I am still tinkering with values, but this Lootrank itemization makes sense to me (most of the time).

<<Lootrank Itemization for Resto Druids>>

Assumptions:

1. I emphasized Spell Power as our most important stat (no surprise). Thereafter, emphasis was placed on Spirit, Intelligence and Stamina. I know there is active discussion in this thread concerning the relationship between Spirit and Inteliigence. I placed a slightly higher value on Spirit. (Tweak values if you disagree.)

2. I placed a nominal value on haste and crit since nearly all of our gear comes with one or the other anyway. This doesn't mean I hate either stat. Rather, I gave each a value of "1" to acknowledge their presence on our gear and to prioritize them over the straight mp5 stat, which I valued at zero.

3. I only wear leather gear. (Sorry clothies).

4. I did not include pvp gear.

5. I forced gem slots since WotLK slot bonuses are often better than BC, imo. Here again, tweak as you deem appropriate.

The results generally work for me. I tend to keep my eye on the top 3 slot choices since there is no guarantee that I will always get the best-in-slot item if/when it drops. People may quibble with some of the results, i.e. trinket selection, but that's where common sense kicks in.

As always, feedback and suggested changes to the Lootrank values are always appreciated.

Don't forget the effect of [Ember Skyflare Diamond].

Updated my post to factor Living Seed for Crit/Haste setups

Glory Post #199

As you see even with Livingseed healing always and with no overheal and no bug, you will heal less with max crit.

Also it is not that easy to say Nature's Grace is 25% Haste or 33%, because only with common Raidbuffs you get your cast time of RG to 1.85 Sec then its equivalent to 37% Haste.
But for Nourish its the other way round, because you have a limit of 1Sec GCD the more Haste you have the less haste is Nature's Grace worth. 0,6 Sec Nourish or 1 Sec Nourish doesnt matter. Well maybe it helps you on reactiv healing to land your heals befor the paladins.

And 33% haste is not 67% Cast time left it only means you cast 4 Spells in the time you cast 3 Spells without haste.

Haste wins always if you dont have Manaissues.

One question I have is why you'd leave MP5 unweighted. While Spirit is preferable for a druid over MP5, this by no means leaves MP5 as a useless stat. Two equivalent pieces where one had a large amount of spirit and the other had no spirit but MP5 are both preferable to a much weaker item that still had spirit. Yes, Innervate improvement and a bit of Spellpower come from Spirit too, but MP5 is still an important stat with value, when weighting loot.

Don't discount MP5 just because it doesn't give you a smidge of spellpower per point.

I find it strange that you rank Haste with a value of "1", yet stamina with a value of "4". I understand that stamina is important as most raids have raid wide damage that need to be survived, but this ends up ranking [Earthgiving Boots] above [Boots of the Follower]. I realise that this is only to be used as a guide but perhaps a bit more tweaking should be done?

Also [Cuttlesteak] is way down the list on the food section (amongst others).

Agreed, the Stamina ranking seems a bit off. On this run, I changed Stamina to 0 and put MP5 at 10. This seems to correct the flaw mentioned above.

Loot Rank for resto Druid (Leather only, no PvP)

One thing I noticed while looking at the buffs at the bottom was that [Elixir of Draenic Wisdom] is ranked above [Elixir of Spirit] and [Elixir of Mighty Thoughts]. It seems we have no direct replacement yet. Has anyone tested the in-game performance difference for these three in current raid content? I think most people (myself included) are just using [Flask of the Frost Wyrm].

So in basic terms is 30Int AND 30Spi > 50Spi OR 45Int?

I find this to be the best summary:

In the end it seems that the high-end raiders will want the [Elixir of Draenic Wisdom] since it will help maintain the current ration better than boosting one stat over the other. Of course, we can also hope an upgraded version of this elixir will appear in future content patches.

I'd also like to see more gear with less itemization points wasted on crit and Haste.

For all reasonable levels of gear right now (base Int/Spi: 800/800, 1000/1000, 800/900, 900/1000, 1000/1100, 1000/1200) including normal raid buffs applied after:
Draenic Wisdom is always superior to the Spirit or Int elixirs.
On a flat MP5 (character sheet+Replenish) level the Spirit one will beat the Int version by a very small margin.
On a real value for Int (including bonus mana et all) then the Int elixir will beat the Spirit one.

Time spent OO5SR should not change these results significantly due to the Int inclusion in the formula unless you intend to spend large amounts of time AFK during the encounter in which case I do not care.

I checked it quickly before my previous post and noticed Nature's Grace only shaves off 0.4 sec off my current Regrowth, so I assumed it worked that way. After a bit more testing it seems that we are both wrong. What Nature's Grace does is reduce casttime by 0.5 and THEN apply haste. So if you have 20% haste, it will treat Regrowth as if it's a 1.5 sec cast and then reduces it to a 1.25 sec cast, even though without Nature's Grace Regrowth will cast for 1.67. So back to the drawing board I guess.

Edit: about that MP5 value for lootrank, it should never be 0 of course. It should be greater than spirit even, since 1 mp5 will give a lot more mana back than 1 spirit.

I forgot about that one, but I'm not sure if it's wise to add it initially since not everyone is using that meta. However I can add the final values for when you do use that meta, which I'll do soon.

I think there may be a problem with what Norfair does in his estimation of the value of INT for mana regen. He looks at 4 different ways in which Intellect impacts a resto druid:

- mana pool, from which he gets a value of 0.172 mp5 per mana
- improved Spirit-based regen, from which he gets 0.485 mp5 out of combat and 0.145 in combat
- impact on Replenishment buff, which comes out to 0.206 mp5
- improved crit

Mana Pool:

It’s easy to figure out what he did to get his first figure of 0.172 mp5:

16.5 mana per INT / (8 minutes * 60 seconds / 5 for the “5” part of mp5) = 16.5/96 = 0.1719

The problem I see, though, is that this is not actually mana regen, it is just the size of the mana pool over the length of the fight. Intellect, all by itself, does not provide any mana regen, it just provides a bigger mana pool. A bigger pool, of course, means you can cast more spells before you go OOM, given a fixed mana burn rate, so this is still a benefit to us from INT, but it is definitely not 0.172 mp5.

Spirit-based Regen:

To confirm Norfair’s figures for the extra value of 1 point of INT to Spirit-based regeneration, I just punched the 1000 value of INT and SPI into the formula:

(0.001+1000*0.005575*(1000^0.5))*5 = 881.4899 mp5

Then recalculated with one extra point of INT:

(0.001+1000*0.005575*((1000+1)^0.5))*5 = 881.9305 mp5

So at 1k INT and 1k SPI, adding 1 more point of INT is worth:

881.9305 – 881.4899 = 0.4406 mp5

Norfair gets his figure of 0.485 by adding 1 pt of Kings-modified INT:

(0.001+1000*0.005575*((1000+1.1)^0.5))*5 =

881.9746, minus the 881.4899 = 0.4847

To actually determine the value of 1 more point of INT after Kings, you need to add the effect of Kings not only into the “new” 1 point of INT, as Norfair did, but also into the “preKings” values of SPI and INT, for:

(0.001+(1000*1.1)*0.005575*((1000*1.1)^0.5))*5 = 1016.9651 mp5

One more point of INT is:

(0.001+(1000*1.1)*0.005575*((1000+1)*1.1)^0.5))*5 = 1017.4734 minus 1016.9651 = 0.5083

So when making a gearing/gemming choice, at 1000 Spirit and 1000 Intellect, 1 more point of INT directly increases Spirit-based mana regeneration by:

Out of Combat: 0.441 mp5
While Casting: 0.132 mp5
Out of Combat (with Kings): 0.508 mp5
While Casting (with Kings): 0.152 mp5

Replenishment

Mana regenerated from Replenishment is 0.25% of your current MAX mana per second, and every point of INT (aside from the first 20) gives an extra 15 mana, for each additional point of INT, Replenishment is worth:

0.1875 mp5 (no Kings)
0.206 mp5 (with Kings)

In almost all properly-built 25-mans, you can expect to get Replenishment for a very high proportion of every encounter, although I suggest it is better to be a little conservative here, and assume that you benefit from Replenishment around 85% of the time, the other 15% being the rare 25-man with no Ret Pally, Surv Hunter, or Shadowpriestie, or times when the Replenishment class is out of range or dead or . . . whatever other unusual situations cause you to lose your Replenishment buff.

So call it, conservatively:

0.160 mp5 (no Kings)
0.175 mp5 (with Kings)

Crit

Each point of Intellect adds 0.006 crit. Of course, the relative value of crit to resto druids is under debate, so it is difficult to quantify. However, most of us agree that crit contributes less to our healing effectiveness than Spellpower, Spirit, or the other benefits provided by Intellect. It’s a minor factor when evaluating Intellect as a stat in Restodruid itemization.


Norfair was right in that Intellect is an important stat in resto itemization, but I believe his math overstated it just a little. Instead of 0.523 mp5 per Int while in combat for a druid with 1k Spirit and Int benefiting from Kings and Replenishment, I would say 0.327 mp5 per point of Intellect is probably closer to accurate.

It looks as though the math to calculate the value of an extra point of Spirit was also a little off because it adds Kings to the “new” point of Spirit, but leaves it out of the rest of the calculation. A more accurate value for 1 extra point of Spirit would be 1.17 mp5 out of combat, rather than 1.115, and 0.351 mp5 in combat.

I think most of this is right, but if anyone has a bunch of time on their hands, check and see if this all adds up.

As I stated in my initial post I said that the number could vary a lot based on a lot of different things like your intellect, spirit, Replenishment uptime and such. Maybe I should have stated this a bit more clear since it's obvious that the final number in the first post isn't always the right number.

However, I treated each stat the same. You could say that for a druid who has BUFFED 1000 spirit and 1000 int, then 1 point extra int or spirit on his gear would give these numbers and then the math is still correct. Regarding increase in mana pool, intellect does not provide you *real* mana regen of course, but I converted it to a mp5 number so it's easier to compare with other stats. You could say that in order to get 16.5 mana in an 8 minute fight you would need an extra 0.172 mp5, so therefore I did it like that. It's clearly an extra mana benefit and should be taken into account when comparing it with spirit mana regen.

But I agree with you that the intellect number comes out high as it has a lot in its favor (100% in FSR, 100% uptime on Replenishment) compared to spirit and people should be careful with how to interpret these numbers.

MP5 gives you <x> mana over <y> duration, Int will give you <x> mana from the start. Technically they are both means to an end but they are resulting in doing the same thing it's just that one gets weaker and the other stronger over time. Converting the value of Int into MP5 is simplifying it slightly but the majority of people would get more confused from making a relative mana value and converting both MP5 and Int into it instead of just displaying effective MP5.


Your logic behind having a 15% reduction of Replenishment uptime is odd too. If you have a raid without a Ret/SP/SV then you do not have Replenishment period - this does not effect the worth of Replenishment for the times you do have it. You also will never not have Replenishment for any encounter that matters because in these cases your guild will either make a Hunter or Priest respec (fairly easy with normal gear) or suffer the consequences. Regardless it is simply a matter of you have it or you do not have it so for clarity sake you will keep it as a seperate value so it is easy to differentiate between the two. If it is a vital mana fight and your Replenishment provider dies then you will combat res him above any others and if there are multiple deaths then you should wipe it and tell people to stop failing.

I think you have multiplied too many times.

The original values given by giansm in this thread:

Raiding as a Tree

were 26 +Healing in the mana regen ("Purple") set and 35 +Healing in the maximum output set ("Red").

I believe the equation for converting +Healing to SP is:

Spell Power = +Healing * 0.532

Source: Resto4Life� Blog Archive � Spell Power, +Healing, and Coefficients

Thus +Healing = 1.88 * SP

So using the figure of 26 +Healing on the mana regen set gives a weighting of 48.9, pretty close to your original value of 46.99, so I suspect it has already been converted correctly.

Mana is mana, whether it comes from regen or just having a bigger bar. The only difference is that the amount gained from regen is proportional to the fight length, while the extra thousand topend is not. However, I think Norfair actually undervalues intellect in that sense. Two reasons:
-8 minutes has proven to be an overestimate in WotLK. Very few fights are even over 5 minutes.
-Innervate will refill you to the top of that mana bar with a reasonable amount of spirit, allowing you to benefit from it again.

Hmm that's actually something I never even considered. Right now my gear preference is first and foremost spellpower, after that I look at spirit and INT. Then thirdly if it's one of the rare items that also have extra mp5 I prefer that over an item that gives extra haste or crit. But even like this I still go over that raid softcap for haste.

The advantage of taking points out of GotE and putting them into Celestial Focus instead is that Celestial Focus also improves your haste for Regrowth where GotE obviously doesn't do this. Also I don't really know how GotE will be affected by the nerfed WG (with cooldown) in patch 3.0.8. Will you be able to reduce the cooldown on WG now by it? Or will WG simply be removed from the talent?

Right now I have a 14/0/57 build and my most used heals are always WG, RJ, LB, RG and SM so I don't value value crit % very high (I even have 4/5 T7 and Nourish IMO is so much not worth it). I think if I would swap 4 points from Resto to Balance (as much from GotE as I can miss, a leftover point from Imp Tranq and then the rest from Natural Perfection since I don't PvP anyway) so that I reach 3/3 Celestial Focus it might overall be better. That Celestial Focus would help me with non-graced regrowths when I go regrowth spwm, and also shorten the GCD on Swiftmend (I got SM glyphed BTW) and all decurses and abolish poisons.

I see 5/5 GotE a bit of a starter talent to gear yourself up. Once you got yourself equipped full in mostly epic ilvl213 gear and you go over the soft haste cap for those spells affected by GotE, I think it might be better to still prefer haste gear over crit gear but remove a few points from GotE and put them elsewhere (like Celestial Focus, so that your other spells gain more haste as well).

EDIT - A nice build would for example be the following : Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
If you want to keep 3/3 Living Seed and 3/3 Natural Perfection then you have only 2 leftover points for GotE. And that seems to be a spec that would be doable, maybe now but definately in the future with higher ilvl gear. From the table on the topic post of this thread (*****) you can see with 2/5 GotE + Totem + iMoon/RetPal you need 781 haste. The 3% haste from Celestial Focus means 3 * 32.79 or 98 haste rating less. So you would need 781-98 = 682 haste rating. When I look at my own gear I'm currently at 558 haste rating with 3 slots not yet occupied by a haste item if I wear all my haste gear. Getting 124 haste from 3 slots might be a bit hard esp considering I wear the +50 haste alchemy trinket as well. But with Ulduar gear, it should be possible.

So in the end my GCD for RJ LB and WG would still be capped. But all that haste gear you find in instances has more purpose and doesn't get 'wasted'. Plus all your other resto abilities in Tree of Life cast faster as well.

Another advantage is the slightly better synergy with balance gear. After reading a moonkin thread on this forum I learned that after spellpower, haste is a better stat on gear than crit (probably mainly because of its cheaper budget than crit rating). That means your resto gear is quite good for balance offspec as well. Or when dual specs are implemented, you could spec for PvE resto and PvE balance and basically still perform pretty decent in moonkin just nuking with your resto set.


(*****) About that haste table from the topic post, something I don't quite understand is the following.

Example A :
Wrath of Air and Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura
0/5 GotE = ~38.7% Haste = ~1269 Haste Rating

Example B :
Wrath of Air only
0/5 GotE = ~42.9% Haste = ~1407 Haste Rating

In example A you get 5% haste from Air Totem and 3% from Moonkin/Ret Aura. In example B you get only 5% haste from the Air Totem. The difference between those is in fact 3% haste. Now suppose you take those 3% from gear instead of the Moonkin Aura (for an exmaple), it's basically the same right? 3% is 3% and it doesn't matter where it comes from? Well, if you use the haste ratio, you would need 32.79 x 3 = 98 haste rating. But how come the difference between 1269 and 1407 from the examples is 138 haste rating? I would expect this to be a 98 haste difference as well.

Is there something incorrect in the math the table is based upon? Or am I completely missing something here?

Thanks for finding the formula! Working on polishing my math skills... brb

Both totem and aura are multiplicative as in *1.03 and not +0.03 so you get 1.387*1.03=1.42861*1.05=1.5

I see, thanks for clearing that up.

Now let's say I would spec for 3/3 Celestial Focus, would that be considered another 1.03 multiplier, or would it just be the fixed amount that equals to 98 haste rating (3*32,79 = ~98 haste rating)?

Forgive my perhaps misplaced thread, but after reading the very informative information above, for an average hot-based Resto (rather than HT), what are recommendations for gear enchants? Are these given in other posts that I missed? I saw in one of the previous postings' links the itemization from Loot Rank listing enchanting values for chest, MH and 2H, but what specifically is recommended for the remainder of gear?

As a first time poster, have to say this is a fantastic site...

Ambullance - Mannoroth-US

Spellpower where possible, 10stats on chest, on cloak it's a tossup between wisdom or haste, and boots you can use tuskars if you dont have a run speed meta or dont like it or you always have an unholy DK otherwise 18 spirit is good. It's not that hard to figure out what to enchant, you know what you're lacking when you're raiding so you enchant/gem that no matter what we say. Also we know who you are by looking to the left and we care that it's your first post... or no, we dont.

Spellpower if you can, else spirit.

Lol - I think you're being a little arbitrary in saying how every guild will react in every situation where Replenishment is useful and needed. I understand and agree with your basic point - Replenishment is very very important, and it will be there WHENEVER POSSIBLE. My point was simply that sometimes it isn't possible. There is no Hunter or Priest available to respec. The Brez is down. Whatever.

I pulled a completely random "15% of the time, you don't get Replenishment" number out of the air, because sometimes you don't get Replenishment. It's a fact.

Pick another random number - it will be just as valid. But 100% is misleading.