Deliverance

How can you consider it a bug, Sadris? PS never applied to the STR on a feral weapon, only the FAP, and SotFs stat bonus is also clear in which stats it applies, so there was no reason whatsover to expect that PS and SotF would apply to the normal AP that STR gets changed to on the items.

As regards being balanced around the old values, for a 100 STR item we lose (200*1.06*1.1)-200) AP = 33.2 AP, for a 200 STR item 66.4 AP - yes, they are clear losses, but they are so small that their impact on performance is of the same scale as rounding errors or making a single mistake in a dps rotation, so we'll not be unbalanced and in need of fixing because of such a small loss; it is entirely within the "Bah, so what? Completely acceptable collateral damage" region of item changes from a design POV.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...veranceWOW.png

 

• sadris

I'm talking about Predatory Strikes: "+ 20% of any attack power on your equipped weapon." When FAP is removed from weapons, then the talent is less beneficial as it no longer increases total character AP via the presence of FAP.

'[The main argument against gay-marriage] always revolves around ... "the gay agenda"... Apparently all these gays only want to get married so they can adopt children, turn the children gay (probably using their mystic gay voodoo, passed gayly down from one gay generation to the next), and perpetuate their gayness.'
-- rantingkitten

 

Deliverance

But Predatory Strikes do increase total character damage via FAP after the change, Sadris - the FAP change is that FAP exists for every weapon in the game, not just a few for which it is tacked on.

The only loss that is suffered is that the STR is changed into AP and thus does not benefit from SotF and BoK.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...veranceWOW.png

 

• Playered

GC "confirmed" the Polearm thing, despite it not being available on trainers yet (still?)

"We're not completely done with how feral gear works. (As a minor example, we did just allow druids to use polearms.) We have some other ideas to make collecting pieces more interesting than just whatever the melee leather for your current tier happens to be."

 

TheNameLessOne

It's still a bug even if it is just a poorly written tool tip. Predatory Strikes says all attack power, not just FAP.

 

puebloune

Its not the druid getting nerfed, its the one button spammer being nerfed, and this applies for all healing classes. My healing breakdowns seems to be similar to yours, so I won't have any trouble adjusting.

 

• Playered

I've spent my last couple of weeks making sure I never double-cast WG and somewhat treat it like there is a CD in place. I honestly cannot say I am feeling any major loss for doing so - perhaps people should do the same and 'adjust' before the change happens so that you are not in for any shocks.

 

Grond

You didn't look hard enough. Druid avoidance is significantly worse than every other tank.

 

• Falk

Obviously it is. I said mitigation * avoidance, not flat out avoidance.

Just as obviously, with armor being normalized the way it is, that statement won't hold true anymore. Druids will likely get another form of compensation/scaling (In fact, GC has hinted as much). This was -not- going to happen with how things already were.

 

Monfalaris

I brought up the issue regarding Predatory Strikes and AP/FAP on the german forums a while ago when Build 8905 came out. Back then, people reported that the PS bonus only affected the FAP portion of the weapon even though the tooltip says 'ANY AP'. Additionally, there was a bug with PS which caused the bonus to fail in case the weapon was equipped being in feral form already, for example, when you switch back from your healing mace.

In case PS works with ANY AP on a weapon, the change of Strength to AP on the Feral Staves might not be so bad overall as PS even overcompensates for the lack of raid buff scaling.

Does anyone have up-to-date information regarding the exact mechanics of Predatory Strikes? Everyone seems to have different infos


As for the WG 'Nerf'. I don't quite understand what's so utterly bad about this. Everything it does is forcing us to use it only when it has run out leading to the most efficient use of it rather than inefficient spamming.

Edit: comment on WG

 

FuzzyBuddy

I did some testing on the PTR and it does apply to the converted FAP but does not apply to the STR that was converted to AP. I did not test whether or not it applied to AP enchants. I posted the findings on the PTR forum and Maaven said they would look into it.

 

Crytz

Yes and no. Take 10-man Sapph for example. As it is right now we can cast WG on the ranged group then use the next gcd on the melee. That's two wild growth casts healing about 8 players and 1 hunter pet. In the 25-man version we can easily get it up on 15+ targets. Same goes for Loatheb, Malgyos, Gluth, Noth, periods in Kel'Thuzad...

With that said it's hardly an insurmountable change. Good old preemptive Lifeblooms and Rejuvs will allow a semi-competent player to make up the difference. Honestly, the most negative aspect is that I have yet to see Bliz making a distinction between WG and CoH. To me this indicates a great deal of naivete about how healing actually works in strong raiding guilds, as though they think while we're spamming WG onto every member of the raid, our other healers are just regenning until our last tick.

 

kameelyan

Take the top gear warrior in your guild and put him in RAWR. Check his overall damage taken %. Now do the same for you. You'll be surprised what you see.

I'm still so surprised so many druids are QQ'ing about tanking.

I Iz teh teechurcat, king of teh Jerusalem. I has studiez n wizdum ovur all lolcatz, n zomg wut hevy berdun Ceiling Cat putz on kittehz. Teechurcat haz see lolrus n cheezburgerz n longcatz n awl dat is st00pidz, lyke chasing aftur tail. Nevr can catch teh tayle and even whn yu doo it hrtz srsly. Ecclesiastes 1:12-14

 

lawl

PTR seems screwed up right now.

At one point it will look like a severe nerf compared to my live stats and if I log out/back in it will look like a slight buff.

Edited for confusion.

 

Grock

It's a preemptive nerf. With CoH getting a cooldown the WG spammer will have a much larger return on WG healing if it didn't also get a nerf. Imagine how much healing a WG spammer can do when his heals aren't getting sniped by CoH and have time to finish...

http://ctprofiles.net/63312

 

Logros

I really see it as a buff to WG. Right now my WGs just get overwritten, whatever healing they do is done in the time it takes our CoH spammers to heal everyone to full. After this cooldown, my WGs will actually be able to tick.

It's obviously a nerf to WG when taken on it's own, but it's a buff in relation to CoH, it's direct "competitor", and I fully expect to be doing a larger percentage of the raid's healing after this patch.

 

Grock

That's very positive.

I have no problem with the WG cooldown, I always find myself using Rejuv, Lifebloom, and Regrowth more anyway. But like I said, imagine how much healing WG would do if only CoH received the cooldown.

http://ctprofiles.net/63312

 

Feorius

did some testing on the PTR tonight... Few things

1. Druid armor multiplier loss from trinket/ring/cloak/weapon is made up by Survival of the Fittest, and then some. On live i'm sitting with 27k with my current tanking gear which includes 2 tanking ring with 700 armor combined and staff of plague beast. On PTR I hit 32.8k armor with the same gear and same spec.

2. Cat Swipe - A) it scales with AP. With no SR I have about 6200AP and hits for 750~ normal and 1.7k crit on heroic dummy. With SR I have around 8750AP and it hits for 1k~ normal and coud crit as much as 2.4k~. B) Ferocity lowers the energy cost of swipe by 5. C)The Range of Swipe covers somewhere around 10-12 yds from what I can tell. D)It does not give CP. E)It does not consume OOC, at least not on the current PTR, so no free swipe as cat. F) It is also not affected by Berserk... just when I thought berserk would finally be useful on trash. Bummer. G)There's only Rank 1 Swipe for Cat, purchasable from trainer.

3. Slight DPS loss? Not really sure. On a 3 minute test I can usually pull 2200+ dps on heroc dummy but only pulled 2130 on PTR. Will need more testing to confirm. Might just be RNG playing tricks or a mental thing.

Hope this helps.

 

charriu

Thanks.

The bolded part makes it sound like it's a bug, so maybe it should be reported while still being on PTR.

After all, berserk says "reduces the energy cost of all you Cat Form abilities by 50%".

 

Korhaug

Swipe (Cat) should benefit from OOC and Berserk. This is a bug. The more people report it, the better.

 

Feorius

Reported under the PTR Forum: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [Bug] Druid Cat Form Swipe

 

Sadirin

Well, many bears will have something around 32k to 35k ... can you test it with armor equip on every slot (neck, 2 rings, 2 trinkets, weapon, cloak). Because I fear for every user of armor trinkets that they will loose armor.

 

◊ Abradix

If you're gaining armor from the change then you're nowhere near optimal gear. With the best gear available you're going from 40.2k armor to 34.5k.

 

Feorius

Nope, my gear is far from optimal. I've given up on armor trinkets and armor cloaks a month ago since Blizzard announced the change. And since then I've gone for mostly stam and avoidance for my tanking gear... sitting at 35.6k HP and 31% dodge. Again, far from optimal. I only posted to share my findings. And if what you're saying is true, then I'm glad Blizzard made the change. I'm now much closer to "Optimal armor" than I was before since you suffered from a 6k armor loss and I gained 5k+ armor.

 

• Polynices

That's silly Feorius. What you're saying is that you gimped yourself by changing your gear *before* the patch, i.e. before it was a good idea, and so now the change doesn't hurt you. Well, yeah. Everyone else kept using gear that was actually good *now* and they'll see their armor drop.

It may not be a terrible thing, and there may be good game reasons for the change, but it is a decrease for people that don't do silly things.

I'm just glad that I'll no longer be tempted to wear that darn [Mark of Tyranny].