Duilliath

You're mixing up two things then.
1) The benefit from the trinket
2) The benefit from the gems

They'd have gotten no.2 whether or not they'd have made the trinket, hence it shouldn't be counted towards the benefit of the trinket.

An thenn tehy wuz al ded. Srsly. (Exodus 1)

 

• Daboran

I think it's more of a "nice to have", there's DK/Pali and Warriors who can make far better use of it at present, but I'll definitely pick it up once those classes no longer need it and storing it away for future use.

 

Ugljesa

I'm having a bit of a dilemma with what trinkets to use after the armor change. I have the Greatness Deck and am waiting for the Faire to get the Agility card. My mind's set on that one and I'm welcoming the addition of more dodge. The second trinket is a bit of a problem though.

I'm seeing Essence of Gossamer and Defender's Code as the best options, I could well be blind to some though so point me to some if they're better.

I have Rawr and use it all the time. However, imo, it overvalues Stamina at the moment as there's no "soft cap" or whachamacall it. Either way, I'm sitting at 31k health unbuffed and feeling like more Stamina is just becoming reduntant, while my dodge is scarily low, 35,29% unbuffed. So when I gem items I go for Agility>Stamina and with that accept the gem ratio of 2:3 for Agility:Stamina and still pick Agility.

Now, I have no problem with Rawr's armor/agility comparison and for my gloves enchant, it shows that 240 armor is better than 20 agility. Out of that, I would get the same ratio for 850 armor against 70 Agility. And if I "turn" the Essence of Gossamer into an Agility trinket for comparison, the "Agility worth" of it would be 74 (3:2 Stam:Agi).

That logic puts Essence of Gossamer and Defender's Code very close to eachother in "value" and seeing as I'm fed up with Stamina and will be dropping in mitigation, I'm thinking of going for the Code. Also, while I consider the Essence's proc pretty crap, I like the Use: effect of the Code as a bit of an "oh shit" button.

Any comments on the line of thought? Are there some nicer trinkets that I'm missing (apart from the JC/Alchemy ones as I want to stick with my professions)?

 

kalbear

You're probably missing [Valor Medal of the First War] in your considerations. That's another nice dodge trinket, and combining it with DM:G gives a very good amount of dodge by themselves. That's not to say you should use it all the time, but it is very strong when you do need it.

Really, it depends on the fight. On something like Patchwerk you probably want to ditch DM:G and go with Essence and Defender's code. You'll want the former to eat more hatefuls and want the latter to mitigate far more damage. On something like Sartharion you'll probably want DM:G and Essence. All the trinkets are sufficiently close to each other now in value for a druid that there really isn't going to be a single best one all the time, at least currently. DM:G is probably the best overall and provides the most rounded values, but that doesn't mean you should use it all the time.

 

nightcrowler

Sorry for a noob question but am I the only one thinking about a double stam trinket (essence of gossammer + alchemist stone) post-patch? It seems to me that ppl tends to overextimate avoidance, i've not yet done obsidian with 3 adds up but i've done a lot of other fights (for istance we use to do faerlina with e aggroing all adds + faerlina and AoE all down, and the heal trow frenzy) and what I saw is that also with only 5-6 healer they never go oom, so being a mana sponge it's not a big deal, increasing stam and decreasing avoidance will only reduce the overhealing component and will make healing more predictable.

 

Immortal

It's right in existing instances, but seriously you will be OK without enchants and with str+crit gems now. All this discussion is meaningless without a presumption, that Ulduar bosses will be harder and more dependant on gear.

 

Ugljesa

You're also mitigating more damage now than you will do after the patch (assuming you're using armor trinkets).

And while my healers might not be going oom, they're not dropping me cause I don't have enough health either. I survive through most "oh shit" things and if it really hits the fan, SI and I'm fine (and seeing as SI will be changed to "current maximum" health in the patch, it will be even more effective). I'd rather make the healing a bit easier on them (I really don't like seeing several big hits in a row coming through to me instead of being avoided) than add another few thousand health to my already sufficient health pool. But that's just me of course, it comes down to personal preference I guess. Oh and Alchemist trinket is pure awesomeness, would definitely use it if I had it, beautiful mix of stamina and dodge.

PS thanks to Kalbear, I really didn't pay too much attention to that trinket (again, Rawr whore and it doesen't rank it too high)... I've just bought it from badges (got too many anyway) and seriously considering it.

 

Fallenangel

There isn't a "best" tanking gear because the definition of best varies per encounter. Right now the only hard encounter is 3-drake Sarth, and for that stamina is king, so you'll want to gear up for that.
Look at SWP - at first stamina is important surviving a stun on kalec or a stomp on brutallus. Then you needed max avoidance to not be gibbed by the adds on m'uru. KJ didn't even melee and needed a threat set (less of an issue now due to itemization, naturally). So you build up several gear sets and use as needed - this is usually most pronounced in trinkets since they tend to focus on a very limited number of stats.
That said...druids have the best scaling with stamina (compared to the other tanking classes) and thus shared pieces like jewelery that have it will tend to be good for bears.

 

DrFurious

Any evaluation for the proc on [Extract of Necromantic Power]? Apparently it works with bleeds and given the importance of rip and rake it could be a strong option.

Also of note may be [Chuchu's Tiny Box of Horrors] which is super easy to get and from my experience procs about twice per minute (might be a bit generous) putting it near some of the heroic ones depending on how much you value haste or hit.

 

Corbetti

Does Living Root of the Wildheart suffer from any kind of diminishing returns post-70? If not the 4K armour proc seems quite attractive.

 

kalbear

I've only done limited testing on it, but it still appears to proc at level 80 with about the same frequency (35% uptime abouts). I'm planning on using it in raiding this week; I'll let you know how my testing goes.

 

Mijae

Some of my initial math puts this trinket at or near best in slot. The value will depend on raid buffs and my modeling for spell damage isn't really complete. Assuming 100% uptime for Rip and Rake, we get 50 bleed ticks per minute.

Assuming geared 8% melee hit gives roughly 10% spell hit, with misery reduced to 4% misses.

The average base damage is 1050. Modified by at least one increase, I'll use just Earth and Moon (13%) increasing to 1187 damage.

Spell crit damage modifier is 1.5 and should be affected by meta (1.545). Average crit damage is then 1833.

Spell crit rate will depend on crit rating and Ret or Moonkin buffs. This might be around 20-25% crit. I'll assume 25%.

Are spells on a 1 or 2 roll system? If 1 roll...

50 ticks * 10% chance * (1833*0.25 + 1187*(1-0.25-0.04)) = 6505 dmg/min = 108 dps

This is on top of the passive crit rate value.

Feral DruidStats spreadsheet
v3.2.0.0.xls - updated 8/4/2009

 

HengeMaker

I was under the impression that the 2 "best in slot"(I use qutoes since this is somewhat subjective since Stam and mit/avoidance have different values depending on the situation) trinkets post patch were the darkmoon card and Defenders code. Code is still going to be one of the 2 best mitigation/avoidance trinkets available, no?

What method was used to determine that the crab trinket(which provides comparably minimal avoidance even if you gem for pure Agi) was a higher rung than Defenders, or even Essence of gossamer(alot more stam, with what would seem to be a comparable amount of mitigation from procs).

I'm not trying to pick... but seems off to my eye.

 

HengeMaker

His reasoning was this: If you're a JC, you will use the maximum number of BoP gems you can. So unless you had less than 3 sockets in your gear to begin with(unlikely), using the trinket doesn't allow you to use any more BoP gems(if you socket them in the trinket, they're coming out of a different slot).
So when evaluating the relative values of trinkets, you can't credit the trinket with the value of a BoP gem, but rather must use BoE values to get an accurate estimate of its impact on your overall stats. You can't examine pieces of gear in a perfect vacuum and expect to get meaningful results. It would be like saying that a 500 stamina trinket that didn't let you equip any armor in other slots was the best. You have to take trade-offs into account.

I believe thats the point he was trying to make.

 

killets

Again, the tanking trinket rankings shouldn't be looked anything remotely close to the "end-all", since all I did was try to rank them according to Rawr's default rankings circa 2.1.3, with stat equivalent points estimated by me. Tanking is a sort of art, in that you gear based on the encounter. A fight like Sartharion3 would require tailoring your gear for survival, whereas most fights you could probably gear towards pure mitigation and avoidance.

I made the trinket rankings based on 3.0.8's armor nerf, since the days left that we can still benefit from armor trinkets gets smaller and smaller each passing day. Pre-nerf, I believe that Offering of Sacrifice, and Defender's Code are currently the 2 hands down best trinkets in the game, and I don't even think there's competition, as nothing is in the same stratosphere currently.

 

Santorayo

Is this just an asumption or has any one actually tested if the trinket proccs from cat bleeds?

 

a civilian

The proc effect is said to have a 15 second internal cooldown (from wowhead comments and warlock trinket discussion). From your discussion, the proc does (1833*0.25 + 1187*(1-0.25-0.04)) = 1301 damage and has a proc rate, when cooldown is up, of 1/12 Hz. 1/(proc rate) = 12 sec is hence the average time after the cooldown is up before the next proc occurs, so the effective proc rate, taking the cooldown into consideration, is 1/(15 sec + 12 sec) = 1/27 Hz. The actual dps value of the trinket's proc effect, using your assumptions, is then

(1/27 Hz) (1301 damage) = 48 dps.

 

Mijae

Ahh.. missed the internal cooldown. It did seem to be too good to be true. This puts it under [Mirror of Truth].

Feral DruidStats spreadsheet
v3.2.0.0.xls - updated 8/4/2009

 

oddie

For a Feral DPS kitty spec - main focus is raiding, is the STR deck better then AGI ?

[Darkmoon Card: Greatness] Str > [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] Agi ?

 

kalbear

Strength is better than agility. Both will likely proc 300 agility, but 90 strength is (for now) better than 90 agility.

On a side note, anyone know whether you can equip both darkmoon cards at the same time?

 

oddie

Thanks.

The first post in this thread stated that the darkmoon faire decks have a shared cooldown.
Because of the shared cooldown it may not be worth it.

Kalbear (or anyone) can you explain why the Strength one is currently better then the Agility one?
Is this because it will produce more Feral Attack Power?

 

killets

In TBC, we didn't have Savage Roar, which only scales with AP. In WOTLK we do, which is why strength > agility in most cases now. At some absurdly high amounts of strength, agi overtakes strength, but given that all kitty gear right now is itemized for massive agility, you can be certain that strength will be your best statistic to stack.

 

Grimcat

As a raiding kitty, I am reluctant to take the Strength deck over the Agility deck. The Agility deck benefits both bear and cat, while the Strength is mostly of benefit to the cat. For pure dps the Strength deck is the way to go, but is the extra dps worth more than the flexibility of the Agility deck?

 

david0925

In reality you're probably better off with Essence of Gossimer + Defender's Code (or double stamina trinket, armor even after its nerfed state is worth something to me because I'm not a big advocate of stacking stamina unconditionally) unless you're working on an absolute avoidance/mitigation set, then maybe the darkmoon card will become useful. The extra agility proccing whenever it feels like it doesn't feel reliable to me as a tank, at all.

Maniq is my hero

 

Stonehenge

This might be the wrong place for this, but the above poster said he would take str over agi for kitty dps. My thought has always been to take agi over str, because agi adds to crit. I had been away from the game for a bit, but does thought process not hold true?

Thanks for the posts, as always this site rocks for good info.