To this and the above post:
1. Make a list of 245/258 gear and you will be above the haste cap without CF = 359. Hence getting CF is no good, particularly since Natural Perfection seems a lot more interesting now.
2. On the other hand, all gear should be dedicated to having crit since it's that or haste. Get it through your heads, people. You're not trading SP for crit. It's either haste which is pretty meh past the soft cap or crit which affects 50% of your heals. Which is it gonna be?

Some slots don't have a good crit item - for instance legs have no 258 with crit and spirit. and the crit/haste ones drop from Anub. The same goes for the shoulders slot. So, you will be using some haste gear if you're going for maximum SP, and that will put you over the cap.

The only real changes are to if you want more haste past the soft cap or more crit, I have no idea where you are getting this idea that I said to drop sp or healing talents for CF, I specifically said to drop revitalize (in case your are incapable of reading correctly Grizabella, which you have already proven once) all this talent does if give the dps a LITTLE boost, its not enough that the talent should be considered mandatory.

Now on to more talk about stacking crit, everyone here knows or should know that rejuv and wg are our top heals in most scenarios (raid healing being a big one). Now the t9 4 set gives our rejuv ticks a chance to crit, which is a very big change, especially if your blanketing the raid with rejuv, that is why i suggest getting a lot more crit than we normally would need. Another thing is the 2 set bonus to nourish which already has a lot of crit. Glyphed nourish with the set bonus and crit will be your best friend for getting up that dps that just took a spike of damage (yes SW is a million times better, but there is that CD to take into account). These set bonuses are really a raid healers dream, yes the instant heal from rejuv was nice, but now a druid that is blanketing the raid with rejuv gets the ability to almost guarantee a nourish crit if someone needs it, especially with the more crit you have, that is why crit is looking to be more important in the future

Pretty much my post-4pc T9 spec will probably look more like this:

Talent Spec

Really can't see a reason that makes me want to go grab CF or even NG at the moment.

Do we already know, if 4p t9 proc NG ?
If so, I guess I would consider it a great increase in "spothealing", because it should be up like 90% ?

Resulting in something link this for me:
Talent Spec

I have a problem about flask/foodbuff usage. On 10man toc hardmodes and in the progression runs we have now on beasts 25 I was forced to use mp5 flask in combination with spirit buff. I have mana problems on this fights where I need to do alot of nourish/regrowh (comparing to the rejuv/wg spam with duck trinket back in ulduar). For now I haven't changed the way I gem my gear (sp / other gems just if set bonus require). I run on 413mp5 unbuffed (740 raidbuffed) and I am forced almost everytime at the end of p2 (on toc25 hard) to ask for an extra innervate. As well, on Anub arak (10man/hard) I always go in p3 at the edge with mana . Should I still use the duck or I need to drop a bit the non stop casts ? Cause I feel that now the OH I generetae is more in vain that it was in ulduar, the healing output droped in comparation to my fellow healers and mana usage is terrible.
Anyway, this crit thing looks like a good idea, but I dont see it to reliable. The gear in toc has alot of haste, with balanced crit. I can't see how to boost the crit that good, without breaking tier / going under haste cap. I am more for the getting more haste to get nourish to 1sec with ng.

We have cleared NRB 10 Heroic (it's not quite as bad on mana in 10s though) and are still progression pulling NRB Heroic on 25s (into phase 3 now but with too many DPS doing stupid things and dying in phase 2 to finish). Between our 10s success and those progression pulls in 25s, I have observed some things amongst our druids that may be useful anecdotally to you. In phase 1, we have 2 Paladins and a Disc Priest primary tank healing and a 3-tank switch strategy. We also had 3 druid healers on raid. Any rate, in phase 1, all of us were predominantly on tanks with raid healers doing some spot to the raid (WG on melee after stomp, RJ on folks with snobolds or fire, etc.). My strategy on Phase 1 is RG, LBx3, RJ on the active tank. I also setup RG, RJ, LBx1 on incoming tank right before switch and then add in 2 more LBs as Gormok gets on him. Refresh RG and RJ on tanks that still have stacks and maybe single-Nourish them if I need to catch them up. I'll also throw in a Nourish or a Swiftmend in on raid (someone who stood in fire too long) or very occasionally on tanks if a primary healer is snobold stunned and it is necessary to catch up.

On our initial attempts, another druid member with much higher haste, spec'd for CF, etc. took more of a hot plus Nourish spam strategy on tanks. His Nourish is pretty much ~1 sec spam. By the end of phase 1, there were cases where, even self-innervating, he was in a bad, bad way by the beginning of phase 2. But, although he was expending more mana, my effective throughput on the tanks was significantly higher. Also, while I stressed mana a bit, I was very well positioned to make it through phase 2 and phase 3 (assuming use of my own Innervates only). This is with Flaring Growth and hybrid throughput/regen trinks equipped and using Frost Wyrm/Fish Feast combo for consumable buffs. I definitely Innervate early (around 65% mana on first use), and then on every 3 min cooldown thereafter on this fight but it is workable.

I really think the best strategy when we are riding underneath a primary tank heal should continue to look like what I have described (i.e. RJ, LBx3, RG, WG that hits melee and perhaps tanks, Swiftmend or Nature's Swiftness if the tank hits a huge spike, and Nourish only as an occasional fill if absolutely required but certainly not spammed). Phase 1 definitely has some consistent spikes and tank insta-gibs even in best case scenarios and I know that has caused some folks to hit the panic button and start spamming cast time spells. However, even in this extreme situation, general best-practice theory of druid-assist tank healing is still relevant and applicable -- we are simply trying to even out the damage profile and buy the primary healer time to finish a cast. We need to resist the urge to act like a primary healer by spamming direct heal spells but instead leverage heal-team synergies and play a complementary not competitive role. Not only is this better for our mana, it provides better effective healing.

EDIT: Most of what I talked about was in reference to 25s Heroic, but as you mention 10s Heroic as well, I'll note that the strategy we successfully employed there is to two-heal NRB using a Paladin primary tank healing with me on complementary tank and raid heals. It's a two-tank rotation but I use exactly the same RG, LBx3, RJ strategy I mentioned above and we've 1-shot it both weeks we've attempted without any real tank danger and even more mana to spare as I'm only rotating on 2 instead of 3 tanks.

Until phase 3, I took it upon myself to fully hot the tanks, with WG where needed. My guild would let the warrior tank first, with a Soul stone, till he died or reached 5 stacks. Hand of Protection afterwords of course. With no holy paladin, the lack of Beacon was noticeable.


This should be kept in mind. Phase 1 and 2 mana are harsh. During transition, let your OO5SR work. Let the shamans or paladin top off the raid. Phase 3 is easy on mana. WG/Rejuve blanket prior to the stomp/charge, which really isn't even needed. Healing p3 is basically a joke (assuming you have a prot paladin). I kept tank hots up the entire time, but again only to buffer the Ferocious butt.

When you gain empowered light or empowered darkness from getting 100 stacks of the buff you gain 20% mana so regen really isn't an issue at all since you should get it at least once or twice a fight. So full throughput is better on twins.

Also on the topic of revitalize while making sure to keep a rejuv on myself at all times since i was a ball grabber revitalize gave me almost as much mana as replenishment
Mana gain on twin valks kill

With 2 restos in the raid speced 3/3 revitalize the mana gain from it was great. 83188 mana total not counting pets
Revitalize Mana gain

If you really believe this I hope to god your a shadow or disc dps priest. What good is a healer giving the raid dps a slight buff if the tank dies. Granted if our raid group is minus a feral/boomkin for whatever reason I'll throw faerie fire on the boss to help out, but I'm not going to start casting wrath or moonfire spam just because no one needs healing at that particular time. Thinking that you NEED to help the dps being a healer is just stupid, yes they might thank you for it, but like I said if the tank or dps dies it can cause a wipe pretty easily. With enrage timers seeming to be getting longer all the time you helping the dps should never be your primary concern, ever.

With that type of philosophy, why should a tank ever use a cooldown? Their job is to store damage for the healers to heal and keep threat above the dps. They shouldn't try to help out others jobs in any way whatsoever correct? Maybe a DK shouldn't spec into additional cooldowns so he can focus more on threat?

If a Paladin was giving up healing tanks in order to do some minor DPS boosting on melee then you would have a point but pretty much nothing is "sacrificed" for taking Revitalize and casting RJ/WG while raiding and it comes across as you saying that we are (especially as you stated you were the main raid healer?).

Honestly it is getting to the point where I'm sure a lot of people want to just scream "take Revitalize and shut up" because it is one of those things which personally does not do very much but on a raid scale it is a very good indeed ("utility"). You could open the whole can of worms about how giving items/upgrades to DPSers/tanks is more important than healers but really that aspect is depressing enough in the background.

People also need to stop thinking of Ulduar terms with Coliseum gear because outside of Twins we don't really have the same type of fights and much more of the damage is based around tanks and short/slight spike damage on the raid.


This is wrong. The way Coliseum itemization has been done leaves little room for deviation of any kind so that the discussion about trading crit/haste/int is somewhat futile - In previous tiers you had a little bit more of an option. It will roughly boil down to if you want the staff or the MH/OH combo but even then the SP from the MH/OH is superior and outclasses the staff regardless.

This is slightly lucky because if people (could, or had the option to) go about balancing all of their gear around the 4T9 set bonus then as soon as we hit 3.3 you would have issues as the set bonus would be phased out and it is doubtful we will get any talent changes before 4.0 or a replica 4T10 bonus to maintain the small boost crit had.


In the end of the day crit is still significantly inferior to SP, you don't really have much choice in your gear to try boost your crit levels outside of helm/shoulder enchants and we are not focusing on Ulduar so RJ is going to account for less of our healing due to both replacing 4T8 (which changes the spell functionality) and encounter design.