Resto (PvE) Healing Discussion - Page 162

ttyl · 01/06/10, 2:15 AM

Putricide: Malleable Goo affects Rejuv if you have the Rapid Glyph on, but does not if you aren't using it. However, it's a slow missle that you can move out of to completely avoid (like Shadow Crash damage). Just a heads up.

Also, Plagueworks trash respawns after 2 hours :(

Kirbie44 · 01/06/10, 11:50 AM

We faced 3 bosses last night, 2 new and 1 old in the plague wing. Festergut and Rotface were fairly easy. The Lag boss was killer. New content, populated server, should have expected. Rotface was fairly easy to do with lag. Healing wise... I didn't do much as there was little damage going out. The OT tanking adds sometimes got caught in ooze, but our priests are quick on their CD's to wings/PS him. Pretty simple tank and spank, which was expected.

Festergut posed our biggest problem. I took this fight with a simple 5x1 healing style. There were 2 ranged groups, and the healers. I 5 x rejuvenated the ranged, and WG the melee. It worked really well, as you can still HoT on the run to/from spores. a WG on your ranged group after the spore is a good idea, but the damage was laughable. If you have 2 stacks, you CAN survive, but 3 is recommended. Barkskin during the explosion thing he does is nice, along with shadow aura mastery. It is a DPS race, and after the 2nd explosion, you don't have to worry about getting spores. The tanks get trucked hard after the first spore, so PS/Wings/cool downs are recommended.

We pulled Putricide once, but quickly found out that lag would get the best of us. Seemed easy to heal so far, after 3 minutes of engagement. We also pulled to Putricide but didn't attempt him in 10m. We were tired, and already being dumb on the previous bosses. 3AM raiding is FTL.

I didn't feel a difficulty increase in this wing compared to the first 4 bosses. Without lag, 1 wipe to each boss seems fair.

Carnathagia · 01/06/10, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Kirbie44

Festergut posed our biggest problem. I took this fight with a simple 5x1 healing style.

The thing I liked about healing Festergut was the different healing style necessary for the different damage phases. I 2-healed 10-man with a Disc Priest. At the start of the fight, a 5x1 approach was perfect for the heavy raid damage. After the first inhale, I switched to 10 Rejuvs and a Regrowth on the tank rotation since the raid damage dies down and tank damage picks up. After the 2nd inhale, Wild Growth on our melee/healer stack + Prayer of Mending bouncing out to the ranged was enough for the raid, while I kept Rejuv, Regrowth, Lifebloom, and Nourish spam on the tank. Before the eruption comes, have the tank use some cooldowns and begin to re-hot the raid in preparation to return to 5x1.

Demagogue · 01/07/10, 10:07 AM

I'm curious if anyone else had an issue with Healing Aggro on the big slimes in their groups. As a Tree I was okay for the most part, but our Holydin was just constantly pulling the big slime off our OT. We had some failing with slime management which probably didn't help but the threat just seemed out of place. It was like Saurfang/Anub all over again.

I missed Festergut on our 25man kill but 10s really did seem to be a joke somewhat with the extra space to move around in. Kaeya, you mentioned two ranged groups for your 25s I take it you're splitting your healers up equally between that as well. Do you find you have enough range to get to the group on the far side of Festergut? Or were you guys doing more of a SE/SW type split as opposed to a N/S type.

♦ Carebare · 01/07/10, 10:15 AM

Ranged DPS is a far better kiter than an OT due to far better threat - hunter, aff lock, spriest - someone who can keep on the move. Otherwise your healers will out aggro it. There is no reason to 2 tank the fight since you do not want anyone to be "off-tanking" the big slimes anyhow.

• Hamlet · 01/07/10, 10:25 AM

On that note, I don't see why so many people leave off the 3rd point in Subtlety. What's so important about Tranquil Spirit? Subtlety doesn't come up that often, but there's no serious talent competing for those points, so you should just have it for when it turns out to matter. I feel like Anub should have made this pretty clear.

♦ Carebare · 01/07/10, 10:31 AM

I didn't always spec it (or fully spec it) for Anub because Scorned would flip his vigilance from manly (who has it during AOE) to me on the run in. A lot of times not having subtlety (or having less subtlety than any other tree present) is just as good as having it if you are using lack of it to your advantage. The most conventional example was Algalon, but the principle applies anywhere you'd like to take advantage of it.

• Hamlet · 01/07/10, 11:06 AM

There are definitely times when you don't want it. Algalon is a good one (although lots of people didn't handle Constellations that way), and trying to maximize Vigilance is maybe another (though I'm skeptical--I'd probably rather just have the reduced chance of being gibbed). But for general use, there's no particular reason not to have it. And I was mostly responding to prior poster, who only has 2/3 Subtlety and is complaining about getting threat.

Kirbie44 · 01/07/10, 11:19 AM

I used to avoid subtlety as well. Since 3D Sarth, I found it a godsend. I didn't spec out of it for algalon, but my guild didn't have a problem with Algalon (we formed it just a few weeks before 3.2) as we out geared the encounter when we got there.

If you are a vigilance bot, then I can also see not taking it. 2% reduced mana on Nourish seems lackluster for a resto druid. Aggro issues are a big deal on any fight with adds. Big oozes, Yogg adds, Anub'Arak, Blood Beasts, Gunship, Deathwhisper, etc.

Fallenangel · 01/07/10, 11:24 AM

Wouldn't a paladin with RF make a much better vigilance target? They also have a reason to put it up (6% less damage taken).

♦ Carebare · 01/07/10, 12:38 PM

Progress for Anub happened a pretty long time ago and there wasn't this firm grasp how it was going to be done. Many guilds did rj rolling including Premo, so having a resto druid with more threat than a RF pally was not unreasonable at the time.

Edit to add: If the raid damage is significant enough on any encounter depending who is doing what a Resto druid can reasonably outthreat a paladin with RF especially if said paladin needs to move at all.

A lot of this comes down to the continued theme than can be a tad hrm arrogant on these forums. Different guilds do things different ways. With regard to healing there is a lot more wiggle room to the "right" way than with DPS. Everytime someone comes in here posting something that obviously worked and they didn't do the same way as yourself (not directed to the post just above mine) please consider the source, their progress, and don't be so quick to lynch them off the forums.

There is some black and white to healing, but not nearly as much as it's often painted out to be.

♦ Carebare · 01/07/10, 2:39 PM

Just a few other points to add in response to specific stuff:
@Hamlet re 2/3: In some cases that 10% might matter, but I think the major point of his pulling aggro on Rotface specifically given the mechanics is that an OT cannot continually dump threat where as a ranged DPS kiter can. Additionally that OT specced as DPS + ranged kiter is by far better raid dps than wasting someone purely to kite. Can it be done both ways? I'm sure it can, but I just don't see how 10% threat reduction will fix his problem. We had multiple healers pulling in 25man, which is why we went the way did -- it worked for us and could work for his guild too if they were so inclined to try.

@Fallenangel re Vig: Strictly speaking my threat on Anub will always be consistently high even with full subtlety because of how we do it (passive healing on 4 out of 5 groups with RJ roll on 1 group + PC + tank). A paladin may not land a significant amount of healing for whatever reason on the run in, compared to the known and stable threat a resto druid can supply. Again, this works for us, it may work differently for other people to say one is better than the other is moot -- both work.

Mahalo · 01/07/10, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by Kirbie44

We faced 3 bosses last night, 2 new and 1 old in the plague wing. Festergut and Rotface were fairly easy. The Lag boss was killer. New content, populated server, should have expected. Rotface was fairly easy to do with lag. Healing wise... I didn't do much as there was little damage going out. The OT tanking adds sometimes got caught in ooze, but our priests are quick on their CD's to wings/PS him. Pretty simple tank and spank, which was expected.

Festergut posed our biggest problem. I took this fight with a simple 5x1 healing style. There were 2 ranged groups, and the healers. I 5 x rejuvenated the ranged, and WG the melee. It worked really well, as you can still HoT on the run to/from spores. a WG on your ranged group after the spore is a good idea, but the damage was laughable. If you have 2 stacks, you CAN survive, but 3 is recommended. Barkskin during the explosion thing he does is nice, along with shadow aura mastery. It is a DPS race, and after the 2nd explosion, you don't have to worry about getting spores. The tanks get trucked hard after the first spore, so PS/Wings/cool downs are recommended.

We pulled Putricide once, but quickly found out that lag would get the best of us. Seemed easy to heal so far, after 3 minutes of engagement. We also pulled to Putricide but didn't attempt him in 10m. We were tired, and already being dumb on the previous bosses. 3AM raiding is FTL.

I didn't feel a difficulty increase in this wing compared to the first 4 bosses. Without lag, 1 wipe to each boss seems fair.

Setup - holy paladin (tanks), disc priest (ranged - bubblespam), two resto sham (melee / tanks), tree (me - ranged)

We cleared to and killed Fester after 5 or so attempts. I wound up rolling rejuvs on two ranged groups, as you did, and dropped my WG on the healer group which is stacked with tanks / melee right on top of him for easy spore collection. The fight was fun as hell but I found myself with the best results after I re-glyphed for rapid rejuv / rejuv 50% and wild growth. For the next time I might just keep swiftmend in favor of wild growth because since we were mostly stacked my WGs were usually overwritten by brain heal, holy nova and PoH. That said I didn't mend much since I was too busy rolling rejuvs whenever spores were out. Anyone else glyph-swap for this?

What a great fight - definitely some of the most fun I've had healing in a while.

Fallenangel · 01/07/10, 4:35 PM

Originally Posted by Carebare

@Fallenangel re Vig: Strictly speaking my threat on Anub will always be consistently high even with full subtlety because of how we do it (passive healing on 4 out of 5 groups with RJ roll on 1 group + PC + tank). A paladin may not land a significant amount of healing for whatever reason on the run in, compared to the known and stable threat a resto druid can supply. Again, this works for us, it may work differently for other people to say one is better than the other is moot -- both work.

It was a general statement, not about Anub specifically. And yes in that particular case it can vary quite greatly - if a druid is only PC healing then the opposite will happen, can happen that you don't generate aggro for a long time. Personally I don't see why you'd roll rejuvs for leech healing but, whatever works.

Kirbie44 · 01/08/10, 12:24 PM

Professor Putricide definitely seems kill-able (obviously). My guild has been on farm content for so long, that only a few of us researched the fight, figuring it would be a pushover. Glad to see it is a tough fight. The only healing suggestion I have is to hit WG while targeting the (green I think) slime before he blows up his group. Pretty easy fight for us resto druids. A LOT of movement, look around, don't stand in stuff. P3 the tanks do get trucked pretty hard, rolling LB's along with Regrowth and Rejuve on the tank is recommended. I did spec out of CF and the extra balance talents going 11/0/60 as my extra raid spread was not needed, but more powerful single targets, like LS and ET. This wasn't just for the tanks, but for the Red Ooze kiting or any ignorant raider who got hit by vials or bouncies. A really fun fight. I did use lifebloom quite a bit, and might pick up that glyph for this fight if I don't find something different.