Monedula

[removed]
Other people have better explanations. See next post.

 

◊ Abradix

1 PPM with a 15 second duration means more then 25% uptime, it just means that with our 1 second attack speed every attack has a 1.67% chance of proccing berserking. We'll be attacking more then 60 times per second though if you include all our yellow hits. Assuming we spend every 45 energy on an offensive move, which is more or less accurate considering we need to keep up SR/Rip which won't count for procs, but this is somewhat offset by Clearcasting. Anyway, 60 seconds is 720 enery (With 2x TF) or 16 extra attacks, making a total of 76 attacks per minute each with a 1.67% chance of proccing berserker.

This is without haste, and raid buffs alone is usually 23%, and I'm sure most people have some haste on their gear, so it's pretty safe to say we can up that number to 90 attacks per minute (23% haste gives 14 more attacks per minute).

Considering 1 out of 60 attacks will proc berserking, and we'll do 90 attacks per minute, it should proc on average every 40 seconds which would give us a 37.5% uptime. The problem with this math is obviously that it can proc while it's already up, which would make the actual uptime slightly less. But all in all this enchant is quite superior to massacre for cats.

 

kalbear

That's not how you calculate the uptime of a 1 PPM attack; PPM mechanics give a base chance on every attack that it'll be triggered, which is based on the speed of the weapon. That being said, cats suffer greatly from this because their attack speed is so fast.

Massacre and Berserk are going to be very close to each other in effectiveness.

 

loos

Are they going to be very close to each other before or after we account for the -25% Armor that comes with berserk? On WowHead, some of the comments say they are willing to dual-wield it and get a -50% Armor debuff, so maybe we'll be okay?

 

Monedula

Berserk is as good as the person using the weapon. If you get into a melee fight or get a hit where you are not supposed to you have a bigger chance to die. If you don't get hit or know how to avoid to get hit, berserk is the better option.
Sometimes melee dps needs to take down some adds. Better not have berserk on the weapon you use then!

As a total (not counting the smart use by the player) I would say the 25% armor reduction is a bigger drawback then the extra AP gained vs massacre.
For people using 2-handers that is...

Looking at dual wielding classes (that melee, thus excluding hunters) there are rogues and enhancement shamans. Warriors can dual-wield 2-handers and other 1-hander users that use shields either heal or tank and can't use this enchant either.

So the rogues and shamans using this can either get berserk or this: [Formula: Enchant Weapon - Superior Potency]
Simply looking at materials you can see berserk is worth more and probably better.
Calculating AP: the AP gained from berserk vs superior potency I would say berserk is the better choice for them, 2 berserk vs 130 AP.

Since we as 2-hander users can get only 1 berserk vs 110 AP it is less beneficial for us then for them.
Overall I would not go for berserk. It complicates things, costs a lot more and switching into bear you are likely to die if you forget to switch weapons. (Not sure if it is possible, but you should be able to make a macro so you won't forget.)

 

Pharmacon

Gain 75 stam on your staff. Lose 3x24 = 72 stam from gems that turn into 3x16 = 48 agi but you lose the 35 agi you should have on your staff.

So swapping like this will net you 3 stam and 13 agi.

 

Monedula

Not completely true.
I have gemmed all my gems to get the socket bonus. Doing what you suggested would make me loose this bonus.
You can do the same replacing 6 stamina gems by stamina/agi gems. You keep the socket bonus.

Or just take the agility loss and be happy with the stamina increase. Unless you really feel you can't do without any more stamina.

 

Smartiepants

Working on 3 drake sarth, I would argue that in general survival stats (stam) is really what sets us apart at this level anyways, being able to take some of the 'spikes' is more important right now imo. Since we haven't really seen healer mana stretched (speaking as a healer).

The 75 stam is something I am looking forward to.

 

Pharmacon

Being that the agi/stam gem hasn't been put into the game, you're wrong. You'd have to go with a dodge rating/stam gem which is hardly ideal. And just because you have gemmed to hit all your sockets, doesn't make it the best thing for everyone.

 

◊ Abradix

That just proves the point Pharmacon, 75 stamina enchant is worth 48 agility and 3 stamina, ergo it's worth pretty much 50 agility, nowhere was said it was a 50 agility upgrade.

 

Wolfinstein

Well with savage roar up ur looking at 560ap with berseking and 154 ap with massacre

 

Teldarion

Don't forget that Berserk is a temporary boost, where as massacre is constant.
But as someone has already proven, berserk is better for sheer dps.

 

coldbear

Enchant Gloves - Major Strength - Spell - World of Warcraft is the cat's meow if you're looking at [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]

Author of "Every Boss In The Game" (3.0.9), "100 Dead Death Knights", "Fun In Ulduar", "Guide: How To Feral DPS" videos:
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/pv.php?t=3&l=parl2001

 

Korhaug

With current gear it is extremly unlikely, if at all possible, to have more Strength then Agility in DPS gear. therefore there's no special reason to take STR over AP enchants/gems.

That being said, +15 STR is a competitive enchant for DPS, since with Kings and SOTF it comes to 15*2*1.1*1.06 = 34.98 AP before HOTW, which is equivalent to the new Greater Assault enchant (+35 AP before HOTW). Both are inferior to Crusher (+44 AP).

 

Verdan

Of course, Outfitter can automatically switch weapons on the fly when you switch forms. Just have it equip your [Origin of Nightmares] when you shift to bear, works well for me.

I love Berserking. Best DPS enchant in game, bar none. Though, I'd wait and put it on something you plan to keep for a long time, it's obnoxiously expensive.

 

Habitus

For your cloak i see you haven't mentioned the tailor only enchantment for cats. The melee version Swordguard Embroidery - Spell - World of Warcraft seems to have a 45 sec icd and according to wowhead has a 25% proc rate. Even if we assume an uptime of 30% (with our high number of hits per sec it will be closer to 33% but i haven't had time to spec feral and test it yet) its still equals 90ap.

So we have 90ap compared to the 22agi, or 23 haste enchants, probably not quite as good as improvement over the base enchants as the other professions but is probably the most easy pair to enchanting.

 

Monedula

Thanks for mentioning this. Didn't know of it's existence. Added it.

 

Cards

For chest you might want to consider [Scroll of Enchant Chest - Greater Defense] as it provides the most avoidance of any possible chest enchant. It should be 4.47 skill, which is ignoring skill breakpoints 0.1788% each of dodge and miss pre-DR. That is significantly more than 8 or 10 all stats, and Rawr says that with my current gear (mostly naxx25 stuff) that if I were to switch from my current +8 all stats to +22 defense I would trade ~140 health for ~0.25% avoidance. That isn't bad at all.

 

Monedula

True 22 defense gives the most mitigation of all enchants, but looking at rawr it only does 20% more then +10 stats, where the stats enchant has the double total value in points of the defense enchant (survivability and a bit threat).
You can have 99% mitigation but if you only have 100 health you die. 10 stats is the perfect mix. If you do need more mitigation I would suggest using a dodge + stam gem in all your blue sockets.

I give you that 22 defense a lot cheaper then 10 stats but this thread is about the best enchants and not the best value for money enchant.

 

Pike

Just curious, but did you also check the differences when affected by blessing of kings? Defense isn't affected by stat multipliers.

 

Cards

Yeah, this was with all raid buffs.

That's why we have stuff like [Glove Reinforcements] listed? If that deserves to be there then +22 defense does too.

 

kalbear

Glove reinforcements give a higher TTL than a lot of other enchants do, and is routinely recommended by Rawr depending on how high or low your armor is.

 

Monedula

The glove reinforcements is the best alternative listed by rawr. 22 defense is the nr 4 alternative enchant listed.

 

Aldhissla

The term "best" can be a little misleading, I assume you are filtering for "overall" (mitigation, survivability, threat).

For a player who has decided their threat is not an issue (let's face it, we get a lot of threat stats on gear anyway, 10 strength should not make or break your tanking abilities), and who already has "enough" stamina to survive some unlucky burst damage, they will be looking to stack avoidance as much as possible.

This seems like a viable option to me - personally I don't really care too much about threat stats and would be balancing the extra 160 or so health of the stamina with the extra avoidance from the defense.

 

sal

I looked into rawr enchants for kitty dps and...

Rawr (2.1.6) states mongoose is better than massacre for dps. Is this true? I would hate to replace an enchant worth a few thousand gold in materials for an alternative based on a single source. Mind-math states from what I recall mongoose worked out for be worth less than 40 agi for kitty thus it should come out to a value closer to greater savagery (~75-80ap) raid buffed... but am I forgetting the haste? Is Mongoose better than Massacre for DPS?!

Berserking appeared really high, and the armor reduction (25% now?) appears to be decreasing to something more usable. I like the previous note of a mod (outfitter) switching weapons/(idols?) on shapeshift. I will definately enchant berserking post 3.08 when mats are nurfed.


As a side-consideration I wonder how blizzard plans to address the lack of need for stamina. In current raid content I have seen nearly all tanks stack avoidance. The only need has been 3 drakes where one has a 25% health nurf and a breath can hit for 43-45,000 damage. Made a lolstam set for over 50,000 health (40ishk hp with the nurf raid buffed), never thought I would actually wear it... as mentioned earlier cap FrR for a fire dragon is ftw.

My other hope is they push tanking needs beyond 2 tanks and sometimes a hybrid in 25-man. I am sure everyone here has seen the sting to tank ratio from 5's, to 10's, to 25's. WTB dual spec now.

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