Resto (PvE) Healing Discussion - Page 157

Deku · 12/17/09, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Carnathagia

You may want to retest this. The debuff lasts through death until the encounter is over. If you Rebirth/Soulstone/Reincarnate with the debuff, you will still be marked, and most likely fall over dead before a heal lands and give Saurfang a 2nd nice 5% heal.

I can confirm this indeed is the case. Last week my raid did this without issues but last night we went with 5 healers for the whole night and came a bit unstuck here and when we wiped the marks were still on the old targets, whether this is a bug or a mechanic of the encounter I am unsure, however when they hearthed or relogged the marks dissappeared. We did also test to see if the marks dissappeared upon entering combat, which they did not.

Kirbie44 · 12/17/09, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Deku

I can confirm this indeed is the case. Last week my raid did this without issues but last night we went with 5 healers for the whole night and came a bit unstuck here and when we wiped the marks were still on the old targets, whether this is a bug or a mechanic of the encounter I am unsure, however when they hearthed or relogged the marks dissappeared. We did also test to see if the marks dissappeared upon entering combat, which they did not.

I am sure this is a bug. I believe it should disappear when leaving combat. I think what they are trying to do is keep the mark so you can't use the strategy I posted above. With that, they want to keep the debuff when you release, so that you can't release and then Rebirth. It is working the way they intended, but also more then they intended. I can understand why this is happening though.

thefool808 · 12/17/09, 2:17 PM

Originally Posted by Kirbie44

I am sure this is a bug. I believe it should disappear when leaving combat. I think what they are trying to do is keep the mark so you can't use the strategy I posted above. With that, they want to keep the debuff when you release, so that you can't release and then Rebirth. It is working the way they intended, but also more then they intended. I can understand why this is happening though.

Mark of the fallen will stay on a target through death and will also sometimes stay on a target through a wipe if the target releases before Saurfang despawns. I believe the fact that it stays through a wipe is a bug, but I don't believe it is a bug that it persists through death during the encounter.

The encounter does seem to be more about limiting his ability to use Mark of the Fallen rather than healing through it.

Titanstrider · 12/17/09, 4:49 PM

The bug on the mark was that if a person released after dying then received a brezz the mark would be gone, this is no longer the case with the latest fixes. The groups I run Arboreana with have gotten the less than 3 marks on 10 man achievement and less than 5 marks on 25 achievement. In 25, the first couple marks get no heals and die, because the boss gets more blood points from them. Once he's down to the last couple million we keep the marked person or two alive to avoid the extra 5% heal if they die. We run with 5 healers (2 trees) and tanks are careful to stop attacking on beast spawns to minimize aggro on them, since their melee attacks add to the blood points.

On 10 man we 2 heal it, and the glyph of rapid rejuv has been great in ICC10 so far. We don't let the marked person die on 10, with a disc priest on the tank and a tree on the rest. Rapid rejuv on raid damage and keeping the marked target HoT'd up has worked well. Our first kill on 10 we got 2 marks and that was pretty fast paced keeping everyone up, but if your dps can drop the adds at range it helps keep the fight to 1 mark and HoTs work great there.

I've found rapid rejuv rather handy at freeing up GCDs on fights, where you know the incidental damage isn't a persistent raid aura deal like Twins, so you can fire and forget and they are healed fast enough that the other healer can see it and doesn't worry.

alinna · 12/17/09, 6:00 PM

With a Disc Priest partner (10-man) you can actually use the Priest quite well to mitigate the Blood Power gain and consequently less Mark of the Fallen Champion targets. The priest can keep the ranged shielded with Power Word: Shield and make sure Boiling Blood targets also have PW:S whenever Weakened Soul falls off. Other than that the priest can heal tanks/Mark of the Fallen Champion targets. The druid can do the bulk of the tank healing and any raid damage that was not taken care of by the Priest. I used this strategy this week, and we only got 1 Mark of the Fallen Champion on a kill lasting 5 minutes, and the single Mark was nearly a minute after the 30% frenzy.

MegaVolt · 12/17/09, 6:39 PM

On 10man we down the Saurfangs beasts fast enough so that he usually doesn't get a mark up at all .. or only one which can easily be healed through. I usually place LBx3, Rejuv and Regrowth on the target. That is enough to keep him alive for quite a while so I can occasionally add a Nourish if needed without having to worry too much about spamming it.

On 25man our overall dps is a bit lacking and we are having more problems. It works quite well to just let the first 1-2 marked targets die on purpose. That way we downed him even after getting 7 or 8 marks. If they die earlier (when he isn't enraged yet) the healing doesn't matter much. In the earlier phase he hits like a Naxx boss and is not at all dangerous, prolonging the easy phase by 5% or even 10% is no big deal. It will allow for much easier healing during the hard phase when his soft enrage kicks in.

Imo Regrowth is much more interesting now. In terms of pure HPS with the GotEM change Regrowth is now the hardest hitting spell a Druid has. HPS is about 14% higher then Rejuv but mana efficiency is about 25% lower. I ran ICC and ToC normal mode this week with it and I was surprised about how well it works. A weak but very long lasting HoT to cover the raid and a direct heal to pick up anyone low on health. Due to the direct heal (which for me casts in 1.2 seconds, reasonably fast) I overhealed quite a bit less then with the Rejuv spam strategy. It will burn through my mana very fast so I switched back and forth between Regrowth and Rejuvenation but overall I'm still impressed. Glyphing Innervate and going after more spirit on my gear should fix any mana issues.
When using Regrowth as main spell to blanket the raid it might even be worth it to pick up the R-Rejuv glyph. The long lasting HoT is covered by RG already so a shorter and hard hitting one might be very beneficial.
I'm also not quite sure about the value of the RG glyph for this healing style. Having it boosted by 20% is very nice and when blanketing the raid with RG the glyph should trigger quite often. But then again I could just cast Nourish instead of RG if the target already has the HoT which will result in the same direct heal and costs less mana.

Has anybody tried Regrowth as main healing spell yet?

• Hamlet · 12/17/09, 6:54 PM

Originally Posted by MegaVolt

Imo Regrowth is much more interesting now. In terms of pure HPS with the GotEM change Regrowth is now the hardest hitting spell a Druid has. HPS is about 14% higher then Rejuv but mana efficiency is about 25% lower.

I don't see this in TC--looks like Rejuv is still higher, even with NG.

MegaVolt · 12/17/09, 8:28 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

I don't see this in TC--looks like Rejuv is still higher, even with NG.

Well it depends a lot on how you facor in Living Seed. If you assume a 100% proc rate (basically making LS a crit modifier) then RG comes out clearly on top.
If you assume 0% proc rate (worst case scenario, raid damage will never trigger it) then Rejuv will be slightly superior to RG in pure HPS.
But even then due to the front loaded nature of RG it is a very viable option since the heal is much more controllable than that of Rejuv.

In my runs this week it made for a very interesting change at least. Generally the ICC encounters are quite heavy on single target random damage and don't feature the incremental predictable damage that we Druids loved so very much in ToC. With that change of the dominant damage type I think a front loaded spell like Regrowth might actually be better suited to fit the demands of the ICC encounters. This is pretty hard to confirm though because until hard modes are available it's pretty impossible to really test this assumption (challenging conditions are necessary for that).

• Hamlet · 12/17/09, 9:00 PM

Originally Posted by MegaVolt

Well it depends a lot on how you facor in Living Seed. If you assume a 100% proc rate (basically making LS a crit modifier) then RG comes out clearly on top.
If you assume 0% proc rate (worst case scenario, raid damage will never trigger it) then Rejuv will be slightly superior to RG in pure HPS.

I'd forgotten about LS, but even throwing it back in (otherwise my current gear/talents), I find the two equal for raw HPET, with Rejuv continuing to scale better with spellpower and crit.

Carnathagia · 12/17/09, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by MegaVolt

This is pretty hard to confirm though because until hard modes are available it's pretty impossible to really test this assumption (challenging conditions are necessary for that).

We have 2 Resto Druids, both of us similarly geared and spec'd. I tested this out tonight in ICC25 on the Deathspeaker adds in Lady's room. I spammed Regrowth across the raid, trying to hit the target with the lowest HP deficit to ensure the direct heal wasn't wasted. The other druid spammed rejuvenation across the raid. She came out about 2k hps ahead of me for both adds according to recount.

edit - World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Here is the WoL for the event. Compare Loralise with Emraldè. It's not a perfect test, but it shows how the 2 spells perform comparatively in a real raid healing situation.

Euqsarrat · 12/18/09, 7:12 AM

Hello guys, first post!

I have a couple of doubts that i didn't manage to clarify searching the posts.

The first is about lifebloom, after the nerf on the spell cost i stopped using it, almost completely but reading some posts here i've been asking myself about it, to me the 3 gcd to cast the hot with a possible heal in the end always feel a bad choice in comparisson to our other spells, but i might not be seeing it as i should, maybe roll three stacks on tanks?

The second is about 3.3, i didn't respec for CF, instead i gemmed for haste and took the dust off my abyssal rune to reach the 0/0 CF cap. But to do that i had to downgrade some items for lower ones with haste that cost me 193 spell power. Is that worth it? Or should i go with the CF set which puts me at the 3/3 CF haste cap with 193 more spell power (and other stats)?

Thank you!

Kirbie44 · 12/18/09, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Euqsarrat

The second is about 3.3, i didn't respec for CF, instead i gemmed for haste and took the dust off my abyssal rune to reach the 0/0 CF cap. But to do that i had to downgrade some items for lower ones with haste that cost me 193 spell power. Is that worth it? Or should i go with the CF set which puts me at the 3/3 CF haste cap with 193 more spell power (and other stats)?

Depends on your content/roll tbh. If your Nourish/LS spell make up for less than 10% of your healing (aka 25 man raiding, and you don't use them much at all), then the 3/3 CF + Extra Spell Power is going to reign supreme for Rejuve/Wild Growth power. Your dropping 7 points. 2 of empowered touch, which boosts nourish, and LS, which also boosts nourish. A HoT/Raid healer doesn't pick up NG like you do. You are glyphed and specced for nourish/tank healing is what it looks like, or more like 5 man healing. You don't have WG glyph, so I can only assume this.

If your a nourish heavy player (which it looks like you are), then your current spec is nice. But if your a 25 man raid buffer, like many of us here on the forums, then SP with 3/3 CF is the way to go. Note: If you are a rejuve spamming druids... pick up Revitalize! =P

Demagogue · 12/18/09, 2:08 PM

Originally Posted by Euqsarrat

The second is about 3.3, i didn't respec for CF, instead i gemmed for haste and took the dust off my abyssal rune to reach the 0/0 CF cap. But to do that i had to downgrade some items for lower ones with haste that cost me 193 spell power. Is that worth it? Or should i go with the CF set which puts me at the 3/3 CF haste cap with 193 more spell power (and other stats)?

I guess I can be considered between a Nourish / Tank healer, and a raid buffer from Kaeya's description. Like you I didn't go for CF either and just gemmed my way to the haste cap. However I do agree with him(her) that your roll is crucial into what you end up going with. Right now it looks like the biggest sacrifices you've made are with your 1 Trinket slot, and you gemmed Reckless into one of your red sockets.

I'll be brief since this isn't the itemization thread; the socket I would argue isn't overly critical for a short term swap. But the trinket definitely is considering the ease of access to some of the others Purified Lunar Dust (Badges), Sliver of Pure Ice (Marrowgar 10). If you are raid buffering as Kaeya and many of the others here I would just grab CF. If you are more Nourish/Tank healerish then I would consider breaking your T9 4p bonus and picking up the Mask of Abundant Growth and gemming that for haste as opposed to locking yourself with an inferior trinket for a chunk of time while you try and muster 84 haste rating from somewhere else.

Kirbie44 · 12/18/09, 2:18 PM

Originally Posted by Demagogue

If you are more Nourish/Tank healerish then I would consider breaking your T9 4p bonus and picking up the Mask of Abundant Growth and gemming that for haste as opposed to locking yourself with an inferior trinket for a chunk of time while you try and muster 84 haste rating from somewhere else.

Battle Master trinket is a great alternative to our haste problem. 128 haste, and its use isn't that bad. Neither is the ilvl 213 Wintergrasp Haste PVP trinket. I use the spellpower one on NRB and FC, as it is 1 SP better than my 2nd trinket (Sif's). Restoration Itemization See this post I made about this trinket.

him(her)

Note: Girls don't play wow until proven otherwise.

Lindarz · 12/18/09, 2:59 PM

Originally Posted by Kirbie44

Battle Master trinket is a great alternative to our haste problem. 128 haste, and its use isn't that bad. Neither is the ilvl 213 Wintergrasp Haste PVP trinket. I use the spellpower one on NRB and FC, as it is 1 SP better than my 2nd trinket (Sif's). Restoration Itemization See this post I made about this trinket.

Note: Girls don't play wow until proven otherwise.

< female

But yeah, the battlemaster's is a pretty decent trinket if you need a huge chunk of haste. I had actually picked it up beforehand for my haste-heavy spec for anub.

In raid I'm most definitely a raid healer, and with even just the TOGC25 gear it's very possible to hit haste cap w/ 3/3 CF and keep 4pc. I ended up gemming my 4 yellow slots with +20 haste and keeping 4pc. I was also able to keep my 2 trinkets as my solace/illustration combo. It works for me, since I really usually find no need to cast nourish or regrowth.