Restoration Itemization - Page 68

shibbytastic · 10/22/09, 12:47 PM

I've been working on collecting haste pieces since the news of the GOTEM change was announced. My current plan is to keep 4t9 and with a little luck wear haste pieces in every other slot and make up the the difference to the cap with gems.

Using this gearing strategy will give me a very low crit rate mitigating the value of 4t9. I'm wondering if I would give myself better healing output by forgoing my 4t9 for two additional haste pieces allowing me to use more pure SP gems.

Fallenangel · 10/22/09, 12:56 PM

If you're going for 4t9 and lack on haste your best bet would be to get some haste/crit items. That way you are trading spirit for haste and can avoid gemming for it.

Hatesfury · 10/22/09, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Well, without NG, Nourish will have the same haste cap as Rejuv (856 without CF, 735 with).

There's an annoying antisynergy here between haste gear and Glyph of Rapid Rejuvenation. Let me try to describe:
1) Haste and spellpower both provide comparable amounts of throughput after 3.3, with haste providing slightly more. The difference is that spellpower makes our Rejuv stronger while leaving the number of targets constant, while haste adds targets. So gemming for haste is better for "spread" healing, but gemming for spellpower is better for "focused" healing.
2) Glyph of Rapid Rejuvenation, however, causes you to heal fewer targets (more "focus"). Moreover, it eliminates the "spreading" effect of each additional point of haste (because the reduced duration exactly cancels the reduced cast time).

So if you're healing a fight where you want to achieve max HPS spread out over many targets in a raid, you'll stack haste and avoid the Glyph. Where you're interested in Rejuvs that tick more powerfully, haste vs. spellpower is a wash--they both leave the numbers of targets you can simultaneously HoT constant while increasing Rejuv's HPS while ticking. I think there's some awkwardness here in the way the Glyph causes haste to scale.

If this all remains the way it is though, I'll probably be inclined to gem haste up to cap, and then swap the Glyph in or out depending on how much I want to spread my healing at a particular fight.

I'm actually really liking the changes, and see it basically making druid healing a 2 spec type of deal. Since you can easily reach 730 haste with current normal gear (totc 10\25), most of us should be able to spec into CF on day one of 3.3 and be haste capped. Sitting at the haste cap with 3\3 CF would leave us with 2 distinct build. 3\3 CF, 3\3 revitalize for raid healing, and 0\3 CF 3\3 living seed, 3\5 TS, 5\5 NB with rejuv glyph for tank healing since the extra .1 cast time should have minimal impact on tank healing... Also for the raid healing spec, once we've reached the 850 cap, when then have the ability to drop NG to pick up useful talents in resto such as barksin and maxing out NB for spot heals.

While some people sporting lots of 245 gear stacked with crit for the 4t9 might have some regearing to do, and might even loose some SP going back after the haste gear... i think the change puts us back where i like us (and think we should br), which is a volume healing, opposed to a quality healer (aka pally). Faster rejuv, faster RG, faster nourish makes us a volume tank healer, and GCD rejuv spam with nourish\RG spot heals at\near GCD makes us volume raid healers.... I'm excited for 3.3 personally.

thrillz · 10/23/09, 5:01 AM

What do you guys think of Shiny shard of the Flame + Shiny shard of the scale. Any numbers on the "cauterizing heal".
Also does anyone know if you can combine 25-man version with 10-man version and still get the set bonuss?

Jocar · 10/23/09, 5:40 AM

you can't combine 10er version with the one from ony25.

to show you some numbers. during alle 3 bosses and their trash in wintergrasp:
it procct 7 times! my max. crit was 4,5k.
set is Shiny Shard of the Gods - Item Set - World of Warcraft
its around 1% of you total heal overall.

the spellpower is nice, but not the heal procc.
could be better for dps. but i don't know.

thrillz · 10/23/09, 5:48 AM

Originally Posted by Jocar

you can't combine 10er version with the one from ony25.

to show you some numbers. during alle 3 bosses and their trash in wintergrasp:
it procct 7 times! my max. crit was 4,5k.
set is Shiny Shard of the Gods - Item Set - World of Warcraft
its around 1% of you total heal overall.

the spellpower is nice, but not the heal procc.
could be better for dps. but i don't know.

so I guess it wouldn't be better then Binding stone [heroic] + Solace of the fallen

Jocar · 10/23/09, 6:30 AM

i can't answer your question for you play style and stats.
if you need mana reg, then the stone is a good choice. but till 3.3 sp>all.

so [Show of Faith]or [Solace of the Fallen] or other good sp trinkets like thorim10 hm,...

could be better. just read wowhead or wowforums for discussion.
but be ready to equip [Spark of Hope]

Kirbie44 · 10/23/09, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Jocar

i can't answer your question for you play style and stats.
if you need mana reg, then the stone is a good choice. but till 3.3 sp>all.

so [Show of Faith]or [Solace of the Fallen] or other good sp trinkets like thorim10 hm,...

could be better. just read wowhead or wowforums for discussion.
but be ready to equip [Spark of Hope]

The set gives you 98 MP5 and 250 spell power. That is very awesome. It makes each trinket give 49 MP5 and 125 spell power. Assuming you don't have access to the Solace's, these are two very powerful trinkets and are easy to obtain. However, ToC 25 is easily as pug-able for the trinket as Ony 25. If you are indeed need of regen, Spark of hope is by far one of the best trinkets out there. It's equip alone is amazing. The Binding stone I am not a fan of. I really don't like its use, and I am not much of a fan for on use trinkets as a healer. Spell power with a MP5/Regen sort of proc is nice, and usually what I aim for. IDS is still one of the top trinkets in the game, and I am still denied of getting it

.

stillnotking · 10/27/09, 2:00 AM

Originally Posted by thrillz

What do you guys think of Shiny shard of the Flame + Shiny shard of the scale. Any numbers on the "cauterizing heal".
Also does anyone know if you can combine 25-man version with 10-man version and still get the set bonuss?

Presumably you can combine the ilvl 245 and 232 versions for the set bonus, since you can do that with other sets. I have not seen it done with this particular set, though.

The set is underwhelming. Cauterizing Heal is essentially useless -- it's a weak HOT on a 45-second ICD -- and stat wise you can do better with other trinkets (you'll pry my Solace out of my cold, dead, err... branches).

Fallenangel · 10/27/09, 7:43 AM

The set bonuses on the 232 and the 245 are not the same so mixing them isn't likely to work.
Maybe if you have one 232 and one 245, you get the weaker bonuses - but I kinda doubt it works like that.
Very nice alt trinkets, would be nice to know whether you can mix or if anyone has some of these.
The HP regen portion can also come in handy in a certain ToC fight.

mrx · 11/02/09, 4:29 PM

Ok I'm tring to understand haste, for both the current haste cap and the future 3.3 one.

WoWwiki
Casting speed - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
says 32.79 haste rating= 1% haste

Also to find the % haste required to get to 1GCD it says the following equation is used

Haste = ( ( BaseCastTime / DesiredCastTime ) - 1) * 100
For example: 100% haste = ( ( 1.5s / .75s ) - 1) * 100

using that Equation to find the GCD I get the following

((1.5/1) -1) *100=50%

however from the Original poster of this thread "Norfair" (in his haste section)

it seems the amount actually required to get the the hastecap is48.6%

Wrath of Air only(it gives 5% btw)
0/5 GotE = ~42.9% Haste = ~1407 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~37.12% =~1217 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~31.41% =~1030 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~25.71% =~843 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~19.98% =~655 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~14.27% =~468 Haste Rating

This is the first problem I have, how did it go from 50% to 42.9% with just Wrath of Air Totem

Anyway assuming this amount to be accurate(the following calculattion is for 3.3, 5 Points in GotEM)

I assumed to calculate the haste cap i would first need to reduce the %s of haste we get from other sources
50%-15%-7.5%-4.5%=23%

note, 15% is from GotEM as 10% of 1.5 sec is 15%, 7.5% is the 5% of Wrath of Air totem, and 4.5% is the 3% from retri/moonkin aura

Now a fellow Resto druid told me that this is wrong because the totem and retri/moonkin aura are not additive but multiplicative, mind someone explaing this to me, because I could not understand what he meant at all.

Also I'm taking it for granted that % haste from each of these buffs/talents is increased by the fact that the GCD is 1.5ec (10% becoming 15% etc) but i dont know if they truely are increased in that way or that amount(from the original poster's number i am sure not, so how do they work than???)

anyway after finding out the % needed fully raid buffed, I'm guessing we multiply that by 32.79(haste rating for 1% haste) to find the amount needed to be haste caped.

If anyone can please explain to me these questions, I would be most grateful, please dont just give me the hastecap, I want to be able to understand how you got to that number myself. TY anyone who takes there time to read this.

• Hamlet · 11/02/09, 5:24 PM

Cast time of a spell (or GCD) is given by:

BaseCastTime/(HasteBuffA*HasteBuffB*HasteBuffC* . . . *(1 + HasteRating/3279)). Where HasteBuffA, etc., are %-based buffs from talents and raid buffs. GotEM is weird since it reduces BaseCastTime.

Right now, with 20% GotEM and all raid buffs (WoA, Imp. Moonkin Aura), the GCD with 0 haste is:

1.5*0.8/(1.05*1.03) = 1.1096. The haste cap is therefore 0.1096*3279 = 359.3.

Elorael · 11/02/09, 6:07 PM

Originally Posted by mrx

This is the first problem I have, how did it go from 50% to 42.9% with just Wrath of Air Totem

1.5/1.05 = 1.429

Originally Posted by mrx

Anyway assuming this amount to be accurate(the following calculattion is for 3.3, 5 Points in GotEM)

I assumed to calculate the haste cap i would first need to reduce the %s of haste we get from other sources
50%-15%-7.5%-4.5%=23%

note, 15% is from GotEM as 10% of 1.5 sec is 15%, 7.5% is the 5% of Wrath of Air totem, and 4.5% is the 3% from retri/moonkin aura

Now a fellow Resto druid told me that this is wrong because the totem and retri/moonkin aura are not additive but multiplicative, mind someone explaing this to me, because I could not understand what he meant at all.

Also I'm taking it for granted that % haste from each of these buffs/talents is increased by the fact that the GCD is 1.5ec (10% becoming 15% etc) but i dont know if they truely are increased in that way or that amount(from the original poster's number i am sure not, so how do they work than???)

anyway after finding out the % needed fully raid buffed, I'm guessing we multiply that by 32.79(haste rating for 1% haste) to find the amount needed to be haste caped.

If anyone can please explain to me these questions, I would be most grateful, please dont just give me the hastecap, I want to be able to understand how you got to that number myself. TY anyone who takes there time to read this.

You can't take 10% of 1.5 and call it 15%... Otherwise you have to take 50% of 1.5 and call it 75%. :-p Percentages don't increase by what they are working on. 10% of 1.5 is still 10% and 10% of Twenty Billion is still 10%.

AFAIK the 3.3 calc is:

1.5 (Base GCD) / (1.03 (3% from CF/Ret) * 1.05 (5% from WoA Totem) * 1.10 (10% from GotEM) = 1.2608

26.08% Haste = 855.1632

mrx · 11/03/09, 10:10 AM

ty both for your replies, you have helped me a lot

Also by what you posted, will the new GotEM(3.3) not lower the BaseGCD??

btw wat do you think will be better

getttng 20%(or more if possible) crit unbuffed for 4 T9 set bonus or

having less crit but having the Haste cap(or close to it)

Or would u keep all ur crit gear but gem as much haste as possible(loosing int/SP)

cuddlekin · 11/03/09, 4:15 PM

3.3
Haste Required:
32.79 haste rating increases your haste by 1%. If you have Gift of the Earthmother, you need 36.36% haste to get to a 1 second global cooldown, or 1192.36 haste rating. Wrath of Air totem provides 5% haste and improved Moonkin/Swift Retribution aura provides 3% haste. Here is a list of the amount of haste rating you need with these buffs to get 1 sec GCDs

Wrath of Air and Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura (with 3/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~34.66% Haste = ~1137 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~32.02% = ~1050 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~29.48% = ~967 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~27.03% = ~887 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~24.68% = ~810 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~22.42% = ~735 Haste Rating

Wrath of Air and Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura (with 2/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~35.98% Haste = ~1180 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~33.31% = ~1093 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~30.75% = ~1009 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~28.28% = ~928 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~25.90% = ~850 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~23.62% = ~775 Haste Rating

Wrath of Air and Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura (with 1/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~37.32% Haste = ~1224 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~34.63% = ~1136 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~32.04% = ~1051 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~29.55% = ~969 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~27.15% = ~891 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~24.84% = ~815 Haste Rating

Wrath of Air only (with 3/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~38.70% Haste = ~1269 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~35.98% = ~1180 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~33.36% = ~1094 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~30.85% = ~1012 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~28.42% = ~932 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~26.09% = ~856 Haste Rating

Wrath of Air only (with 2/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~40.06% Haste = ~1314 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~37.31% = ~1224 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~34.67% = ~1137 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~32.13% = ~1054 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~29.68% = ~974 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~27.32% = ~896 Haste Rating

Wrath of Air only (with 1/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~41.44% Haste = ~1359 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~38.67% = ~1268 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~36.00% = ~1181 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~33.44% = ~1097 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~30.97% = ~1016 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~28.58% = ~938 Haste Rating

Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura only (with 3/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~41.39% Haste = ~1358 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~38.62% = ~1267 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~35.95% = ~1179 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~33.39% = ~1095 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~30.92% = ~1014 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~28.54% = ~936 Haste Rating

Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura only (with 2/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~42.78% Haste = ~1403 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~39.98% = ~1311 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~37.28% = ~1223 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~34.69% = ~1138 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~32.20% = ~1056 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~29.80% = ~978 Haste Rating

Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura only (with 1/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~44.19% Haste = ~1149 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~41.36% = ~1357 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~38.64% = ~1268 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~36.03% = ~1182 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~33.51% = ~1099 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~31.08% = ~1020 Haste Rating

No outside buffs at all (only 3/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~45.63% Haste = ~1497 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~42.78% = ~1403 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~40.03% = ~1313 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~37.39% = ~1226 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~34.84% = ~1143 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~32.39% = ~1063 Haste Rating

No outside buffs at all (only 2/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~47.06% Haste = ~1544 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~44.18% = ~1449 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~41.40% = ~1358 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~38.73% = ~1271 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~36.17% = ~1186 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~33.69% = ~1105 Haste Rating

No outside buffs at all (only 1/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~48.52% Haste = ~1591 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~45.60% = ~1496. Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~42.80% = ~1404 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~40.11% = ~1316 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~37.51% = ~1231 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~35.01% = ~1149 Haste Rating

Wrath of Air and Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura Only
0/5 GotE = ~38.70% Haste = ~1269 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~35.98% = ~1180 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~33.36% = ~1094 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~30.85% = ~1012 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~28.42% = ~932 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~26.10% = ~856 Haste Rating