Resto (PvE) Healing Discussion - Page 122

Merendel · 08/14/09, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by goodolarchie

That being said, if you keep both these talents and start gearing for t9 crit, you'll have a really fat heal. Getting an extra 1500 bonus healing on a long spell like that, you're going to crit HT for 18-20k. I dunno, some people like seeing big numbers.

Not sure why you feel that is so special however. We've been seeing pallies crank out HL crits that size or bigger for a couple of tiers now. They also have the talents and gear to crank those out faster and more consistently than we can with HT. Sure the huge NS+HT crits are nice when they happen but as far as using it as a cast spell... I think your better off tossing a hot and launching two nourishes or just let your pallies cover the large heal bombs. A pair of nourishes on a hoted target will put out the same healing faster as winding up a HT.

Grizabella · 08/14/09, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Merendel

Not sure why you feel that is so special however. We've been seeing pallies crank out HL crits that size or bigger for a couple of tiers now. They also have the talents and gear to crank those out faster and more consistently than we can with HT. Sure the huge NS+HT crits are nice when they happen but as far as using it as a cast spell... I think your better off tossing a hot and launching two nourishes or just let your pallies cover the large heal bombs. A pair of nourishes on a hoted target will put out the same healing faster as winding up a HT.

For me NS' biggest benefit has always been macro'ing it to Rebirth.

Kirbie44 · 08/14/09, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Grizabella

For me NS' biggest benefit has always been macro'ing it to Rebirth.

You should try NS+HT right when you Rebirth someone, in encounters like Thorim (HM) or Freya when 5k damage can 1 shot your Rebirth'd.

Playered · 08/14/09, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by Kirbie44

NS is a powerful tool. Nourish is also good (situationally). Take Iron Council hardmode for example. On our kill, I put out over 9k Effective HPS. I did not use Nourish once. I used Healing Touch twice, one time coupled with NS. Which I find funny/wierd, because I don't remember throwing a full casted HT bomb (and it did no overhealing!).

One other thing to notice, is we don't bring a Holy Paladin to raid. Our tank healing is left up to our Disc Priest, but mainly our Resto Shaman. Our Resto Shaman is quite a beast, as they make the best tank healers in the game. Basically, even without a holy paladin, I still don't use nourish, and do very effective healing. I commend blizzard to buff nourish with talents, giving us the ability to be a more versatile class, making us a better tank/debuff healer with it. I guess there is no wrong in picking up the talents, but I feel that dropping NS is NOT the way to do it, as it comes in handy in more than enough situations.

IC Hardmode Kill WMO

I'm sorry but you really trying to use Iron Council (HM) as an example of how awesome you are as a Druid at healing and as a basis for Nourish needing buffing? that is as stupid as using Patchwerk as an example for WG needing buffing.

To make us more versatile we need some changes to Nourish (not more boosts but design changes) and a nerf to blanket hotting (removing 4T8 will help too) and a general healing change within the game among us all.

Rijndael · 08/14/09, 6:30 PM

Originally Posted by Playered

To make us more versatile we need some changes to Nourish (not more boosts but design changes) and a nerf to blanket hotting (removing 4T8 will help too) and a general healing change within the game among us all.

With 3.2 changes and the Nourish glyph resto druids probably have more HPS on one target than paladins do. Resto druids are probably a bit too strong now, as we are exceptional tank healers and exceptional raid healers. (A good benchmark of single target HPS is racing people to heal spider tanks on Mimiron trash to full.) One of our last weaknesses, a lack of a decent spammable direct heal, has been addressed. I guess if we had a weakness now, it would be that we lack tank and raid saving cooldowns. However, to make up for this, our base level of performance is extremely strong.

I don't think blanket hotting is going anywhere, I think it's a pretty unique way to heal, and Blizzard won't remove it. The way to address blanket hotting being our answer to _everything_ is to add encounters where it's a weak strategy (e.g. how Razorscale used to be before we got gear).

Fallenangel · 08/14/09, 8:31 PM

It's this unique niche (hot blanketing) that's a balance problem in the long run. If Blizzard wish to move forward with making 10-man raids as a true alternative path for raiding, then having such wild variations between healers is going to greatly favor groups with the right healing setup.
There are other disparities but this is a pretty glaring one.

MalachiArrow · 08/14/09, 8:55 PM

The thing with nourish is, it is not that mana efficient, if you are spamming nourish, which i have to do in the new 10 man as it has been suggested, i 2 healed it with a holy pally. it is a great quick medium sized heal, but i cant keep it up for that long. I feel like since the patch i've been having mana problems, but the patch notes say nothing to suggest i should be. This makes me wonder because i have even gemed for spirit to help it along since i am at 2.3k sp in tree unbuffed anyway. Has anyone else been having this problem?

And as to keeping the talent in NS, i think it is entirely worth it. I keep a macroed 'oh crap' button with NS and HT, i use it on the MT, a healer, or a dps with a particularly important job like spell steals or interrupts. What you gain by putting that one point some where else, is not worth possibly wiping the raid. that one heal can cost you the raid.

Onizukaone · 08/15/09, 7:08 AM

I think when you got a lot of haste, you can take a point in gift of earthmother and put it in emp touch, but I don't know when you got enough haste to do that. Someone did a calcul ?
(sry for my english)

Kalaya · 08/15/09, 9:03 AM

Originally Posted by Onizukaone

I think when you got a lot of haste, you can take a point in gift of earthmother and put it in emp touch, but I don't know when you got enough haste to do that. Someone did a calcul ?
(sry for my english)

1.5 * 0.84 (4/5 GotEM) / 1.03 (Moonkin/Swift Retribution aura) / 1.05 (Wrath of Air) = 1.1650.

So 16.5% haste is what you are looking at with 4/5 GotEM.

For me personally this is currently impossible. With a fairly heavy emphasis on haste (where I could get the pieces) I still have 'only' 10.98%, which is just over the cap for 5/5 GotEM

Merendel · 08/15/09, 4:21 PM

Originally Posted by MalachiArrow

The thing with nourish is, it is not that mana efficient, if you are spamming nourish, which i have to do in the new 10 man as it has been suggested, i 2 healed it with a holy pally. it is a great quick medium sized heal, but i cant keep it up for that long. I feel like since the patch i've been having mana problems, but the patch notes say nothing to suggest i should be. This makes me wonder because i have even gemed for spirit to help it along since i am at 2.3k sp in tree unbuffed anyway. Has anyone else been having this problem?

Replenishment (the buff not the resto talent) was slightly nerfed in 3.2. It wasn't much but it did swing my regen from being neutral even without innervate to slowly depleting and needing to innervate if the fight is going to be longish. 3.2 also buffed MP5 on gear but we see little of that as we get the bulk of our regen through spirit and there just are not that many good pieces for us with raw mp5 on them.

The best solution I've come up with to mana issues is to use innervate early. Do not forget we don't get a full mana bar back from it anymore. Pop it at around 60% and it should recharge most of your bar and be ready again by the time you drop back down into the 50% range. I've found that even with liberal use of nourish I can last till partway through my third innervate CD before I need to start reaching for mana pots. Considering that is a minimum of a 9 minute fight it sounds about right. If I have to go longer I can swap in some more Regen oriented gear pieces and trinkets or just be more conservative with my spells.

MalachiArrow · 08/15/09, 9:28 PM

Originally Posted by Merendel

Replenishment (the buff not the resto talent) was slightly nerfed in 3.2. It wasn't much but it did swing my regen from being neutral even without innervate to slowly depleting and needing to innervate if the fight is going to be longish. 3.2 also buffed MP5 on gear but we see little of that as we get the bulk of our regen through spirit and there just are not that many good pieces for us with raw mp5 on them.

The best solution I've come up with to mana issues is to use innervate early. Do not forget we don't get a full mana bar back from it anymore. Pop it at around 60% and it should recharge most of your bar and be ready again by the time you drop back down into the 50% range. I've found that even with liberal use of nourish I can last till partway through my third innervate CD before I need to start reaching for mana pots. Considering that is a minimum of a 9 minute fight it sounds about right. If I have to go longer I can swap in some more Regen oriented gear pieces and trinkets or just be more conservative with my spells.

yeah, i have very little mp5 of note on my gear, its all spirit and intellect. I have already started doing your suggestion of using innervate early. i find myself using it two times a fight sometimes, but that worries me because i NEVER used to innervate EVER maybe once a raid night, and it was probably in IC 25man if i did. and i am one of the tank healers when we do general v, so if i cant fix it, im going to be in trouble :-(

ganuard · 08/16/09, 4:16 AM

Originally Posted by MalachiArrow

yeah, i have very little mp5 of note on my gear, its all spirit and intellect. I have already started doing your suggestion of using innervate early. i find myself using it two times a fight sometimes, but that worries me because i NEVER used to innervate EVER maybe once a raid night, and it was probably in IC 25man if i did. and i am one of the tank healers when we do general v, so if i cant fix it, im going to be in trouble :-(

Unless you're doing hard mode it really isn't an issue either way.

How many healers are people bringing to their raids these days? We've been running with 5 but I wonder if that's why my mana always seems tighter then I imagine all of your mana is.

Vachekiri · 08/16/09, 7:56 AM

Originally Posted by MalachiArrow

yeah, i have very little mp5 of note on my gear, its all spirit and intellect. I have already started doing your suggestion of using innervate early. i find myself using it two times a fight sometimes, but that worries me because i NEVER used to innervate EVER maybe once a raid night, and it was probably in IC 25man if i did. and i am one of the tank healers when we do general v, so if i cant fix it, im going to be in trouble :-(

If you have issues as a resto druid with mana regeneration and usage I think you should first check what spells you use most. Nourish for instance drains your mana pretty fast if you spam it. If you refresh lifebloom instead of letting it bloom, you might also be in trouble. I've never had mana issues, sometimes in a few hardmodes. But I always let my lifeblooms bloom and use the cheapest spells. I use nourish too, but not much. I have no MP5 on my gear and always make use of my spirit. I can only advice to check WWS stats, and if that's not the issue, try and get more spirit. I do feel that since the spirit nerf it has become harder not to go oom, but druids still have a pretty good mana regen in stead of some other healing classes.

Fallenangel · 08/16/09, 8:53 AM

If you're not doing hardmodes, you're not playing the same game. There is just no way around it, and discussing mana situations or spell usages or whatnot is nearly pointless when it's the playing field is so different. I'm not trying to be patronizing here, it's just how it is.

ECZO · 08/16/09, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Kalaya

1.5 * 0.84 (4/5 GotEM) / 1.03 (Moonkin/Swift Retribution aura) / 1.05 (Wrath of Air) = 1.1650.

So 16.5% haste is what you are looking at with 4/5 GotEM.

For me personally this is currently impossible. With a fairly heavy emphasis on haste (where I could get the pieces) I still have 'only' 10.98%, which is just over the cap for 5/5 GotEM

You aren't considering raid buffs, with a moonkin or retribution paladin and wrath of air totem you need 541 haste rating in order to drop one point in GotEM which is quite obtainable with ulduar gear and crafts.