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Old 10/15/09, 1:44 PM   #991
Kirbie44
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Night Elf Druid
 
Magtheridon
Originally Posted by Orangekrush View Post
I'm not sure if this has been talked about already or not but i cant find it in the thread. Is the T9 4 piece set bonus worth it or should i go for other gear that gives better stats and keep the 2 piece set bonus
Depends on your play style and role. Basically yes. With the new changes coming to druids, don't be afraid to take haste gear that isn't tier to keep around. You are going to need it after 3.3. I wouldn't let it get DE'd for the greater good.

Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity.

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Old 10/16/09, 12:02 PM   #992
shibbytastic
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Stonemaul
Gemming post 3.3

How are you planning on gemming in early patch 3.3?

It is likely that I won't be reaching the haste cap based on gear alone unless I decide to forfeit my T9 4 set bonus, because of this I am debating on switching my SP gems to Haste until I hit the cap.

As I see it haste will scale very well in blanket hotting situations, and will also be better in reduced target situations in which I plan on equipping the new rejuv glyph. Does this seem like a reasonable plan of action?

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Old 10/16/09, 1:59 PM   #993
thefool808
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Druid
 
Ysera
If 3/3 Celestial Focus is needed to reach the haste cap, then would the best CF build avoid Nature's Grace entirely to avoid Nourish clipping? If that is the case, it would mean that the last point removed (when haste gets high enough) from CF would also free up the four other points added to the Balance tree to get to the fourth tier in the first place. I'm not intuitively convinced that last point (four points) is really worth 1% haste.

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Old 10/16/09, 2:20 PM   #994
modicumofrespite
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Fizzcrank
4 set bonus meta

Now that Rejuv can crit, does Chaotic Skyflare (+21 Crit + 3% Increased Critical Damage) become the new meta of choice?

Insightful Earthsiege Diamond (+21 Intellect + Chance to restore mana on spellcast) was the old meta standard,

a case has been made for Ember Skyflare Diamond (+25 Spell Power + 2% Intellect) and perhaps we can all agree that

Revitalizing Skyflare Diamond (+8 Mana every 5 seconds + 3% Increased Critical Healing Effect) is a little weak (mana hasn't scaled)?

Assuming 50% Rejuv healing, 3k SpellPower and 30% base crit,

Chaotic stands to increase overall healing approximately [1+(0.5x0.307x1.545)]/[1+(.5x0.3x1.5)] ~ 0.9%

Ember stands to increase overall healing approximately [25/3k] ~ 0.8%

This considers only the effect on 4-set Rejuv. and ignores other spell bonuses and also ignores mana regen. I think Ember looks best overall, what does the community think?

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Old 10/16/09, 2:30 PM   #995
Kirbie44
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Magtheridon
Revitalizing Skyflare Diamond - Spell - World of Warcraft

Treecalcs let this do your math for you It is really nice.

Edit: Revitalizing seems to look promising in the spreadsheet.

Last edited by Kirbie44 : 10/16/09 at 2:36 PM.

Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity.

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Old 10/16/09, 3:07 PM   #996
Erdluf
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Night Elf Druid
 
Echo Isles
Originally Posted by modicumofrespite View Post
Now that Rejuv can crit, does Chaotic Skyflare (+21 Crit + 3% Increased Critical Damage) become the new meta of choice?
I'm pretty sure Chaotic boosts only damage, not heals. Revitalizing is the one you'll want for throughput with Rejuv crits.

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Old 10/16/09, 4:32 PM   #997
 Hamlet
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by thefool808 View Post
If 3/3 Celestial Focus is needed to reach the haste cap, then would the best CF build avoid Nature's Grace entirely to avoid Nourish clipping? If that is the case, it would mean that the last point removed (when haste gets high enough) from CF would also free up the four other points added to the Balance tree to get to the fourth tier in the first place. I'm not intuitively convinced that last point (four points) is really worth 1% haste.
Well, without NG, Nourish will have the same haste cap as Rejuv (856 without CF, 735 with). So if you're at 735 from gear, I suppose you could make a case for taking CF and not NG. But, there's nothing else useful in the Balance tree to put points into, and NG will help Regrowth, so there's still no reason not to take it. Also, if you're planning to use both Nourish and Rejuv heavily, you want both Living Seed and Revitalize, which makes it hard to get CF anyway.

This is why my leaning is towards emphasizing Regrowth over Nourish for raid healing. The point in NG are quite accessible, and Regrowth benefits from them greatly while still sharing the gains from haste that you get for Rejuv.

Originally Posted by shibbytastic View Post
How are you planning on gemming in early patch 3.3?

It is likely that I won't be reaching the haste cap based on gear alone unless I decide to forfeit my T9 4 set bonus, because of this I am debating on switching my SP gems to Haste until I hit the cap.

As I see it haste will scale very well in blanket hotting situations, and will also be better in reduced target situations in which I plan on equipping the new rejuv glyph. Does this seem like a reasonable plan of action?
There's an annoying antisynergy here between haste gear and Glyph of Rapid Rejuvenation. Let me try to describe:
1) Haste and spellpower both provide comparable amounts of throughput after 3.3, with haste providing slightly more. The difference is that spellpower makes our Rejuv stronger while leaving the number of targets constant, while haste adds targets. So gemming for haste is better for "spread" healing, but gemming for spellpower is better for "focused" healing.
2) Glyph of Rapid Rejuvenation, however, causes you to heal fewer targets (more "focus"). Moreover, it eliminates the "spreading" effect of each additional point of haste (because the reduced duration exactly cancels the reduced cast time).

So if you're healing a fight where you want to achieve max HPS spread out over many targets in a raid, you'll stack haste and avoid the Glyph. Where you're interested in Rejuvs that tick more powerfully, haste vs. spellpower is a wash--they both leave the numbers of targets you can simultaneously HoT constant while increasing Rejuv's HPS while ticking. I think there's some awkwardness here in the way the Glyph causes haste to scale.

If this all remains the way it is though, I'll probably be inclined to gem haste up to cap, and then swap the Glyph in or out depending on how much I want to spread my healing at a particular fight.


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Old 10/16/09, 4:48 PM   #998
slourette
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
Ok, so my spreadsheet is mostly done. I will post it when I finish it up and figure out how to do that...
With these unbuffed stats:

SP 2894
Int 1163
Spirit 1166
Haste 421
Crit 413
MP5 207 (from gear)
MP5 872 (not casting)
MP5 539 (while casting)

Talents include assume all of the core talent, with no NG or Living Seed (working on it) and Natural Perfection (done but not included)

And this spell usage

45% Rejuv
25% WG
15% LB
10% Nourish
5% Regrowth

I get these stat weights for 3.2:
MP5: 1
SP: 0.9
Int: 0.586 (0.643 with 4pT9)
Spirit: 0.577
Haste: 0.111
Crit: 0.041 (0.223 with 4pT9)

And these stat weights for 3.3:
MP5: 1
SP: 0.9
Int: 0.586 (0.643 with 4pT9)
Spirit: 0.577
Haste: 0.965
Crit: 0.041 (0.223 with 4pT9)

My model assumes a 6 minute fight, fully buffed. It currently does not model living seed, Nature's Grace, or the negative impact of haste on mana regen. The first will probably have negligible effects, the second will slightly increase the value of crit (you shouldn't have any anyways) and slightly decrease the value of haste (nourish GCD clipping), and the third will will only slightly lower the value of haste. It also ignores the fact that 1 % haste will not increase your healing by 1% due to a cooldown on WG, which has the highest healing/sec cast time.

Conclusion: Start trying to pick up all the haste gear you can. The more you get, the smaller this nerf becomes.
Spirit/Haste > MP5/Haste > Haste/Crit > Spirit/Crit > Mp5/Crit
It surpasses spirit, Mp5, and int as secondary stats, and is comparable to SP. We will probably want to use the Reckless (SP/haste) gems in yellow sockets for a socket bonus of SP,Int,Spirit, or Haste.

This also assumes that we will have the same healing percentages. If we use Rejuv less because of the nerf, the value of haste will only go up, since relative to haste, rejuv scales better with SP than any other spell. As a side note, these numbers are much more sensitive to spell distribution than to actual stats. We will also probably be using Regrowth more and nourish less (except tank healing)

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Old 10/16/09, 6:40 PM   #999
Fallenangel
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Chromaggus (EU)
I'm not sure how you are evaluating haste's effect on our throughput. I assume this is due to the glyph, but still it depends on the number of targets. The HPCT of rejuv is the same with or without the glyph. It's more of a focused vs spread approach like Halmet said.
The major awkwardness I see with the glyph would be the /cancelaura Bloodlust button I'll probably add to my bars. Changing our haste midfight from BL or procs isn't gonna be fun.

In other news:
Rejuvenation: The base duration on all ranks of this spell is now 15 seconds.

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Old 10/16/09, 10:12 PM   #1000
 Hamlet
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Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
In other news:
Rejuvenation: The base duration on all ranks of this spell is now 15 seconds.
That's good. As I said above, leaving in the GOTEM nerf and reverting the Rejuv one seems like a good solution all around.

Among other things, it doesn't upheave our playstyle quite so much, but should make Regrowth a nice option to add in for more common usage.


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Old 10/17/09, 8:54 PM   #1001
Avena
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Troll Druid
 
Nathrezim (EU)
Originally Posted by Illyria View Post
That's not quite accurate. The equation has to be:

Old casttime / (haste effects multiplied) = new casttime

-> 1.5 / (1.03 * 1.05 * 1.1 * x) = 1
-> x = 1.5 (1.03 * 1.05 * 1.1) = 1.26 = 26% haste
26 * 32,79 = ~ 856 haste rating
So, with Celestial Focus, this should be:

x = 1.5 / (1.03*1.03*1.05*1.1) = 1.224 =22.4% haste
22.4 * 32.79 = ~ 735 haste rating

Am I right there?


[edit]Corrections.

Last edited by Avena : 10/18/09 at 7:18 AM.

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Old 10/17/09, 9:43 PM   #1002
 Hamlet
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Mal'Ganis
Rejuv crits don't proc NG.

e: Also, if you want accurate haste caps, don't round haste values to a full percent.


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Old 10/18/09, 7:19 AM   #1003
Avena
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Nathrezim (EU)
Thanks alot. Edited in the post above.

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Old 10/21/09, 12:08 AM   #1004
Sioned
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Bleeding Hollow
Posted on mmo-champion:

Item - Icecrown 25 Normal Healer Trinket 2 - Each time your spells heal a target you have a chance to cause another nearby friendly target to be instantly healed for 5550 to 6450.

Wonder if it procs of a HoT tick

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Old 10/21/09, 10:12 AM   #1005
Kirbie44
Piston Honda
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Magtheridon
Originally Posted by Sioned View Post
Posted on mmo-champion:

Item - Icecrown 25 Normal Healer Trinket 2 - Each time your spells heal a target you have a chance to cause another nearby friendly target to be instantly healed for 5550 to 6450.

Wonder if it procs of a HoT tick
Even if it does, and it is a smart heal, it will most likely have a 45 second Internal Cool Down. Does the Ony trinkets set bonus have an internal CD?

Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity.

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