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Old 01/20/09, 3:35 PM   #196
Mondas
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Runetotem
I tend to move a lot on Saph. With Blizzards seeming to follow me around and the raid so spread out I generally use LB to raid heal and I run through groups of ppl on purpose and WG myself as I go by. I prefer LB to RJ in this case as inadvertantly healing the same person again while LB is on them will not go to waste and will double their LB ticks. I will use the occasional RG to top up someone who has been missed and I always WG myself when I'm hiding behind the ice block. WG seems to be decent for the melee as they are all bunched up behind the boss and I'll top up LB+RJ+RG on the MT when he's in range. Also, decursing is better than a heal so I try to be on top of that with the mages.

I've also been trying to impose the 6 sec cooldown on myself so that I won't have to adjust for the patch.

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Old 01/21/09, 12:24 AM   #197
KrinKer
Von Kaiser
 
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Worgen Druid
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Mondas View Post
I tend to move a lot on Saph. With Blizzards seeming to follow me around and the raid so spread out I generally use LB to raid heal and I run through groups of ppl on purpose and WG myself as I go by. I prefer LB to RJ in this case as inadvertantly healing the same person again while LB is on them will not go to waste and will double their LB ticks. I will use the occasional RG to top up someone who has been missed and I always WG myself when I'm hiding behind the ice block. WG seems to be decent for the melee as they are all bunched up behind the boss and I'll top up LB+RJ+RG on the MT when he's in range. Also, decursing is better than a heal so I try to be on top of that with the mages.

I've also been trying to impose the 6 sec cooldown on myself so that I won't have to adjust for the patch.
Just go around and throw rejuv at 15 people, it's retard proof and you will own the healing metter

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Old 01/21/09, 5:33 AM   #198
Silkworm
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
As Norfair has stated Naxx is Karazhan level for most guilds. 6 healers is too much as I keep saying to my guild. We did patchwerk with 4 healers only and this week we will try 3. Even I had to spec moonkin for dps and we got a 2'50" kill. We try to make it down to 2.30 this week.
The only 2 combats where I really have to think and fine tune my gear/spec and play style was Sartharion 3 Drake (2 drakes is really easy but 3 drakes is challange to say the least) and Malygos. On Malygos a druid healer is not a must but makes the encounter very easy. Just pop reju all around before he throws you up in the air and spam WG in air.
Also its really challenging to do 10 man Nax with two healers. Up to Sapphiron and Kel-Thuzad its OK but Sapphiron and Kel-Thuzad is hard and I used the innervate Glyph rather that LB for those occasions.
Now with changes 3.08 LB is again useable. Bliz shot LB in the feet and now is trying to save it. The spirit trinket [Majestic Dragon Figurine] is really valuable in 10 Man Sapphiron and Kel-Thuzad where mana is really an issue and helps a lot in 25 man harder combats like Malygos and Sartharion 3 drake. As you are almost always in 5sr the benefits of Majestic Dragon is immense.
Also I have been trying this spec Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft last week and looks like a decent build. The points in Living Seed is pretty moot as almost always when regrowth crits its partially overhealed (especially in 25 mans) and points in replenish are pretty useless. Here is the link to one of the combats that you actually spam Reju Wow Web Stats) and see the results of replenish here Wow Web Stats. As you can see the mana return is really laughable and as healers usually heal themselves and you put reju to dmg taking classes such as locks rogues and mages, the returns are very small for the 3 points spent. So instead I removed my 2 points from tranquilty added them with the said 6 points of Living Seed and Replenish and used them with Healing Touch Talents. Now after a Regrowth crit I can do like 1,5s Healing touch heals with 12k non crit in 5 man. I guess with 25 man buffs non crit Healing touch will be like 14k. I find this to be better suited to my play style. I neglected LB rolling in all Naxx due to Nax being easy on tanks and 6 healers racing with each other to top anyone that takes any damage. Now with changes its back to LB rolling again with glyph talents and the LB idol.
I'm very happy with my druid as a healer and I will be content to complete WoW as resto if it finishes one day. What I notice also is that most people don't like their charactersmuch and keep rolling new classes and never get to be expert at what they do. A good rogue or a good lock is as irreplaceable as a good healer or tank. Try to be that good one.

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Old 01/21/09, 6:43 AM   #199
Rhaegar
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Thrall (EU)
...have been trying this spec Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft last week...
This looks like a nice build to have, especially used as you mentioned it, Silkworm. Might be I'll try that one out myself. After using Living Seed and Replenish for a while, I'm very unsatisfied with it. Although Replenishment works way better for me than the first time I tried it (due to a misreading in the tooltip, which says % of mana... doh! Wasted on Ret/Tank-Pallies...), it is as of now officially underpowered. I seem to be unable to retrack the blue post, but I read it for sure, that they're addressing Replenishment's uselessness now.

For Living Seed, I'm still very unsure of it's use. Yes, it does ~3% of my healing. But it seems at the moment, that we wouldn't really need those 3% anyways. As a sidenote, we're just running Naxx10 so far and haven't done Saph with drakes, but so far we didn't encounter any fights I had to use a pot. Innervate, yes, but what are skills for beside using them?
Anyways, what freaks me out most is the point that I see Living Seed running out without proccing! I guess this is due to very high levels of avoidance, but it just seems useless to me right now, since people will only get more avoidance instead of less. I checked our last night's Naxx WWS and had 287 crits on my Regrowth, which added up to 184 Living Seed proccs. So this means more than 30% of my seeds ticked off unused. I don't like this!

Besides the mechanic of "% of effetive heal" irritates me. Those above mentioned Regrowths added to a average hit of ~7000HP. My average Living Seed proc was around ~1800HP, which is more than 500HP below the estimated values.

Long story short, I understand why you switched those points out and I'm definitely thinking about it myself. Especially because I feel myself lacking of a big "Oh shit button" for Naxx with 2 healers, if Swiftmend AND NS are on cooldown.

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Old 01/21/09, 7:58 AM   #200
Ger
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Stormscale (EU)
Could any1 explain me what is challanging in Naxxramus 10 pple with 2 healers?
We are doing this from very beginning and last problem was - we missed one healer at thursday raid (last day of the WoW week in EU) and respecced our retrodin to holy, he had 1.5k spellpower and 15k mana buffed, and we wiped at Horsemans several times because his mistakes or OOM.
PS
I am healing in 25 pple raids usally and tanking in 10 pple, i've been healing in Naxx 10 pple only 2 times in the beginning of WotLK

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Old 01/21/09, 8:21 AM   #201
airmessy
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kilrogg (EU)
Originally Posted by Ger View Post
Could any1 explain me what is challanging in Naxxramus 10 pple with 2 healers?
We are doing this from very beginning and last problem was - we missed one healer at thursday raid (last day of the WoW week in EU) and respecced our retrodin to holy, he had 1.5k spellpower and 15k mana buffed, and we wiped at Horsemans several times because his mistakes or OOM.
PS
I am healing in 25 pple raids usally and tanking in 10 pple, i've been healing in Naxx 10 pple only 2 times in the beginning of WotLK
Nothing is a challenge in naxx 10 with 2 healers. Only trouble you might have is if kel decides to ice block a healer. Then it can get a little sticky but still quite easy to save the other healer and keep the mt and add tank up *if the adds are spawned yet*

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Old 01/21/09, 10:20 AM   #202
red
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Laughing Skull
Most fights in normal Naxxramas can be healed by 1 person. Sapphiron is especially easy to solo heal as a druid, since damage is very predictable. All fights are very doable with 1 dedicated healer and 1 support (hybrid, etc) who heals when needed and is dps othewise.

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Old 01/21/09, 12:28 PM   #203
• malthrin
stalemate associate
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Norfair View Post
Besides all that I find Naxxramas a bad place to look at healing meters since it's so easy. We did a 2x 20-man achievement the other week and our group had to quit halfway because of the lag. When we tried to continue, we couldn't get the same 20 people in the raid and the other half of the guild was saved, so we ended up doing half of the instance (Abo wing, 4H, Loatheb and Frostwyrm Lair) with 4 healers. I guess you could do the entire instance with 3 healers even since it still wasn't a challenge at all.
Now, if you run with 6 or more healers all you do is fight amongst each other to top player X off first. This is entirely different from healing in the end of TBC, where it actually mattered how many healers you brought and you had to stick to your assignment much more in order to beat the encounter.

In the end, healing meters aren't about who is best. I'd focus more on keeping your assignments alive and not fucking up on stupid things like not walking out of void zones and things like that. That being said, I think you could dish out more healing by keeping up Lifebloom on the tank. It's 1 gcd per 10 seconds but it increases your healing done tremendously.
This is a great post and deserves to be repeated. Healing meters for Naxx 25, unless you're bringing 3-4 healers, demonstrate nothing more than who's paying the most attention. Additionally, "total healing done" on an encounter is mostly an e-peen stat; the useful information is in putting that number into the context of who each healer healed, when they healed them, and using what spells.

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Old 01/21/09, 12:52 PM   #204
Natureseer
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Perenolde
Originally Posted by Rhaegar View Post
This looks like a nice build to have, especially used as you mentioned it, Silkworm. Might be I'll try that one out myself. After using Living Seed and Replenish for a while, I'm very unsatisfied with it. Although Replenishment works way better for me than the first time I tried it (due to a misreading in the tooltip, which says % of mana... doh! Wasted on Ret/Tank-Pallies...), it is as of now officially underpowered. I seem to be unable to retrack the blue post, but I read it for sure, that they're addressing Replenishment's uselessness now.

For Living Seed, I'm still very unsure of it's use. Yes, it does ~3% of my healing. But it seems at the moment, that we wouldn't really need those 3% anyways. As a sidenote, we're just running Naxx10 so far and haven't done Saph with drakes, but so far we didn't encounter any fights I had to use a pot. Innervate, yes, but what are skills for beside using them?
Anyways, what freaks me out most is the point that I see Living Seed running out without proccing! I guess this is due to very high levels of avoidance, but it just seems useless to me right now, since people will only get more avoidance instead of less. I checked our last night's Naxx WWS and had 287 crits on my Regrowth, which added up to 184 Living Seed proccs. So this means more than 30% of my seeds ticked off unused. I don't like this!

Besides the mechanic of "% of effetive heal" irritates me. Those above mentioned Regrowths added to a average hit of ~7000HP. My average Living Seed proc was around ~1800HP, which is more than 500HP below the estimated values.

Long story short, I understand why you switched those points out and I'm definitely thinking about it myself. Especially because I feel myself lacking of a big "Oh shit button" for Naxx with 2 healers, if Swiftmend AND NS are on cooldown.
I have points in both Replenish and Living Seed right now, mostly because I don't really feel like they would go to much use anywhere else.
In regards to Living Seed, it really only helps me in heroics, because there aren't other healers there to undermine it's use. The only real place I've actually seen it proc consistantly with a real purpose is when we were doing 25 man Sarth w/ 3 drakes. I would get a Living Seed up before each breath, as an extra buffer. It's not much, especially if the Regrowth was part overheal, but when a breath is 30k+ you take what you can get. Honestly, I feel like Living Seed is just a bad talent for 3 points (better than replenish, but that's another story.) A while back I was discussing it with another healer in my guild (before WOTLK actually came out, but the argument is the same.) This is the relevant part:

Also, the Living Seed proc comes only from critical heals, which are inherently going to overheal, because when you're deciding what heal to use, you are not basing your decision on what a critical heal will heal for, you are basing it on what a normal heal will heal for. This creates a problem where in virtually every situation the Living Seed is not actually working at full potential, which is basically wasted talent points.

In addition, crit itself is not a stat that resto druids are going to want. Why don't they want it? Because a) less than half of resto druid heals benefit from crit and b) the talents that are supposed to make us "want" crit (living seed + nature's grace) are not good enough to make us want crit. So at this point it's like a circle, where druids don't want crit because we don't have talents that are incentive enough to make us want it, and we don't want the talents that are supposed to make us want it, because they scale off a stat that most druids would pass on for a better stat, like haste. And druids choose haste over crit because of the lack of good talents. (This creates a circle in my mind anyway..)

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Old 01/21/09, 5:44 PM   #205
Aamaretto
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Moonrunner
Originally Posted by Natureseer View Post
In addition, crit itself is not a stat that resto druids are going to want. Why don't they want it? Because a) less than half of resto druid heals benefit from crit and b) the talents that are supposed to make us "want" crit (living seed + nature's grace) are not good enough to make us want crit. So at this point it's like a circle, where druids don't want crit because we don't have talents that are incentive enough to make us want it, and we don't want the talents that are supposed to make us want it, because they scale off a stat that most druids would pass on for a better stat, like haste. And druids choose haste over crit because of the lack of good talents. (This creates a circle in my mind anyway..)
I definitely agree with this. What makes me nervous is the GC quote about haste appearing on lower level gear, found at this thread:

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
Haste and armor pen are things we put on lower level gear to make it lower level gear. Higher level gear will be more suitablly optimized.
What is more suitably optimized? Perhaps this is a discussion for the itemization post, but it has impacts to how we heal as well. Should we start moving towards more direct heals to make use of crit that's going to be on gear? Or was he simply telling us that haste is going to be maxed out at upper level gear so that we don't have to worry about it and we can concentrate on spirit and spell power?

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Old 01/21/09, 6:11 PM   #206
Akomos
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Ravencrest
He's telling everyone that they're aware that Haste and Crit (in our case, other classes have similar issues with Crit or AP or Agility or Spirit or whatever) are suboptimal uses of item budget and it's intentional and that everyone should chill out.

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Old 01/21/09, 7:07 PM   #207
Mondas
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Runetotem
Originally Posted by KrinKer View Post
Just go around and throw rejuv at 15 people, it's retard proof and you will own the healing metter

For one, I already own the healing meter so that is moot. Do I win something?

The change in T7 bonus as well as the reasons I stated lean me to use LB as my standard single target raid healing spell. In addition, for Sapphiron, due to the constant health drain my HoTs almost never get healed over so the LB's almost always bloom.

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Old 01/21/09, 7:11 PM   #208
Mondas
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Runetotem
Originally Posted by Akomos View Post
He's telling everyone that they're aware that Haste and Crit (in our case, other classes have similar issues with Crit or AP or Agility or Spirit or whatever) are suboptimal uses of item budget and it's intentional and that everyone should chill out.

Yes, I read GC's quote to mean that as item budgets increase the lesser stats will not and, therefore, those stats will occupy a smaller proportion of the item's budget.

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Old 01/21/09, 7:38 PM   #209
Nitz
Don Flamenco
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Ysondre (EU)
Even with the modified set bonus Lifebloom still has less HPM, less HPS and less H/GCD than Rejuvenation, especially on Sapphiron.

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Old 01/21/09, 9:27 PM   #210
Playered
Soda Popinski
 
Playered's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Lifebloom as a raid healing tool is so reliant on the final bloom being near fully effective to compete it is somewhat silly to use it. RJ will heal around 2k over 3 seconds while LB will heal 1200 in the same time and the damage taken is generally closer to 1k per sec rather than 500 per sec so the benefit of using smaller ticks gets reduced further.

Considering the cost difference (with Idol and 2T7) is a huge total of 5 mana... well quite honestly the downsides of LB (no SM material, more time needed to babysit due to 8 second shorter duration, reliance on the bloom..) compared to using RJ are just not worth it for a saving of 5 mana.

Today I had something around 70% RJ on Sapphiron but it felt slightly inferior to my normal usage here which is somewhat half that with RG making up a large part of the difference in healing. My healing done didn't really change much nor did other healers edge closer to me on healing than normal but it obviously works... it just might make you feel a little numb.

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