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Old 01/13/09, 7:59 PM   #151
Gurth
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Draenor (EU)
I don't really see the point of dumping wild growth, even with the cooldown on it.

I see wild growth used on cooldown anyway just cause it's a too powerful spell:

- in a tank and spank fight, it's 1 hot more on the tank. The good thing about WG is that it ticks every second (less chanche of wasted ticks than rej or regrowth) and the cooldown match its duration. That means 100% uptime, roughly 70% of 3xlifbloom stack HPS plus whatever splash damage melee/ot can eventually get. without you even worry about targeting them. And it's really cheap aswell.

- in a splash damage fight it will still be used on cooldown but its efficiency scales dramatically due to the number of targets available. The fact it also auto select the targets in needs of heal around the one you cast it is invaluable in a whole number of situations, especially if you play 25 mans.

Yes it will not be 40-50% of our healing like it is now, but do you really think that you can skip it? I don't think so, the spell mechanics and scaling make it just good to have.

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Old 01/14/09, 2:04 AM   #152
Whïspur
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Crushridge
[deleted cuz my idea was fail]

Last edited by Whïspur : 01/14/09 at 10:25 PM.

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Old 01/14/09, 5:25 AM   #153
Anaram
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
I've a hard time picturing a fight where WG wouldn't be worth more than few extra % of spellpower seeing how at minimum it can be used as an extra singletarget hot.

In a hectic fight it's difficult to always find the time to decide where to use singletarget heals. My personal rule of thumb is to use wild growth when unsure, smart targeting gives it a pretty decent chance to be helpful.

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Old 01/14/09, 8:13 AM   #154
Vienuolis
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Karazhan (EU)
Haste and SP

I missed this information in forum, so need to ask you about it.

How i know SP benefit depends from cast time. Also i know what Haste reducing cast time. So, does it mean what haste reducing benefit from SP?

The same with talents, whats reducing cast time.

sry if question is stupid^^

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Old 01/14/09, 9:48 AM   #155
• malthrin
stalemate associate
 
malthrin's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
@Whispur:

Originally Posted by Playered View Post
Things this thread is not for:
  • Talking about Dreamstate or any build with more than 18 points in Balance (this needed repeating).
This bears repeating. No, +120 spellpower is not worth losing 20% haste on hots and Wild Growth.

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Old 01/14/09, 11:17 AM   #156
uliko
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kor'gall (EU)
No, haste or cast time reduction talents does not reduce spell coefficients.

Why hit food is bad
"You have to spend 10 seconds to apply it, you have to fish it and you cant use the feast."

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Old 01/14/09, 12:26 PM   #157
Ynox
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dethecus (EU)
Also you loose 8% from GotEM which is a 0.12 Sec cut from the Global CD, which is worth more than 8% Haste

As you see in this post with Hastecalculation for different situation and this post about how GotEM is applied

so if you have a 5 GotEM+ Celestial Focus + Moonkin/Retriaura + Wrath of Air totem you need at least 118 Haste Rating for a 1 Sec GCD
if you have a 5 GotEM + Moonkin/Retriaura + Wrath of Air totem you need 220 Haste Rating to hit a 1 Sec GCD.
if you miss 2 Points of GotEM and WG for Lunar Guidance you need with same buffs 341 Haste for a 1 Sec GCD.

so if you have no CF but 5 GotEM you need 7,43% less haste than if you only get 3 Points in GotEM but have CF. Not 5% like stated above. Haste calculation is not 8%-3%=5% ! CF is worth more than 98.37 Haste Rating (3% Haste equivalent) but 1 Point in GotEM is even worth more than 6% Gear Haste, but only for those spells.

Last edited by Ynox : 01/14/09 at 12:49 PM.

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Old 01/14/09, 6:27 PM   #158
Playered
Soda Popinski
 
Playered's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
New/interesting post by GC (here)

Main points:
- Replenish is known to be a poor talent.
- Living Seed is not considered that bad.
- Honestly, there is a technical limitation that prevents hots (and dots) from being able to crit. We are removing that limitation though, so who knows.
- Haste and armor pen are things we put on lower level gear to make it lower level gear. Higher level gear will be more suitablly optimized.

The third point is the most interesting as this will (finally) give us the possibility of having a means of crit rating being non-shit on our gear. If this did happen though I assume the base would be nerfed slightly due to the general increase and additional scaling we would end up with.

Originally Posted by GC
I did not say your hots will just start critting in the next patch. I said we had the technology to do that if we think it is necessary. We would certainly have to nerf Resto in other ways to compensate for those higher healing numbers.
Follwup response which seemed to agree with my assumption.

Last edited by Playered : 01/14/09 at 8:09 PM.

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Old 01/14/09, 7:00 PM   #159
Septus
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Ravenholdt
I don't know why the affliction lock and shadow priest work around wouldn't work for HoTs.

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Old 01/14/09, 7:28 PM   #160
Raikagi
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Septus View Post
I don't know why the affliction lock and shadow priest work around wouldn't work for HoTs.
If it came down to that I'd prefer the Shadow Priest solution added to Tree of Life rather than the Pandemic solution. Allowing HoTs to 'crit' for extra healing adds a random element to spells that really isn't needed, and thinking back to the times having a HoT crit would save someone it's basically...Never. Having a flat % of healing added to all ticks would be very nice though, and make crit just as useful.

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Old 01/15/09, 3:34 AM   #161
Ynox
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dethecus (EU)
Originally Posted by Raikagi View Post
If it came down to that I'd prefer the Shadow Priest solution added to Tree of Life rather than the Pandemic solution. Allowing HoTs to 'crit' for extra healing adds a random element to spells that really isn't needed, and thinking back to the times having a HoT crit would save someone it's basically...Never. Having a flat % of healing added to all ticks would be very nice though, and make crit just as useful.
Totally aggree with that because the Crits would often be at the wrong time, Resto Druid is about constancy, your hots should give the other healers time to react, if there is something like this. A buffer of Hots which can or cant crit is worthless because you get more worst case scenarios.

I think that the crit % will somehow work into the SP to Heal calculation will make the gear choices more exciting.

Now RJ Ticks are 0.647* SP+ Base Tick

Could be a factor like RJ Tick = 0.55 SP*(1+ Critchance)+Base Tick (at around 17% crit its the same like it is now, the same as Shadow Priests if I'm not totally wrong)

or just a SP converter RJ Tick = 0.6*(SP+Critrating/2) or something like that.

All numbers how it could be are just out of the blue, how it could be implented to work with the constancy of your hots.

Last edited by Ynox : 01/15/09 at 3:45 AM.

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Old 01/15/09, 7:21 AM   #162
Anaram
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
Regarding GCs post: Interestingly enough the original poster refers to haste & crit while GC then responds on haste & penetration.

Anyway, I'm not sure this applies to resto druids in any real fashion. What are they going to replace crit or haste with on higher level gear? Hit? Spell penetration? Expertise? Resilience? Defence? Dodge? Parry? Armor penetration? Block rating? Block value? Strength? Agility? Spell resistances? Bonus armor?

They could add more sockets, that's about it. We are already getting pretty much every stat that is useful to us. They could start itemizing less stats on gear when we got up tiers instead of more and the gear would get better. Pretty much every other spec will at the same time be getting more stats on gear, though, so I'm doubting this would actually happen.

Mark my words though, this is what's going to happen: we'll get some form of crit scaling on hots. Blizzard might make some time debating this (and then some more time rationalizing why it isn't needed) but they'll eventually do it. They did it with pretty much everyone who wasn't getting 100% crit damage modifier (except pure arcane mages who "only" get 75%) and they did it with both the dot heavy specs in game.

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Old 01/15/09, 10:40 AM   #163
Blackpatch
Great Tiger
 
Blackpatch's Avatar
 
Altpatch
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
Deleted.

Last edited by Blackpatch : 01/15/09 at 2:18 PM. Reason: outdated concept of living seed mechanics

CONSERVE YOUR RAGE AND LUST

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Old 01/15/09, 11:55 AM   #164
Bull@ER
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Earthen Ring
Originally Posted by Blackpatch View Post
Ghostcrawler's not getting it. The problem is not that Living Seed uses crit. The problem is that Living Seed's spell mechanics are bad. When Living Seed goes up on a target, the next hit on that target causes a Living Seed proc that heals them prior to application of the damage from the hit. This means that a target has to be at less than full health when the next hit lands for Living Seed to do anything at all.

For Living Seed to be really useful, it needs to be changed to a PWS-like mechanism that absorbs damage or an Earth Shield-like mechanism that heals damage immediately after the hit lands. I'd obviously prefer the former.
Worse still, the seed is only 30% of the amount healed. We're not paladins. We don't do 20k heals (at least I haven't). The odds of having a living seed proc and be fully effective healing are pretty small and even if it were to happen, the heal would be pretty small, too. Hardly worth 3 deep resto points.

Now if Living Seed caused crit overheals to increase the target's maximum health by the amount of the overheal for 15 seconds...that'd be something. (the 'something' might be 'OP')

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Old 01/15/09, 11:58 AM   #165
CowTree
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Uldaman
I tend to agree and disagree with that. While I love the idea of a PWS-like mechanic, my main problem with Living Seed is the cost. I think the better solution to Living Seed would be to reduce it to a 1 point talent and buff/move some other things around in the tree. An example would be switch it with living touch & add nourish to living touch. That would also kick the problem the developers have with the utility of Nourish.

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