Sorry Hamlet, I guess my post wasn't as clear as I thought, I wasn't having issues with my threat, just the holydin was. I used to run with 3/3 Subtlety as well (I thought I still was to be honest) I had dropped it down a point a while back simple as a test, and really didn't have healing issues with it, even on the newer content such as Saurfang and such. So it apperently remained at 2/3. Then again, I'm not so much of a 5x1 Tree either, so I tend to not have the worry of pulling intial aggro on adds when they spawn.

Carebare hit the nail on the head for me, I was actually speaking with our MT yesterday as well, and yeah a big portion of his problem was simply generating enough threat. That was our fault for having a warrior do it through, We have a boomkin & hunter with stam sets (They absorbs orbs on Twins) who would probably have been a much better choice for the roll. As a standard it looks like we'll be having our pally OT do it now, as well he doesn't have a decent dps set, and when doing it in 10s the ability to remove the slowing debuff off themself was a god sent, I imagine it would be the same in 25s, but I'll definitely keep the ranged DPS in mind too.


On Kaeya's note regarding Putricide, I ironically did the exact opposite to the point that I am contemplating re-gemming/speccing to get the addition SP and CF to meet haste cap. This was probably the first fight that I've really done the whole 5x1 casting almost exclusively I just found it a very useful way to keep the raid covered (we have two trees) I think it might be beneficial when it comes to things like the Mallable Ooze as well, personally I would rather myself and the other Tree with our 3 hunters be the only people at ranged, so that the ooze only fly towards us, we can dodge them with very little loss to healing/dps. I think it would help a lot with allowing the other healers focus on the tanks in p3 as yes they do definitely take a beating in that phase.

I'm curious if you're using Regrowth enough to warrant the points in Nature's Grace still. I've recently gotten enough upgrades to allow for gemming to make up the rest of my haste while maintaining 4pc T9, but have chosen to go with 11/0/60 build instead of 14/0/57. I could easily drop 3 points from the resto tree (2 from imp barkskin and 1 from Living Spirit would probably be my choice), but I just don't find it that useful since Regrowth base cast time is 1.4 seconds when you're haste capped, and the frequency at which I use it isn't high enough to warrant Nature's Grace.

I guess what it comes down to is even a small/infrequent benefit is more valuable to me than 1 more point is LS and IBS. I will be sure to pay close attention to it, and if it seems worthless overall I'll dump it. This isn't a spec I'm using for anything other than being able to lob some enormous tank heals in p3 Putri-25. I have no plans to otherwise break my 4t9/regem to haste up just yet and make a permanent switch. I hope to at some point though.

Did anyone test, theorized or is there a way to use tools like Simcraft (never did, so only guessing about what it does) to see:

1) for a 5x1 rotation - how many casts can someone actually do at haste cap compared to someone 200 haste points behind, BUT taking into consideration latency? (blanketing the raid and having Grid, I can definitely see a small delay before applying a hot and grid status hots acknowledging it, so I try, probably like all of you, to get into a rhythm, but how precise is that rhytm?)

2) 0.9s NG-ed Nourishes one-target spam vs 1.1s (with no NG points) chained Nourishes - are you sure you get more casts in the first situation?

I wasn't very clear, I'm sorry: I was curious if, taking into consideration human reaction time and variable game latency, there is a significant difference between blanketing 5x1 with 1 sec GCD vs 1.05 GCD or if it falls inside the standard deviation of a mathematical model.

From what I know, chaining 1.1s by starting to cast the next spell in the "red" portion of a castbar addon like Quartz/ACB, will have you casting them nonstop, a number of time(s)/1.1; what I don't know is how many instants or below-GCD casts you can have (with a capped 1s GCD), taking into consideration client-server communication/latency.

There is also extra healing attached due to glyph of rapid rejuvenation. Won't comment on the mathematical stuff since i'm not that good at it.

Blizzard has been making tweaks on this way back at wotlk launch. The "red" portion gets automatically handled by the client, in theory eliminating the latency on chained casts. Back in BC you had to make /stopcasting macros to stop the client animation, if timing this in the "red" portion of the cast bar, the server would still fire the canceled spell. But that's old mechanics.
The benefit on a 0.9s cast on a 1 s gcd is in the human reaction time. The 0.9s cast will "swallow" a lower reaction time and integrate it in the 1s gcd. The 1.1s cast will take 1.1s+human reaction time (this "cast under 1 second" occurs for instance when you are haste capped and are specced into Nature's Grace).

This is not valid in the same way on instant casts. Here you will not go down under the CGD the same way as described above with the 0.9 s casts.
In this case the benefit on instant casts from reaching the 1s gcd is minimizing the reaction time for one(as in 1s+reaction time vs 1.1s+reaction time), and increasing healing throughput with glyph of rapid rejuvenation.

I would say having a warrior do it was almost definitely the problem there. Healing in that fight is not that strenuous and the pickup of the big ooze is not that time sensitive. You just need a tank that can generate a halfway decent amount of threat at range like... really anything but a warrior.


I haven't actually run into any trouble yet pulling aggro off a tank who has hit something without maxing subtlety, I don't exactly see how you would. I might pull the adds on anub, but only off another healer. Only a paladin is particularly more suited to take a hit, and if I know it's coming and have barkskin up I'm pretty sure that'll make me the best candidate to take a swing anyway. In most other situations I want the aggro if it's on a non-tank. I think I'm as well suited as anyone to take a hit if it needs to be taken or avoid it if that's possible. If I was consistently raiding with a pally whose awareness I trusted that might be different, but maybe not, I can still move at about any time for a short kite to buy the tank a couple seconds without costing any healing.