Given the abilities of Sindragosa and the fact that Unchained Magic causes Arcane Instability which can stack and then explode after casting (which will kill you if the stack is high enough), I would guess a simple 5x1 isn't going to cut it for her unless you want to die fairly quickly.
That's a random target cast, sort of a "risk/reward" silence. Obviously when it's on you, casting spells as fast as possible is a bad idea. Once Arcane buffet starts stacking I'd guess any cast while it's on you will be death.
Last edited by Ogbar : 01/04/10 at 4:27 PM.
Reason: Punctuation
Definitely. Looks to be an exciting change up from just being able to mindlessly 5x1 though.
<Nite_Moogle> i miss raiding with carebare :< she makes me feel like i am not the only person that hates everyone
Aldriana: I am an asshole, it just so happens that some of my colleagues are even *bigger* assholes.
[R] [85:Neux:2]: i hear if you die on Good Friday they are going to make it where you can't get rezzed until easter sunday
Khazal: Yeah, I don't know about Magic Rainbow Unicorn Land, but here in Reality, Rhyolith is the worst encounter Blizzard has ever designed.
As paladins point out here, Solace is quite overbudget. If you need mana, normal solace may be better than heroic abacus (or at any rate, if you have solaces you may consider passing on abacuses for the other healers, the 245 solace is effectively an ilevel 322 item).
A paladin pointed out to me today that [Sliver of Pure Ice] from 10H only has a 1 minute cooldown unlike the normal version that has a 2 minute cooldown. Anyone know if that is intended? If used on cooldown after enough mana has been used thats an 8 mp5 increase over [Solace of the Defeated] and a 10 spellpower boost. Of course, the Solace is passive and the Sliver requires a use / a bit of time before it can start being used.
With the opening of the next wing ... how good is [Trauma] really? There should be the first drops on US servers later today, right?
Trauma, Frozen Bonespike, Lockjaw and Midnight sun are the only non hit caster one hands from ICC, the later two are mp5 weapons and Frozen bone spike is a crit. weapon.
if your looking for a healing one hand, Trauma would be the weapon you want, have you seen the proc?
Trauma's usefulness will really come down to how much raid damage is going out. ttyl and ogbar have pointed out, we are now getting to the point where there will be AoE aura's and such occuring on several fights. With that said the extra 217hp for 6 seconds would provide a small buffer for all that damage. If nothing else its a 741 Spellpower weapon for those who were unable to get 700+ Spellpower weapons from ToC.
I'd be curious to see if the 217 scales with your spellpower, or if it is static. Did anyone get to see one of these on the PTR?
It almost doesn't even matter how good the proc is. We get the proc in exchange for two secondary stats, only one of which we use to begin with. And other 25-man caster 1H doesn't have haste anyway. It's a 1H with a socket (in Heroic), which is optimal for spellpower. Short of stacking even more spellpower, a weird proc is the only way to squeeze more healing onto a weapon.
And assuming it will be balanced to be vaguely useful for other classes who are giving up more to use it, it will strongly BiS for us.
if your looking for a healing one hand, Trauma would be the weapon you want, have you seen the proc?
Ofc I have seen the proc That's why I was asking.
When someone got it on live (tbh I'm not sure when it actually drops, I'm playing on EU servers but I assumed US servers might have it by now since they are about 10 hours ahead) I'd love to know a few things about how the proc works. Like proc chance and ICD (I did read sometime about 1% and no ICD but no idea if it's true), eventual scaling with SP or talents that increase healing done and things like that. Maybe even a spellpower equivalent of the proc assuming a 5x1 style fight.
Originally Posted by Arawethion
It almost doesn't even matter how good the proc is.
I'd agree if there were only 1handers in the game for us. But there are pretty awesome 2hand staves with tons of SP, spirit and haste on them. Especially the enormous amount of haste on the 2h weapons makes them quite interesting and if the Trauma proc was bad I'd probably use a staff instead.
Ofc I have seen the proc That's why I was asking.
When someone got it on live (tbh I'm not sure when it actually drops, I'm playing on EU servers but I assumed US servers might have it by now since they are about 10 hours ahead) I'd love to know a few things about how the proc works. Like proc chance and ICD (I did read sometime about 1% and no ICD but no idea if it's true), eventual scaling with SP or talents that increase healing done and things like that. Maybe even a spellpower equivalent of the proc assuming a 5x1 style fight.
I'd agree if there were only 1handers in the game for us. But there are pretty awesome 2hand staves with tons of SP, spirit and haste on them. Especially the enormous amount of haste on the 2h weapons makes them quite interesting and if the Trauma proc was bad I'd probably use a staff instead.
Honestly, the proc would need to be bad to the point of useless to not be good. And I highly doubt the heal will scale with SP. And an ICD would seem to be necessary otherwise the proc's uptime would lead to some ridiculous potential healing.
But the formula to compute it's effect on HPS is very basic 217*%uptime*number of people in a 10 yard radius. While the proc is up it will likely be a 1k+ hps increase for fights that encourage raid stacking or if it's in the melee. So I would not be surprised if uptime is only in the 10-20% range, but that's still a very nice hps increase.
The interesting thing about the Trauma is that its proc being good depends on the fight. If the fight requires raid members to be at 10 yards or more it's usefulness drops off quite a bit. Don't be surprised if its a weapon you swap in and out depending on which boss you are fighting. Which is something that no BiS list can account for.
As for staves...I've yet to see one who's spellpower is enough to allow you to use it over a main hand/off hand combo regardless of haste.
I'd agree if there were only 1handers in the game for us. But there are pretty awesome 2hand staves with tons of SP, spirit and haste on them. Especially the enormous amount of haste on the 2h weapons makes them quite interesting and if the Trauma proc was bad I'd probably use a staff instead.
Trauma won't be bad. If it does end up being bad, blizzard will buff it. That is their flavor of the patch right now is weapon proc's.
2H Staff with lot of spirit/sockets is a great alternative if you don't have 258 weapons. Also a note to non BC resto druids. This can be a good staff for regen. Socket it with 2x20 spirit and enchant it with spirit. Using this between transition phases etc. is a great way to obtain regen. I used to have a spirit stick for Illadin (when he did his 30s stun) if I needed regen, or KT in TK because that encounter was full of RP. If there is a point where you are just going to stand around for 10 seconds or more, all this spirit isn't bad to throw on. I assume Lich King is going to be a good RP fight like Illadin, and very long. IF and ONLY IF regen is needed, this isn't a bad idea.
In a perfect world of 277 loot: [Trauma] + [Sundial of Eternal Dusk] (836 + 23 + 63 + 119)
1041 sp & 68 haste
vs. [Dying Light] (837 + 23x3 + 81 + (131 * 0.19)) Wowhead shows two sockets, but MMO-C shows three.
1011.89 & 131 haste
30 Spellpower to pick up 63 haste is worthy of consideration if that extra spellpower can be picked up elsewhere easily and I'll wager it can be without a problem. This is a nice alternative to needing 2x 277 loots and on the off chance that Trauma ends up being better for your raid in the hands of another class it is less selfish as well. Not to mention that you're getting 50 more stamina, a useful progress stat.
Just food for thought, again it just depends on what people see and what they can get. If trauma is not AMAZING on us and I can snag this staff without much competition I will gladly take it over chancing a lost roll on Trauma and waiting for upgrades. I can make it work one way or another.
Edit: It will depend on the socket count, 3 seems like too good to be true and then trading 53 SP to pick up 60 haste is obviously less appealing -- though still not terrible if you can somehow recover it.
<Nite_Moogle> i miss raiding with carebare :< she makes me feel like i am not the only person that hates everyone
Aldriana: I am an asshole, it just so happens that some of my colleagues are even *bigger* assholes.
[R] [85:Neux:2]: i hear if you die on Good Friday they are going to make it where you can't get rezzed until easter sunday
Khazal: Yeah, I don't know about Magic Rainbow Unicorn Land, but here in Reality, Rhyolith is the worst encounter Blizzard has ever designed.
In a perfect world of 277 loot: [Trauma] + [Sundial of Eternal Dusk] (836 + 23 + 63 + 119)
1041 sp & 68 haste
vs. [Dying Light] (837 + 23x3 + 81 + (131 * 0.19)) Wowhead shows two sockets, but MMO-C shows three.
1011.89 & 131 haste
I would assume Heroic is 3 sockets.
The math your missing (if any) is the amazing proc. You obviously know it is good, and most likely have the same math I do.
5x1 : Rejuve every 5 seconds -> WG. Rejuve = 6 ticks x 5 Rejuves = 30 ticks (over 6 seconds). WG = 36 ticks (6 People X 6 Ticks). 66 Ticks/6 seconds = 11 Ticks/1 second. 11% chance in a latency free environment. 10% chance for error, latency, and easy math. 10% chance to get the 6 second heal gives us ~ 60% uptime. Now RNG plays a big role in this equation, and 60% uptime is most likely un-realistic, considering back to back proc's etc.
I am not quite sure how accurate this is, this is just in my head math that I have been basing this off, since I have yet to see it live. Also, I had no idea about dying light. In the loot-lists, I must have overlooked this weapon. I do not see caster DPS wanting this staff over anything MH/OH. I think it would be best (depending on how your loot system worked) to work it out with priest healers and yourself for what you may want. Trauma seems too good for a resto druid, but may not be so bad for a CoH priest. If it proc's of Overhealing, JoL Paladins will be good with this as well.
Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity.
No, you are correct. I'd been comparing Sundial and [Frozen Bonespike] against dying light with 2 sockets when I made that comment. Comparing trauma to a stat stick is hard to quantify but that choice seemed straight forward.
30 Spellpower to pick up 63 haste is worthy of consideration if that extra spellpower can be picked up elsewhere easily and I'll wager it can be without a problem. This is a nice alternative to needing 2x 277 loots and on the off chance that Trauma ends up being better for your raid in the hands of another class it is less selfish as well. Not to mention that you're getting 50 more stamina, a useful progress stat.
Roughly how I looked at, but this only supports Trauma being good. It's nearly as good (~33 sp/haste worse) even completely ignoring the proc. The proc will be tuned to be competitive with the two secondary stats you'd ordinarily find on a weapon--roughly 50-60 each. We should expect the Trauma combo to be significantly better. (I hadn't noticed that they left sockets off of the caster offhands to try to keep staves competitive, but it doesn't really change the result in our case).
For the same reason, it will be more appealing to us than to classes who will miss those stats more.
I wrote testing results for Trauma up from PTR earlier but I think we'll know soon enough how it turns up on live. Most things were as you'd expect but the heal only procced on per-group basis which was highly inconvenient (cutting the potential in perhaps half). That might have been a bug and might have gotten fixed, but with that in mind the proc was about 1.5-2.0% of my effective healing in a very small number of test fights.
Thanks figured I missed something. Obviously the point is moot if Trauma is just amazing for us. Just trying to keep up with other alternatives in case Trauma ends up widely desired or in a world of hate-on-carebare just straight up doesn't drop.
<Nite_Moogle> i miss raiding with carebare :< she makes me feel like i am not the only person that hates everyone
Aldriana: I am an asshole, it just so happens that some of my colleagues are even *bigger* assholes.
[R] [85:Neux:2]: i hear if you die on Good Friday they are going to make it where you can't get rezzed until easter sunday
Khazal: Yeah, I don't know about Magic Rainbow Unicorn Land, but here in Reality, Rhyolith is the worst encounter Blizzard has ever designed.
Here are a few log parses of people who have gotten trauma, I harvested them from official forum skimming but I thought I'd place them here for easy access to those that wish to do some early analysis. The heal is "Fountain of Light"
Roughly how I looked at, but this only supports Trauma being good. It's nearly as good (~33 sp/haste worse) even completely ignoring the proc. The proc will be tuned to be competitive with the two secondary stats you'd ordinarily find on a weapon--roughly 50-60 each. We should expect the Trauma combo to be significantly better. (I hadn't noticed that they left sockets off of the caster offhands to try to keep staves competitive, but it doesn't really change the result in our case).
For the same reason, it will be more appealing to us than to classes who will miss those stats more.
I was wondering if you took into consideration the fact that with Dying light you can use the 277 ilvl crit bracers from Valritha while with Trauma/Sundial the ToGC bracers are still required to hit non CF haste requirements without an inordinate amount of haste gemming and even that requires full heroic gear and 3 reckless gems.
If my math serves me the difference between the two options is actually in favor of Dying light by a little.
Also having looked at Vdub's logs, and granted this is limited data, the proc only accounted for 2.9% of his total raw healing with almost 54% of that 2.9% being overheal. I just dont see that as being all that better than the option of not having to grab two items vs the 1 staff (RNG lords be praised).
It almost doesn't even matter how good the proc is. We get the proc in exchange for two secondary stats, only one of which we use to begin with. And other 25-man caster 1H doesn't have haste anyway. It's a 1H with a socket (in Heroic), which is optimal for spellpower. Short of stacking even more spellpower, a weird proc is the only way to squeeze more healing onto a weapon.
And assuming it will be balanced to be vaguely useful for other classes who are giving up more to use it, it will strongly BiS for us.
I just can't see Trauma beating Val'anyr. That proc has ranged from 8% to 25% of my total healing. That's well over 1000 effective spell power in total on the weapon in best case and at least 850 worst case; how can anything beat that? Are you saying that Trauma is BiS when ignoring Val'anyr or are you saying it's BiS if you can't get Val'anyr? Surely people haven't replaced Val'anyr in TotC.
Re: the 4T9 vs 4T10 discussion
Is it a possibility that the Rejuvenation that 'jumps' to another target is treated either as a Rejuvenation not cast by us or a different spell effect (thus not over writing our current Rejuvenation on the target)?
If it is, Resto 4T10 becomes a viable bonus. Otherwise I can't see how it can compare with the other druid 4T10 set bonuses.
Last edited by blowtorch : 01/08/10 at 6:13 AM.
Reason: edited for clarity
I have spent a lot of dkp on Trauma and honestly I think it will stay in my bank. After I got it I went to a pug in ToC 25 and results are very disappointing. I had around 4500 effective healing at beasts in a fight with a good chunk of raid damage. Overheal was 92%. I also had less then 2000 effective healing at Anub with 93% overhealing. Better results as expected were at twins where, with only 48% overhealing it had 32000 effective healing.
I also have the trinket, Althor's Abacus that seems very good. It does almost as good as Trauma but being a smart heal and the fact that it's a trinket proc (I lose over 100 haste to be able to use Trauma, going well under haste cap with CF, so I expect better results then replacing some regen that I don't need) makes it more valuable in my eyes. Crits for almost 10k and I had it at least once save the tank or someone else, in the few days I've been using it.
I can link some wowmeter logs from the pug where I tested Trauma if anyone is interested.
I have spent a lot of dkp on Trauma and honestly I think it will stay in my bank. After I got it I went to a pug in ToC 25 and results are very disappointing. I had around 4500 effective healing at beasts in a fight with a good chunk of raid damage. Overheal was 92%. I also had less then 2000 effective healing at Anub with 93% overhealing. Better results as expected were at twins where, with only 48% overhealing it had 32000 effective healing.
I also have the trinket, Althor's Abacus that seems very good. It does almost as good as Trauma but being a smart heal and the fact that it's a trinket proc (I lose over 100 haste to be able to use Trauma, going well under haste cap with CF, so I expect better results then replacing some regen that I don't need) makes it more valuable in my eyes. Crits for almost 10k and I had it at least once save the tank or someone else, in the few days I've been using it.
I can link some wowmeter logs from the pug where I tested Trauma if anyone is interested.
I was also fairly disappointed with it after a night of testing in ToGC. In a Twins heroic 25 kill, it healed for a total of 29,000 making up 1.1% of my total healing, Althor's healed for 38,000 at 1.5% of my total healing. Starting to doubt whether it was worth picking up considering how difficult it has now become to juggle items around to keep my haste up.
01/04/10, 4:26 PM
That's why I was asking.
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