Mauhan

I like Norfair's list, with alternatives depending on what stat you're looking for at the moment. A lot of times there simply won't be a best item in a given slot, due to how itemization is now.

For the time being, however, I'm hesitantly leaning towards the Regen side of things in anticipation of 3.1. It remains to be seen how mana regen will end up once the 3.1 test phase is over and Blizzard settles on numbers, but for the moment we only have a glimpse of part of the numbers (i.e. changes to Intensity and such). The other part is the boss fights we'll see in Ulduar. Mana regen + mana demands in Ulduar will paint the whole picture as far how much we'll need to emphasize regen in our gear.

Blizzard says they want judging the use of mana to be a big decision. I don't think I'm expecting a monumental change in things, but I am expecting it to be enough that those regen items on Norfair's list will probably be the ones I want.

Again, what's ultimately "correct" will depend on just how much things will change, but it's something to consider for the time being.

 

Inorrri

To all Nourish users.

I really want to like the ability. It seems decent enough, numbers are pretty right, got 4pT7, everything is good. But, I just can't seem to find a spot in my healing rotations for a Nourish. If I'm on MT heals, I'd rather spam Reg (Glyphed + Talented with NG + Living Seed ), if I'm on raids, I'd rather yet again spam Regrowth just because for a Nourish I'd have to put at least rejuv + wg and preferably even lb and if it's somebody squishy, there's no time rolling hots on him and if it's not, then he can wait the extra 0.5 seconds anyway. And Regrowth gives a ~65-70% chance to be as fast as Nourish on next cast.

So, the question is - why and where should I choose Nourish over Regrowth and is it really worth it to keep 4pT7?

*Note that just spam Regrowth doesn't mean I don't use hots, I'm just comparing the "nuke" heals atm.

 

Fegis

Right now your talking about your rotations and healing situations in Nax and at best 3D saph. These aren't really that difficult and the need to do emergency heals are covered by NS and Swiftmend. I cant remember the last time i did a NS and Swiftmend on the same target. You have to remember Uldar is around the corner and this higher level content will not be easy mode. 4pT7 will come into its own then imo. esp in 10 man

 

Jurik

The one place where I currently use Nourish is responding to Kel'Thuzad's Frost Blast. A single Lifebloom generally won't heal fast enough, and if I recall correctly, Rejuvenation doesn't tick until 3 seconds after landing, so that choice is dicey as well. Upon reflection, a Wild Growth should also suffice if the targets were at full HP, as it will tick several times in the duration of Frost Blast and, by nature of how Frost Blast chains, should hit all afflicted targets with a single cast.

Outside of this, I personally find it difficult to place Nourish in my rotations as well. To me, it feels a lot better suited as a PVP heal for those of us not using the Healing Touch glyph. I also find it very useful for when I am not running a restoration spec, and thus lacking the 50% crit from the Improved Regrowth talent.

Even though I have 4 pieces of T7 gear, I typically don't wear the last 2. I have them fully gemmed and enchanted in my bags just in case the need arises, but as of yet, I've never put them on except to wander around Dalaran a few times.

Nourish is potentially the most mana-efficient heal if the target has all 4 HoTs and we are running 4 pieces of T7 gear for the set bonus. However, in the current environment, mana efficiency is only a minor concern, so often I find myself using Regrowth as well. Furthermore, using Nourish at its peak mana-efficiency takes quite a bit more effort. One needs to maintain all 4 HoTs on the target, which is a lot of GCDs and scheduling. By using a slightly less efficient heal in Regrowth, I can maintain a lot more situational awareness and avoid tunnel vision in healing a single person. I can take the extra moments to anticipate problems and be proactive instead of reactive in healing.

 

Najtrok

When I use Nourish is: All HoTs running, Regrowth Second Run with Glyphed and the tank falls low. And IMO this is what it was designed for, either this or just a quick heal. Today my tank dropped pretty low (5man hc) and I spammed nourish to get him a few HP up so I can RG.
So its perhaps not meant to be a widely used heal but just a heal for a situation we know: The HoTs are just not enough and Regrowth is a waste of HoT Ticks. Just a gap filler nothing more, IMO.

 

trismegistus

I pretty much answered this on the previous page.

Those who choose [Glyph of Innervate] over [Glyph of Regrowth] you will use it for direct heals for targets that:

a) have LB, RJ and RG (possible WG as well)
b) SM is on CD

On paper it seems like it won't be that often, but for certain boss encounters I may use it 6-10 times throughout the fight. I also use it as my go-to heal for Frost Blast on KT.

If you use RG, LB and SM glyphs, you may find little use for Nourish and consequently the 4pc T7 bonus as well.

 

KrinKer

Living Seed: This talent now accounts for your ineffective healing, rather than effective.

Does it mean a third of our crit will become a seed ? IF so, won't it make crit a much more valuable stat that it is now ?

 

Niliyu

The newest changes from mmo champion:

This looks very interesting. Although I'm not quite sure what 2% more stats are supposed to accomplish, seeing as most restos probably already went with improved motw. But I certainly won't complain.

I am worried about the improved regrowth changes though. Of course I appreciate that they try to give Nourish talent synergy, but I'm not happy they used the "nerf regrowth" approach to accomplish this. I'm not very good with numbers, but since both heals essentially fill the same role, doesn't that mean that our direct heal HPS will receive a very serious reduction? Or am I just biased because I don't have 4pT7 and still focus on regrowth, naturally?



Regarding the Living Seed change mentioned in the previous post: Taken literally it sounds to me like only overhealing will be used to determine the seed strength. But I prefer to give them the benefit of doubt and just assume that they meant to say that the seed will be based off the full amount of healing, not just the effective or ineffective part


Edit: I should add that these changes apparently are from data mining and as such not necessarily finalised

 

Norfair

Well if these changes are true, then I know what I will do and that is change to Glyph of Innervate since Innervate got "nerfed" and use Regrowth only for applying the HoT, since I think Nourish will now be better hps/hpm than Regrowth will be. Will have to do the math to be sure though.

And since Regrowth got a big hit we will crit much less, making Living Seed an even crappier talent, so I guess this is the way they want to compensate it. It still won't make me gear for crit though.

Edit: I think the changes to the MotW talent are there to make it at least a bit more attractive for ferals than it is now.

Keep f**king that chicken.

 

• Playered

I'm glad they finally lowered Improved Regrowth down to 25% because previously it was too stupidly strong and doing so enabled them to make Living Seed work on total healing not effective (which now looks like a reasonable talent combined with the +25% Nourish crit).
I kind of wish they incorporated Nourish into one of the Healing Touch talents to make them more attractive but the method they used is easier and doesn't require us needing to make choices as we took the talent regardless.

They have not touched Omen of Clarity yet and the Priest version got changed to increase regeneration by 50% when you crit with certain spells which seems a better method but we will have to see if it ends up getting changed for us at all considering it is used in 3 differing specs.

I'm dreading that Revitalize only got the inclusion of Wild Growth and while we do not have numbers yet if that is all they have done then I assume it has a fairly similar chance to RJ and it just promotes throwing the spell on cooldown rather than need - a silly change.

The kicker is that nothing changed to give us a means to avoid being Haste capped early beyond shedding points in GoTEM and nothing changed to give us any additional means of crit scaling on our HoTs.
Ferals and Warlocks got DoT crits on a 1 point talent and Holy Priests got a 15% instant heal on the cast of Renew which I assume can crit, not that I would want all our HoTs to crit but just some scaling with it is sorely needed.


We have an acceptable 'start' to 3.1 and I longingly look forward to more changes over the course of the the PTR because right now I'm really envious over Priests getting some pretty numerous solid changes.

 

Arentios

For all of the minor tweaks the changes do not modify the point distribution of specs much. Assuming we are still itemized for haste/crit in Ulduar it means that instead of a 14/0/53 (+4) spec we'll probably end more of a 14/0/56 (+1) with Celestial Focus being an even poorer option and Living Seed/Revitalize being stronger. The changes are a bit yawn inducing from a resto perspective in terms of actually changing how we function, other than Nourish becoming much more viable (at the expense of Regrowth).

Two glaring wholes left that they might change during PTR testing are Tranquil Spirit (sucking since 2.0) and Gift of the Earthmother (one of only a handful of talents with negative scaling with realistic gear). There's also nothing in these notes that makes spirit competitive versus int.

We still need to see numbers on Revitalize and exact details on the Living Seed changes (just overheal? Overheal now included with effective making it total?) but no matter what I don't see them changing specs simply because there aren't really many other options for the points.

 

Niliyu

Yes, I completely forgot that there are other specs that might be interested *blush*

 

novasphere

pastebin - collaborative debugging tool

Current datamined list of possible new Glyphs. Resto ones are:

• Glyph of Nourish: Your Nourish heals an additional 6% for each of your heal over time effects present on the target.
  
• Glyph of Wild Growth: Wild Growth now affects up to 6 targets.
  
• Glyph of Tree of Life: Reduces the mana cost of your Tree of Life Form by [unknown]% (possibly minor glyph).
  
• Related, but not necessarily relevant: Glyph of Barkskin: Reduces the chance you'll be critically hit by melee attacks by [unknown]% while Barkskin is active.

 

Celeras

You forgot:

Glyph of Rejuvenation -- Heals a friendly target for 50% of Rejuvenation. (Old: While your Rejuvenation targets are below 50% health, you will heal them for an additional 50% health.)

Though I'm not really sure what it means.

 

m4niac

I was asking the same thing. What does it actually mean?

Is the target healed istantly when you put a Rejuvenation or the HoT gains a 50% benefit?

I think it's the second one...the description is similar to the old one, without the fact that the targets must be below 50% health to activate it.

 

Arentios

Either interpretation is brokenly powerful. Given that there are quite a few other problems with listed glyphs (glyphs for abilities that were removed, or glyphs that affect drastically changed abilities and whose effects do not work with the new ability) I imagine we'll see glyphs changing a lot over the course of the PTR.

 

Dioneirra

This is just the effect of the rejuvenation glyph, i.e. this is the way the additional 50% tick (while below 50% health) is created. The gylph itself is unchanged, you just mixed up a triggered effect with a glyph itself.

And because maybe not everyone looks over in the 3.1 changes thread, this change may also be relevant for resto druids:

Glyph of Rebirth
Players resurrected by Rebirth are returned to life with 100% health.

 

• Playered

On the PTR there is no change to the Rejuvenation glyph unless there is a new one too. Unable to check if the effect has changed (while the tooltip hasn't) yet until some scribes log on and put some up for 2000 gold each.

 

Cube

That's the problem I have with the spell, especially because Wild Growth is expensive, and may or may not be applied to your tank target depending on the raid damage situation. I'm not sure if the savings really justify keeping WG up, especially in a mana-constrained environment.

However, with the imp Regrowth change, I think it'll be a much better filler/"oh shit" button in general, especially while NS and SM are down.

 

Akomos

Nourish is going to be amazing now. If that glyph goes through as-is, I'll be critting Nourishes at like a 40% clip for around 10k + a 3k Living Seed (on tanks). For bugger all mana and a 1.2s cast (i think? Hell if I've looked at my cast times recently).

 

Raised

I imagine the new order for tank healing will be:

LBx3/RJ > Regrowth for the first 'dip' the tank takes > Nourish for subsequent 'dips.'

I don't think it's optimal to waste all the mana of a WG when it's not needed, just for an extra 6 seconds of 'maximized' Nourish, although if you really need to exchange throughput for efficiency, it's there.

It looks like they are redesigning the RJ glyph, so RJ for initial damage, which then allows a greatly-improved Nourish might be the new go-to for single-target RSTS raid damage, with WG there for AoE raid damage.

The nerf to RG is being more than made up with the Nourish talent/glyph support in my eyes, and RG still retains a valuable role as being SM-able and being the first direct heal you'll want to cast on any tank for the extra HoT and Nourish boost.

 

bandophahita

I read that on Wow Insider, but didn't see it on MMO champion.

A) Is this a mistake on behalf of WoW Insider. I generally trust MMO Champ.

B) What does that mean?
Ineffective healing vs effective healing? If you overheal, it still applies the full amount from the crit towards the seed? (a full 30%)
Average crit size (completely rounding for simplicity)
6000 / 3 = 1800 seed.

This sounds like a decent amount to me, even given the goofy way living seed works. If it's true of course.

 

Raised

My guess is that it would be the full value (effective + ineffective) to actually make living seed worth 3 points. It's getting an inherrant nerf since you'll no longer get it on 80%+ of Regrowths, so it needs a pretty decent bump to make it worth it.

 

Inorrri

I assume there are typos in there.

Living Seed: This talent now accounts for your ineffective healing as well, rather than just effective. < Seems more logical, no?

 

Norfair

I just tested on PTR. I healed myself for 4k with 1.7k overheal Nourish. Next, Living Seed healed me for 1.7k after I got hit by a fire in IF. Meaning Living Seed always heals for 30% of the heal; it doesn't matter how much you overhealed.

Next, I made a Glyph of Rejuvenation and put it on my glyph page. After getting naked and putting my gear back on, I cast Rejuv on myself. It ticks several times but no Glyph heals (all ticks were above 50% though), so it's still working as it does on live.
Also I tried to research a new glyph with Northrend research but I discovered none, so I'm guessing all the new glyph changes are still yet to be implemented.

Keep f**king that chicken.