Druid changes Patch 3.08 - Page 2

effekt125 · 12/11/08, 2:52 PM

I'm incredibly disappointed by cat swipe, at this point it is most likely still inferior to bear

Diameter · 12/11/08, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by sadris

Correct. Also note that in bear form, you can double-maul every ~2.3 seconds. People should bring up this point when the PTR forums go up. If it was Blizzard's intent to get us out of bear form while dpsing on trash, they failed miserably.

I was calculating this out, and if you are attacking 5 or more enemies at once, you should see an increase in your damage using cat swipe (note: you need to have savage roar up). Of course, you need to spec into Feral Instinct to do the most damage (but both cat and bear swipes would be affected by this talent)

Also note that Ferocity should affect this skill and reduce the energy cost down to 45. Not that it's great, but it's something. It would also free up a major glyph for you, as Glyph of Maul would no longer be needed (at the moment, there really isn't a 3rd useful glyph for cats though).

I would also find it difficult to find many packs which have 5 or more enemies up for an extended period of time (skitterer packs die so quickly).

Duilliath · 12/11/08, 3:04 PM

I remain disappointed with the armor change. Still no effort to make the oodles of *offensive* stats on our gear of any use with regards to the *survival* stats bears like. Not to mention gearing is 'dumbed' down even further. Make us care about more stats. Not less. Maybe with some big content patch when they've had more time to work out the remaining kinks, but I'm a bit dubious as I don't see them overhaul the system twice in a short time.

Krag · 12/11/08, 3:12 PM

A couple more bullets were added on mmo-champion:

* Growl range has been increased from 20 to 30 yards.
* Maim duration has been increased by 1 second. (3/4/5/6/7 seconds)
* Survival Instincts now temporarily grants you 30% of your current maximum health for 20 sec. (Old - 30% of your maximum health)

I'm guessing the Survival Instincts is 30% of current health (current maximum health is a little confusing). Maybe it was too good with the higher bear health pools. I'm just hoping they remember it if we do get the health modifier adjusted at some point.

Mijae · 12/11/08, 3:17 PM

Originally Posted by Inaiwae

"Some feral weapons have had strength converted to attack power to be more appealing to other classes able to equip them."

This seems like a nerf, according to http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t36999-feral_druid_numbers/ 1 str equals roughly 2.56 atp. So if they change [Journey's End] this way,

114 str * 2.56 = cca 292 ATP for cat in raid
114 str = 228 ATP in itemization formula

So we'd lose cca 64 ATP.

Well, i was looking for this change for a long time (and i thought i'd never see it coming live). So bring it on anyway

.

Don't forget about HotW and Predatory Strikes (20% of any attack power on your equipped weapon).

114 str * 1.06 * 1.1 * 2 * 1.1 = 292 AP
228 AP * 1.1 * 1.2 = 301 AP

Unless they change Predatory Strikes, this will actually be a buff to us. For weapons only, attack power is better than strength (and we don't even need BoK for it).

Brute · 12/11/08, 3:19 PM

The way I interpret the Survival Instincts change is that currently it doesnt take into account any health trinkets or other temporary health effects whereas it sounds like now it should?

Also, with regards to the Mangle (Bear) correction/nerf... is mangles threat primarily a static threat value or is it damage based? Actually kind of bothered by this one because currently WITH the bug I feel our single target threat and dmg is where it should be in relation to the other tanks in a similar encounter. 16% dmg reduction on an ability being used every 4.5 seconds (to speak nothing of bear berserk) isnt trivial....

Diameter · 12/11/08, 3:29 PM

The Bear Mangle nerf will still have us doing more damage than other tanks. In Patchwerk with unlimited rage, I'm seeing about 100 dps decrease from this. The only time I do less damage than another tank is when our prot pally offtanks 3 or more mobs.

Deathwing · 12/11/08, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by Duilliath

I remain disappointed with the armor change. Still no effort to make the oodles of *offensive* stats on our gear of any use with regards to the *survival* stats bears like. Not to mention gearing is 'dumbed' down even further. Make us care about more stats. Not less. Maybe with some big content patch when they've had more time to work out the remaining kinks, but I'm a bit dubious as I don't see them overhaul the system twice in a short time.

Why do people keep saying this? This change does exactly what you're complaining about. Now, instead of only caring about armor on your accessories and weapons, it's just a relevant stat on approximately equal footing as the other mitigation/survival stats. Download the most recent rawr and play around with the 3.0.4 armor option. You'll see that in a lot of slots, items with no bonus armor are competitive with the old bonus armor items.

Micka · 12/11/08, 3:32 PM

Originally Posted by Krag

A couple more bullets were added on mmo-champion:

I'm guessing the Survival Instincts is 30% of current health (current maximum health is a little confusing).

Current Maximum health includes buffs, whereas current health would be the health that you have at the time of popping the skill.
Sounds like a solid buff.

Deliverance · 12/11/08, 3:39 PM

One more for the list, Sadirin - probably added to mmo-champion after your original post:

Berserk now hit up to 1 target instead of 3. (Error ?)

I sure hope it is an error in the patch notes - I would regret the loss of such a useful AOE tanking tool. We can do without it, of course, but it is so great fun currently.

On Cat(Swipe) - it will be interesting to see just how it is implemented, especially to see if it builds a combo point or not. As an energy based spec, they cannot allow Cat(Swipe) to do so much damage that one would use it to the exclusion of combo point building and the use of finishers when facing a small number of mobs to AOE (say 1-4 mobs) without seriously hurting the base design.

Krag · 12/11/08, 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by Micka

Current Maximum health includes buffs, whereas current health would be the health that you have at the time of popping the skill.
Sounds like a solid buff.

Yeah, I misunderstood that it seems. I just assumed it was something aimed at bears somehow due to Last Stand not being mentioned under warrior changes, but maybe their version already works like that (I haven't played my warrior in forever).

In that case that is buff indeed.

Sadirin · 12/11/08, 3:46 PM

Originally Posted by Deathwing

Download the most recent rawr and play around with the 3.0.4 armor option. You'll see that in a lot of slots, items with no bonus armor are competitive with the old bonus armor items.

Thats not quite correct: armor trinkets/rings/cloaks got nerfed to the lower level of other tanking euipment. It is not that other equipment gets better for bears. Overall we _loose_ . We cannot choose from good equipment now, we can only choose from bad equipment now.

So, lets take RAWR: with the armor changes i loose in my current setup something around 3000 armor and my overall points drop from 285 000 to 260 000. Now, I can change rings, trinkets, cloaks etc ... I loose an additional 3000 points an get 1k life and 2% dodge and my overall points raise to 276 000 points overall. But it is stil a nerf.

Since I _never_ set foot into naxx (ony 5er heroes, leather and badge vendor equipment), it will be a severe nerf for every bear who used armor weapons, trinkets, necks, cloaks and rings. Of course, the looney toon bear who go with 20k armor into a heroic instance will get buffed. Every normal bear will get nerfed.

Krag · 12/11/08, 3:52 PM

Originally Posted by Sadirin

Thats not quite correct: armor trinkets/rings/cloaks got nerfed to the lower level of other tanking euipment. It is not that other equipment gets better for bears. Overall we _loose_ . We cannot choose from good equipment now, we can only choose from bad equipment now.

So, lets take RAWR: with the armor changes i loose in my current setup something around 3000 armor and my overall points drop from 285 000 to 260 000. Now, I can change rings, trinkets, cloaks etc ... I loose an additional 3000 points an get 1k life and 2% dodge and my overall points raise to 276 000 points overall. But it is stil a nerf.

Since I _never_ set foot into naxx (ony 5er heroes, leather and badge vendor equipment), it will be a severe nerf for every bear who used armor weapons, trinkets, necks, cloaks and rings. Of course, the looney toon bear who go with 20k armor into a heroic instance will get buffed. Every normal bear will get nerfed.

Yes, it's a nerf. But if they did not do it this way they would do it in another fashion. It's been quite a while since it was noted that overall bear tanking had to come down in some way.

Sadirin · 12/11/08, 4:00 PM

"come down in some way" .. well, we will see bear tanking in T8/T9. I am not quite sure if bears will still be happy concerning overall avoidance and mitigation.

Deliverance · 12/11/08, 4:03 PM

Originally Posted by Sadirin

Since I _never_ set foot into naxx (ony 5er heroes, leather and badge vendor equipment), it will be a severe nerf for every bear who used armor weapons, trinkets, necks, cloaks and rings. Of course, the looney toon bear who go with 20k armor into a heroic instance will get buffed. Every normal bear will get nerfed.

I'm having trouble seeing that; Just which sort of equipment are you assuming that every normal bear has when the patch hits? To get anywhere close to losing 3k armour from the change without having any gear from Naxxramas you almost have to be using Badge of Tenacity and Offering of Sacrifice - something that a lot of old druid tanks will have by now and more by the time the patch goes live but which can most certainly not be assumed to be the case for every normal bear (and is certainly not going to be the case for most new bears in the expansion).