When comparing scaling from SP, you need to compare it to other healers, so spriests and locks aren't really relevant. Hots have very high coefficients, with the limiting factor being the number of targets - they can't be spammed on a single target like direct heals. On a hot-friendly fight like Loatheb, rejuving and single-blooming a 10 men raid can produce about 10000HPS in that 3 second heal window. Priests can put out that much healing...but not without CoH.

Well, I'm aiming for about 400 haste rating. Because can't always count on having all buffs, especially in 10-mans :o But beyond that, it does seem more important to achieve consistent RG crits, than faster RG casts.

75% RG crit + Glyph + Living Seed is just mean ;o

100% crit? I like :o

With moonkin aura and a healthy Intel, you will need about 1500 crit rating to max out Regrowth. That's a ton of crit, but I suppose doable. And then Regrowth becomes incredibly potent.

I would just like some quick confirmation, since Wowhead seems to be a bit unclear on it, but judging by the iLevel 213 I assume that [Idol of Awakening] only drops in Naxx25, right?

Correct.

Can someone with sufficient privileges create a new thread concerning Spell Rotations / Healing strategies?

My post count is too low and its bad enough I have to reply to an itemization thread with this crap, but I don't want to add questions about rotations along with it. I dunno, maybe you guys don't care and this is good enough of a place Let me know.

Did some rough calculations, and prior to Malygos this is the crit that's possible:

1600 intel (gear+buffs) ~10% crit
800 crit rating (gear/enchants/buffs) ~ 17 crit
Improved Regrowth/Natural Perfection (talents) 53%
Moonkin Aura 5%

Putting the total at 85% crit for Regrowth. About 40% for Nourish/Healing Touch :o This also doesn't require anything particularly special, except making sure all your gear has some crit rating on it. You should still end up getting plenty of haste and mana regen.

If you really prioritize crit, you can get about another 5% from gear/gems. Now, the fact that we can't reach 100% crit, to me at least, means it's not worth going all-out just yet. But once the Uldar raid comes out, that may very well be the way to go heading into Icecrown.

I would seriously like to see your "doesn't require anything particularly special" gear-set pre Malygos which provides anywhere near 1600 Int (which is around 1330 pre-buffs) without a heavy cost.

We are not Paladins and socketing/gearing everything with 16 Int or 9 SP/8 Int (which it seems like you are doing) in order to get results which butcher our HoTs, our regeneration* and IV (Glyph is needed to make it provide a full mana pool) in order to give us inferior versions of HL and FoL... well it just seems 'wrong'.

* High Int will naturally give us higher Replenishment gains which almost make up for the loss of Spirit.


While I am naturally a RG lover, and someone indifferent about Haste vs Crit.. I think that going above 85-90% crit on RG will end up doing more harm than good unless we end up doing very serious amounts of our healing from direct heals and HoTs end up scaling very very badly (which wont happen).

Hmm you're right, messed my math somewhere. It should be about 1200-1300 intel. Which is a couple percent crit less, but still high. Also this is only about prioritizing crit over haste; not prioritizing crit over anything else. Gems/enchants/gear should all still be spellpower based.

It doesn't seem like we can reach 100% RG crit with what's available. But even with "just" an 80% crit rate, that's nothing to scoff at. We're always using Regrowth. That + Regrowth glyph + living seed proc + Nature's Grace = very mean healing :o In short, standing by my original point. Would rather have 800 crit rating than 800 haste rating.

Edit: the more I think about it, the more it seems we don't need that much spirit. Guess it's nice to give your innervate to someone else. But why should we? Don't the classes which can most benefit from innervate already stack a bunch of spirit/intel? So shouldn't they be fine on their own, and we can save innervate for our own regeneration? If so, then it may be possible to stack crit, while sacrificing some spirit for haste. (to get to the soft cap) Then with replenishment and innervate, we should be able to make up the spirit loss.

Now I'm not considering totally devaluing spirit. Only itemizing no spirit on 3-4 pieces, and using intel/spellpower/haste/crit gear in those slots. Then stacking other gear intel/spirit/spellpower/crit. Does that seem doable? Stacking intel/spellpower/crit as much as possible, while dividing priority equally between spirit/haste. Almost a moonkin itemization, except we give up more haste for spirit.

Not necessarily. Geared properly, we're still extremely efficient--the only time I ever drink is when recovering from a wipe, or if I think I actually might need that last 5% of my mana for the coming boss (which I never do), and we don't even run with Replenishment in our 10-man. Priests, in comparison, are much less efficient at current gear levels, and if I can save my innervate for our healing priest, I will. Shaman and Paladins are generally a waste of an innervate, as the only spirit they'll have on their gear is from any +stats enchants they might have, or the occasional poorly itemized (for them) jewelry.
That leaves DPS classes. Warlocks gain some benefit from spirit now, but they can also Life Tap and should never be asking for an innervate. While the other caster DPS classes don't actively look for spirit on gear to my knowledge, they'll generally end up with some due to WotLK itemization, and there are definitely fights where I've tossed my Innervate on a shadow priest, mage, or boomkin just to get the fight over sooner. I don't see a good reason for us, as possibly the most efficient spirit-based-regen class around right now, to actively gear for extra throughput that we don't need just because we can Innervate ourselves.

Currently (for raiding, where you assume you have Replenish) Int is worth gearing up more than Spirit.
Spirit you just want enough to make your Innervate give you enough mana.
Int will also give you bonus when OO5SR (and Innervate, but as it also increases max mana you tend to be chasing a carrot on a stick) but with the added benefit of getting Replenish almost all the time too.

The "Int > Spi" statements are purely mana based. Int provides very little in terms of throughput for us (no int->sp conversion, and relatively low benefit from crit), so as a pure mana/regen stat, yes, Int will be better assuming Replenishment and little time spent OO5SR. However, whether you need that extra mana is going to be a personal decision dependent more on your healing style, the content you're in, and the healing style and skill of your fellow healers. We can't really answer that for you.

I am trying to determine the answer to a simple question:

How much Haste does it take for a tree druid with Gift of the Earthmother and in a Raid with a Moonkin and a Wrath of Air Totem to reach a 1.0 GCD?

The answer above says 5.34%. I have also seen a post in the simple questions thread that said 9.89% haste with WoA (and I presume NO moonkin) and 15.38% without (I am guessing this means with only Gift of the Earthmother).

Druid: Simple Questions/Simple Answers

But I can not get any of this math to work.

I will try and walk through the math and let people point out all the places where I am wrong.

So - text of Gift of the Earthmother says:

Reduces the base global cooldown of your Rejuvenation, Lifebloom and Wild Growth spells by 20%.

So I am assuming the math here is: 1.5 sec GCD times 20% = 0.3 sec or new Base Global Cooldown of 1.2 seconds.

Next Wowwiki states:

The amount of haste required to reduce the global cooldown to a desired value can be calculated by:

Haste = ( ( BaseCastTime / DesiredCastTime ) - 1) * 100

or Haste = (( 1.2/1.0)-1)*100

So that says I need 20 Haste.

Moonkin Aura says affected targets gain 3% haste.

Wrath of Air Totem says: The totem provides 5% spell haste to all party members within 30 yards.

So that provides me 8 of the 20 haste I need.

This leave me with 12% haste needed or at 32.79 Haste Rating at level 80 (wowwiki source) a need for 393.48 haste Rating.

I am sure I have made an error here but I hopefully provided enough information that someone can tell me where the mistake was, not just that I made one.

------------------


Maybe the root of the issue on math difference is that 50% spell haste is needed to reduce the GCD from 1.5 to 1.0 NOT 33.3% Haste. Again from wowwiki:

To reduce the global cooldown to an arbitrary value of 1 second, it would take 50% haste or a haste rating of:

Level 60 Level 70 Level 80
500 788.5 1639.5



---------------------


Thanks for any assistance.

The moonkin aura and WoA reduce your base GCD.

So we have 1.5*28%=0.42 or a GCD of 1.08 seconds

(1.08/1)-1*100= 8%

Leaving us with 8% or a haste rating of 262.32



Alternatively i can see this.

1.5*28%=0.42 or a GCD of 1.08 seconds

(1.5/1.42)-1*100= 5.6%


Edit: spelling and alternative.

:o As you say, we are the best spirit-based regen class in the game. So using innervate on anyone else will be less than optimal use of that spell. Indeed, the only efficient innervate that even comes close, is using it on a healing priest. But they will already be geared in such a way they don't need a druid to innervate them. So the way things are now, we are gearing a ton of spirit, to provide innervate service to classes that either don't need it and/or can't use it very well. As such, it might be more practical to gear less spirit, and just provide the innervate service to ourselves, since we will get the maximum benefit from it.

I am actually thinking this is the best way to go. Stack intel/spirit/spellpower/crit gear. Except for a few pieces, where you use intel/spellpower/crit/haste gear instead. (just enough to reach haste soft cap)

Wow, its the GotEM GCD mystery again.

In the first post it says how much haste you need for various conditions, the source for that is linked (ok, not really since the author doesn't know how to link individual posts) so here it is http://elitistjerks.com/1001068-post47.html. And yet again that guy has also posted the source of the formula he used to get those numbers (http://elitistjerks.com/990017-post110.html). In that post I have explained how the formula works. If all of that wasn't enough, in this very thread on the previous page (page two for those with a real post/page setting) there is this post that links to http://elitistjerks.com/958293-post638.html which explains how I concluded that GotEM is after haste.

Maybe I should just post this every ~20 or so posts to keep it on the last page because reading the thread, or even just the first post, is obviously out of the question.

I'm not entirely sure if this is the correct forum for this question, if someone could yell at me if I'm wrong that would be great.

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on the replenish and living seed talents. Over the course of a four hour raid replenish is giving back our pali tank approximately 2 full bars of his mana. I'm somewhat dubious as to the value of it given that he doesn't have any real mana issues to begin with (this is also true with rage and runic power for our dk and warrior tanks). I generally keep rejuv up at all times so I'm curious if this seems normal to other people, or if there's some kind of modifier that I'm missing. Or just general thoughts as to whether or not others think its a worthwhile talent, at the moment I'm leaning heavily towards 3/3 brambles might come in handier

As far as living seed goes...regrowth normally accounts for 20-25% of my heals, with the majority of those being cast on the main tank. Living seed is accounting for less then 1%. Have others found that getting a higher crit rating is worthwhile to help living seed proc more often? (I have a extreme penchant for spirit at the moment beyond making my meta happy, and run with 11.8% unbuffed, no talents in natural perfection)

Benefit of replenish depends so much on different bosses and the raid composition also afflicts it. Pretty much the best case scenario for replenish is Sapphiron with 2 or more resto druids with replenish. On our latest Sapphiron kill i was trying to take a feel on the upcoming 6 sec cd on WG, and thus using much more rejuvenation. With 3 resto druids, although one of us mainly used WG, best single player mana gain was ~3k over 5 min fight, not a big deal but still noticeable amount.

Living seed apparently is bugged at the moment, and thus not healing as much it should. Also its pretty hard to find a place where living seed can show it's full potential. Only thing coming to my mind is one pull gone bad in heroic Halls of Stone where i could just spam regrowth and the crits didn't heal the tank to full, crit after crit. 8k regrowths + 2.4k living seeds were quite nice there. But in raids with multiple healers it just wont happen. And the crit gear; It depends how you heal. Are you a wannabe paladin or do you just roll hots?

I'm quite regrowth happy and the extra crit and haste benefit it a bit, but i'm pretty much all-in for spellpower and regen. At best living seed is 1-2% of my total healing done, i barely use nourish, and if i cast HT it's always coupled with NS, and boosting them with crit gear just doesn't seem right.

Replenish is not really worth it IMO. The effect is very marginal. Warrior and DK tanks get enough rage/runic power without it. Paladin tanks will benefit a little, but not anything worth three talent points. This is my spec at the moment. Can move one point from tranquility over to Natural Perfection if you don't use it :o

As far as itemization, the standard line will be: stack spellpower as much as possible. Other than that, look for intel, spirit, and enough haste to reach the 1-sec GCD. Crit shouldn't be on your radar until you reach 1-sec GCD.

Once you reach 1-sec GDC, there are different ways you can go. Most people will suggest stacking mana regeneration, till basically you never use a mana potion or innervate :p Personally, I think that's too much regen. So I'd start replacing some spirit with crit instead.

Living Seed is bugged right now, making it hard to judge its value. But LS still does 1-2% healing, and that's mainly on the tank. You'd need over 100 spellpower to replace the healing done by LS. (maybe someone can work out the exact numbers :o) It's not an insignificant amount. In any event, once you reach the haste soft-cap and finish stacking spellpower, crit is the main way to increase healing output. Spirit won't give you a ton of healing power, just give you more endurance. But if you can last with innervating yourself and a mana pot, then I would suggest strengthening healing via crit instead.

Replenish seems worth the points if you use rejuv as a raidheal like I do. Not so much useful for tanks as getting your casters some free mana. Besides, where the hell else am I gonna put those points? Naturalist, Tranquil Spirit, and the rest are all pretty garbage for my healing style (i.e. HT on Loatheb and that's about it, and it could be a 5-second cast for that).

Yeah, I run with replenish (and rejuv glyph) because more than 60% of my total healing done is usually with rejuvenation. Many fights I am putting it on somebody almost every cooldown. Anybody who is either missing health, or is likely to be missing health within 5 seconds, I slap on a rejuv.

As for the competing talents, I only use HT with NS, and I can go an entire run without using nourish. Tranquility rules in 5 mans, but I can't justify the points just for that. Given the way I heal most encounters (rejuv on everybody), replenish is what I've been choosing.

And therefore, I value crit very low and spellpower very high.

I think that our talent Replenishment is a great.

You have to look at it from the right way though, to see the benefit. Tanks almost always have full Rage/RP/Mana bars from the amount of damage/healing they receive, so it naturally won't benefit them much. The dps, however, is somewhat more limited in their damage dealing resources. Energy/Mana (I can't comment much on DPS Warriors/DKs and their Rage/RP issues) are resources that need to be managed, and giving extra resources to a dps class is a direct increase to the possible amount of damage that they can do. If the dps can dish out more damage, the fight doesn't last as long, so there's less of a chance for something to go catastrophically wrong and wipe the raid (Soul Charge(s) on Archimonde//Illidan P2 tank getting Dark Barrage, etc).

Now, granted, the value of Replenishment rests quite a bit on how much you use Rejuv, but since its my main raid healing spell, I get quite a bit of utility out of it, although your mileage may vary. As a side not, although I can't confirm it atm, but commenters on Wowhead are saying that the buff will proc even if people are at full health and the ticks do no healing.

Unfortunately, I haven't been using WWS (need to start though...) so I can't post any reports. Looking through some of the WWS reports that have been posted though, I can't seem to find this being recorded though, which is odd because I'm pretty sure it shows up in the combat log. Would anyone who is maybe more familiar with WWS be able to help me out here?