Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12/12/08, 3:58 AM   #106
Anaram
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
Originally Posted by Adriel View Post
There's really no reason to be casting 100% of the time. As druids, the strength of our healing comes from HOTs, which heal when we're not casting.
Personally I disagree with this at least. In many 25-man raids in many encounters there's no reason to ever stop casting other than lack of mana. As long as you got mana to throw around there's almost always* some value in casting rejuvenation on someone who does not previously have it (and in 25-mans there's always someone unlike in 10-mans). With top end gear and decent regen you should have the mana to chaincast for extended periods.

Offline
Old 12/12/08, 4:59 AM   #107
Adriel
Banned
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Arygos
Originally Posted by Anaram View Post
Personally I disagree with this at least. In many 25-man raids in many encounters there's no reason to ever stop casting other than lack of mana. As long as you got mana to throw around there's almost always* some value in casting rejuvenation on someone who does not previously have it (and in 25-mans there's always someone unlike in 10-mans). With top end gear and decent regen you should have the mana to chaincast for extended periods.
As I said, ithat's acceptable when you outgear the encounter. (ie. have beaten Naxx more than a few times :o) But otherwise there's no reason.

Blizzard doesn't tune these encounters with the expectation healers are going to be chaincasting 100% of the time. Not mostly anyway. They do expect players to breathe once if awhile.

Offline
Old 12/12/08, 9:05 AM   #108
Anaram
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
Originally Posted by Adriel View Post
As I said, ithat's acceptable when you outgear the encounter. (ie. have beaten Naxx more than a few times :o) But otherwise there's no reason.
I don't really see why outgearing an encounter should make you cast more instead of less. Mana pools at T7 are perfectly suitable for chain casting in a wide variety of encounters so why should Blizzard expect healers not to do it?

Offline
Old 12/12/08, 12:54 PM   #109
Adriel
Banned
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Arygos
Originally Posted by Anaram View Post
I don't really see why outgearing an encounter should make you cast more instead of less. Mana pools at T7 are perfectly suitable for chain casting in a wide variety of encounters so why should Blizzard expect healers not to do it?
You're saying you don't see how outgearing an encounter makes you cast more. And yet you're also saying with T7 you expect people to chaincast. :o

At this point in the expansion, anyone who has T7 gear outgears everything. Raid difficulty is undertuned for the gear that's currently available.

Outgearing an encounter makes you cast more because you just don't worry about mana. You can spam in a pinch, you can pre-cast HOTs on everything, you can overheal 50% of the time, and you still won't die. Basically you just brute force your way through it. If you are undergeared however, or rather geared at the level appropriate to the encounter, then you have to pick your heals. Time your ticks, limit your targets, conserve mana. You can't just put HoTs on everything ;p

Last edited by Adriel : 12/12/08 at 1:01 PM.

Offline
Old 12/12/08, 11:51 PM   #110
Paininabox
Piston Honda
 
Paininabox's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Runetotem
Nature's Splendor increases the length of the hots, and consequently the number of ticks you gain.

Unfortunately, the only thing haste does for us in terms of hots is to decrease our GCD, which is further made less-than-fabulous by the fact that Gift of the Earthmother takes us almost to the cap already. This is why druids don't much like haste, because we gain like tidbits compared to the benefit we could receive if they reitemized the gear more optimally for us. For our casted heals, haste is nice, but the majority's playstyle hasn't adjusted much past the "MORE HOTS!" mentality of BC. I expect blizzard will change something about haste so it will actually be noticably beneficial, such as the things you suggest in your question. Or, they could leave us out to dry. I hope not.

Ticks of all hots do not crit. This is why your friends are probably passing on crit rating, because they're still playing mostly with hots and they gain almost nothing from it. I do not know about Living Seed, I have not done much testing with it as of yet.

Of course playstyle will dictate gear choice. If you think glyphed HT is the greatest thing since sliced bread, you will probably like crit rating more than the trees that like to run circles around the raid while chucking out hots like rain.

Level 80 Restoration Druid Spreadsheet here.
(v1.41)

Offline
Old 12/13/08, 7:53 AM   #111
Aicha
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Azshara (EU)
Living Seed isn't that good in my opinion.
I logged three of our 25-naxx Raids and I healed something around 150k in every Raid with it.
This is because of the way Living Seed heals:
LS heals when someone is receiving another hit, for most topped of tanks it works out as a heal at about 99-100% effectivly healing ~nothing.
For raidheal after aoe LS seems to be as effective as on tanks, because a critical regrowth/glyphed HT brings the hp of your target to a point where LS heals for small amounts.
At least thats what I thought after analysing the Wws Logs.

Offline
Old 12/13/08, 10:16 AM   #112
Playered
Soda Popinski
 
Playered's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Living Seed is currently bugged and *should* be fixed in 3.0.8 - needs confirmation if it has been.

I wouldn't base your value of the talent on current reports as it is rather worthless until fixed (and who knows, it might remain somewhat useless then too).

Great Britain Offline
Old 12/13/08, 1:43 PM   #113
Paininabox
Piston Honda
 
Paininabox's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Runetotem
I have written a mana regeneration analysis document that attempts to mathematically determine the value of intellect and spirit versus mp5 in order to make accurate gear decisions. It's nine pages long, divided into two sections. The first section is the in-depth mathematical proof of my formulae, and the second section is designed for the average wow player to understand and apply in the game without being bogged down by the math. The article makes frequent reference to my spreadsheet, which I highly recommend using; however, the analysis document only reflects features that are present in v1.3 of my spreadsheet, which is still in development. I *think* v1.21 (the one linked in my signature) is pretty good, but it has an error and lacks flexibility that is present in v1.3. It is still a good indicator, though it may be somewhat inaccurate. Please read it through and let me know of any errors or fallacies that I may have missed. Thanks!

Mana Regeneration Analysis

Level 80 Restoration Druid Spreadsheet here.
(v1.41)

Offline
Old 12/13/08, 3:29 PM   #114
Altamont
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Andorhal
[Nobles Deck]

Do you guys think the base Int is better then get the spirit to proc (even with 90 int, I can make myself have more spirit) or just get the raw +90 Spirit and have it proc Spirit.

Offline
Old 12/13/08, 3:47 PM   #115
Playered
Soda Popinski
 
Playered's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Int one with Spirit proc is superior.

Great Britain Offline
Old 12/13/08, 3:49 PM   #116
Altamont
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Andorhal
Originally Posted by Playered View Post
Int one with Spirit proc is superior.
I'm thinking the raw spirit, seeing Spirit does add some Spell Power.

If I use [Illustration of the Dragon Soul] I think it would make an awesome combo.

Offline
Old 12/13/08, 8:57 PM   #117
uliko
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kor'gall (EU)
Take the intellect version because it is so superior in the mana department that you could easily swap some gear/gems/enchants around to make up for the 17 spellpower the spirit trinket gives you.

At 1000 intellect, 1400 spirit and 7m fight the intellect version gives you 6032 mana if you innervate yourself and 4547 otherwise while the spirit one only provides 2529 mana over the same period. 17 spellpower just doesn't make up for it. Formulas here if you want to change some values around (make sure to add in living spirit/kings correctly).

Why hit food is bad
"You have to spend 10 seconds to apply it, you have to fish it and you cant use the feast."

Offline
Old 12/14/08, 4:02 PM   #118
Tipperton
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Madmortem (EU)
I wanted to ask what you would prefer after you reached the "hastecap" (1sek globalcd for LB,RJ,WG)
crit / haste?

I'm not sure what to prefer, since i haven't found any good calculations about it...

(thx in advance)

Offline
Old 12/14/08, 7:04 PM   #119
KrinKer
Von Kaiser
 
KrinKer's Avatar
 
Worgen Druid
 
Lightbringer
OK

I've asked this before in my longer post but I'd like to know if someone would be able to tell me/us how much haste does crit rating gives when u factor in nature's grace when spamming regrowth ?

It is probably slightly complex but I'd like to know.

Thanks in advance !

Offline
Old 12/15/08, 8:48 AM   #120
Adriel
Banned
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Arygos
After many runs this weekend, these are my impressions.

* No matter how wide our arsenal of spells, we are still primarily HOT healers in raid environments. This is because quite simply, other classes are better at direct heals. While at the same time, we are gifted in the hotness department. Invariably this means our assignments, particularly in 25-mans, will favor us using HOTs.

* Because HOTs don't crit, it becomes less desirable as a stat. As such, we should favor haste over crit, since haste lets us throw HOTs faster.

* That said, in the end crit = mana. We all know the routine. We throw HOTs on everything. Then when our targets lose too much life, we do a direct heal with Nourish/Regrowth. If this doesn't top them off, we usually follow this with a HOT. Thus the more you can get Nourish/Regrowth to crit, the less followup you need to do, which turns into saved mana. Crit also has the side benefit of making single target (tank) healing more effective. As we can put out more average HPS, while at the same time not spending more mana.

So while crit is not as desirable as haste initially, because haste helps our primary function more. There comes a point where more haste won't help spread the HOTs any faster, ie. the "softcap. From that point on, crit should have a higher priority since our remaining spells (direct heals) and mana benefit more from that stat.

That's my take anyway :o

To sum it up.

1. Crit > haste until you don't have any mana issues. Most important thing in any fight is don't run out of mana, and crit doesn't hurt.
2. Once mana regeneration is good, then it becomes haste > crit until you achieve 1-sec global cooldown with 5/5 Gift of the Earthmother. This is to benefit our HOTs, which are our primary function.
3. After reaching the soft cap, then crit > haste again. To benefit our direct heals after we've polished our HOT effectiveness.

Also don't get MP5 if you can avoid it. Get spirit. Or even get haste+crit. Straight MP5 is just not worth the cost in terms of item budget ;p

Last edited by Adriel : 12/15/08 at 9:04 AM.

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Restoration Glyphs Arentios Druids 317 01/16/10 4:19 AM
Restoration Trinkets GTtheBard Druids 307 01/15/10 10:55 AM
Drums of Restoration Mitten Public Discussion 7 04/30/07 2:56 PM