Feral Trinkets - Page 3

Immortal · 01/04/09, 10:47 AM

It's right in existing instances, but seriously you will be OK without enchants and with str+crit gems now. All this discussion is meaningless without a presumption, that Ulduar bosses will be harder and more dependant on gear.

Ugljesa · 01/04/09, 10:57 AM

You're also mitigating more damage now than you will do after the patch (assuming you're using armor trinkets).

And while my healers might not be going oom, they're not dropping me cause I don't have enough health either. I survive through most "oh shit" things and if it really hits the fan, SI and I'm fine (and seeing as SI will be changed to "current maximum" health in the patch, it will be even more effective). I'd rather make the healing a bit easier on them (I really don't like seeing several big hits in a row coming through to me instead of being avoided) than add another few thousand health to my already sufficient health pool. But that's just me of course, it comes down to personal preference I guess. Oh and Alchemist trinket is pure awesomeness, would definitely use it if I had it, beautiful mix of stamina and dodge.

PS thanks to Kalbear, I really didn't pay too much attention to that trinket (again, Rawr whore and it doesen't rank it too high)... I've just bought it from badges (got too many anyway) and seriously considering it.

Fallenangel · 01/04/09, 12:42 PM

There isn't a "best" tanking gear because the definition of best varies per encounter. Right now the only hard encounter is 3-drake Sarth, and for that stamina is king, so you'll want to gear up for that.
Look at SWP - at first stamina is important surviving a stun on kalec or a stomp on brutallus. Then you needed max avoidance to not be gibbed by the adds on m'uru. KJ didn't even melee and needed a threat set (less of an issue now due to itemization, naturally). So you build up several gear sets and use as needed - this is usually most pronounced in trinkets since they tend to focus on a very limited number of stats.
That said...druids have the best scaling with stamina (compared to the other tanking classes) and thus shared pieces like jewelery that have it will tend to be good for bears.

DrFurious · 01/09/09, 3:10 AM

Any evaluation for the proc on [Extract of Necromantic Power]? Apparently it works with bleeds and given the importance of rip and rake it could be a strong option.

Also of note may be [Chuchu's Tiny Box of Horrors] which is super easy to get and from my experience procs about twice per minute (might be a bit generous) putting it near some of the heroic ones depending on how much you value haste or hit.

Corbetti · 01/09/09, 11:35 AM

Does Living Root of the Wildheart suffer from any kind of diminishing returns post-70? If not the 4K armour proc seems quite attractive.

kalbear · 01/09/09, 12:28 PM

I've only done limited testing on it, but it still appears to proc at level 80 with about the same frequency (35% uptime abouts). I'm planning on using it in raiding this week; I'll let you know how my testing goes.

Mijae · 01/09/09, 4:07 PM

Originally Posted by DrFurious

Any evaluation for the proc on [Extract of Necromantic Power]? Apparently it works with bleeds and given the importance of rip and rake it could be a strong option.

Some of my initial math puts this trinket at or near best in slot. The value will depend on raid buffs and my modeling for spell damage isn't really complete. Assuming 100% uptime for Rip and Rake, we get 50 bleed ticks per minute.

Assuming geared 8% melee hit gives roughly 10% spell hit, with misery reduced to 4% misses.

The average base damage is 1050. Modified by at least one increase, I'll use just Earth and Moon (13%) increasing to 1187 damage.

Spell crit damage modifier is 1.5 and should be affected by meta (1.545). Average crit damage is then 1833.

Spell crit rate will depend on crit rating and Ret or Moonkin buffs. This might be around 20-25% crit. I'll assume 25%.

Are spells on a 1 or 2 roll system? If 1 roll...

50 ticks * 10% chance * (1833*0.25 + 1187*(1-0.25-0.04)) = 6505 dmg/min = 108 dps

This is on top of the passive crit rate value.

HengeMaker · 01/09/09, 4:20 PM

I was under the impression that the 2 "best in slot"(I use qutoes since this is somewhat subjective since Stam and mit/avoidance have different values depending on the situation) trinkets post patch were the darkmoon card and Defenders code. Code is still going to be one of the 2 best mitigation/avoidance trinkets available, no?

What method was used to determine that the crab trinket(which provides comparably minimal avoidance even if you gem for pure Agi) was a higher rung than Defenders, or even Essence of gossamer(alot more stam, with what would seem to be a comparable amount of mitigation from procs).

I'm not trying to pick... but seems off to my eye.

HengeMaker · 01/09/09, 5:59 PM

Originally Posted by SkunkApe

Why would we automatically assume they have the maximum of 3 Dragon's Eye in their gear already? The only people that can even use the trinket are Jewelcrafters. Therefore, there is no point in not comparing its best case usage against the other trinkets. It's silly to exclude it from the list on the basis of "you aren't going to be putting BoP gems in that because we already assumed you were using 3."

It may not be the best, but it deserves a mention for anyone thinking about Jewelcrafting considering how ridiculous easy they are to make.

His reasoning was this: If you're a JC, you will use the maximum number of BoP gems you can. So unless you had less than 3 sockets in your gear to begin with(unlikely), using the trinket doesn't allow you to use any more BoP gems(if you socket them in the trinket, they're coming out of a different slot).
So when evaluating the relative values of trinkets, you can't credit the trinket with the value of a BoP gem, but rather must use BoE values to get an accurate estimate of its impact on your overall stats. You can't examine pieces of gear in a perfect vacuum and expect to get meaningful results. It would be like saying that a 500 stamina trinket that didn't let you equip any armor in other slots was the best. You have to take trade-offs into account.

I believe thats the point he was trying to make.

killets · 01/09/09, 9:17 PM

Originally Posted by HengeMaker

I was under the impression that the 2 "best in slot"(I use qutoes since this is somewhat subjective since Stam and mit/avoidance have different values depending on the situation) trinkets post patch were the darkmoon card and Defenders code. Code is still going to be one of the 2 best mitigation/avoidance trinkets available, no?

What method was used to determine that the crab trinket(which provides comparably minimal avoidance even if you gem for pure Agi) was a higher rung than Defenders, or even Essence of gossamer(alot more stam, with what would seem to be a comparable amount of mitigation from procs).

I'm not trying to pick... but seems off to my eye.

Again, the tanking trinket rankings shouldn't be looked anything remotely close to the "end-all", since all I did was try to rank them according to Rawr's default rankings circa 2.1.3, with stat equivalent points estimated by me. Tanking is a sort of art, in that you gear based on the encounter. A fight like Sartharion3 would require tailoring your gear for survival, whereas most fights you could probably gear towards pure mitigation and avoidance.

I made the trinket rankings based on 3.0.8's armor nerf, since the days left that we can still benefit from armor trinkets gets smaller and smaller each passing day. Pre-nerf, I believe that Offering of Sacrifice, and Defender's Code are currently the 2 hands down best trinkets in the game, and I don't even think there's competition, as nothing is in the same stratosphere currently.

Santorayo · 01/10/09, 6:23 AM

Any evaluation for the proc on [Extract of Necromatic Power]? Apparently it works with bleeds and given the importance of rip and rake it could be a strong option.

Is this just an asumption or has any one actually tested if the trinket proccs from cat bleeds?

a civilian · 01/10/09, 7:14 AM

Originally Posted by Mijae

Some of my initial math puts this trinket at or near best in slot. The value will depend on raid buffs and my modeling for spell damage isn't really complete. Assuming 100% uptime for Rip and Rake, we get 50 bleed ticks per minute.

Assuming geared 8% melee hit gives roughly 10% spell hit, with misery reduced to 4% misses.

The average base damage is 1050. Modified by at least one increase, I'll use just Earth and Moon (13%) increasing to 1187 damage.

Spell crit damage modifier is 1.5 and should be affected by meta (1.545). Average crit damage is then 1833.

Spell crit rate will depend on crit rating and Ret or Moonkin buffs. This might be around 20-25% crit. I'll assume 25%.

Are spells on a 1 or 2 roll system? If 1 roll...

50 ticks * 10% chance * (1833*0.25 + 1187*(1-0.25-0.04)) = 6505 dmg/min = 108 dps

This is on top of the passive crit rate value.

The [Item not found!] proc effect is said to have a 15 second internal cooldown (from wowhead comments and warlock trinket discussion). From your discussion, the proc does (1833*0.25 + 1187*(1-0.25-0.04)) = 1301 damage and has a proc rate, when cooldown is up, of 1/12 Hz. 1/(proc rate) = 12 sec is hence the average time after the cooldown is up before the next proc occurs, so the effective proc rate, taking the cooldown into consideration, is 1/(15 sec + 12 sec) = 1/27 Hz. The actual dps value of the trinket's proc effect, using your assumptions, is then

(1/27 Hz) (1301 damage) = 48 dps.

Mijae · 01/10/09, 8:07 AM

Originally Posted by a civilian

The [Item not found!] proc effect is said to have a 15 second internal cooldown (from wowhead comments and warlock trinket discussion). From your discussion, the proc does (1833*0.25 + 1187*(1-0.25-0.04)) = 1301 damage and has a proc rate, when cooldown is up, of 1/12 Hz. 1/(proc rate) = 12 sec is hence the average time after the cooldown is up before the next proc occurs, so the effective proc rate, taking the cooldown into consideration, is 1/(15 sec + 12 sec) = 1/27 Hz. The actual dps value of the trinket's proc effect, using your assumptions, is then

(1/27 Hz) (1301 damage) = 48 dps.

Ahh.. missed the internal cooldown. It did seem to be too good to be true. This puts it under [Mirror of Truth].

oddie · 01/23/09, 2:17 PM

For a Feral DPS kitty spec - main focus is raiding, is the STR deck better then AGI ?

[Darkmoon Card: Greatness] Str > [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] Agi ?

kalbear · 01/23/09, 2:56 PM

Strength is better than agility. Both will likely proc 300 agility, but 90 strength is (for now) better than 90 agility.

On a side note, anyone know whether you can equip both darkmoon cards at the same time?