The positive side of Replenish is that even though it doesn't tick for much very often (which is why I believe GC referred to it as a lackluster talent), it does tick on overheals. The times when I use RJ a lot are intensive fights like Saph and the vortex (as was mentioned), and those are times I want to squeeze every bit of mana out of every possible place. That's why I like Replenish. I do hope they improve it, of course, but I don't think it's as completely worthless as I first thought when I was under the impression it only ticked on actual heals.

My only problem with rejuv is that it is slow to apply healing. It depends on the situation but when there are several people taking damage and you need to get their health up quickly waiting three seconds between rejuv ticks isn't always the best option.

Of course it depends on your raid make up. Our guild was hit hard by the WG/CoH nerf because we only have one semi-active resto shaman. If I'm on raid healing along with a priest or another druid when there is bursty raid damage (3 drake sarth or maly), I find that relying on rejuv too much leaves the raid vulnerable to death or that my swiftmend cooldown isn't up right when I need it. I usually go with regrowth and then mix rejuv in when there is no burst to heal. Wtb resto shaman /sigh.

We haven't done 3-drake Sarth yet so I can't comment, but on Maly, the multiple-person damage is spikey but predictable (unlike Saph which is slow and steady). Yes, if someone gets hit twice in a row by the scions outside the bubble, that hurts, but on the vortex, the arcane breath, and his deep breath, everyone takes a whole bunch of damage ... and then it stops. Just because everyone took 10k damage in 1s doesn't mean it needs to be healed up to full in 1s. Let your hots tick. Have the priest cast COH and then do something else and then cast it again.

And if someone gets hit by the scions with rejuv up, that's what swiftmend is for. My swiftmend CD usually isn't down unless I'm playing race-the-other-healers for shits and giggles, or if a bunch of people are doing something dumb they're not supposed to.

My two cents anyway. I find that a lot of people don't trust hots, and this just sounds like a case of that to me.

I totally agree about rejuv on P1 in Malygos, the vortex damage is predictable so rejuv works great and the other damage in P1 doesn't require players to be topped up immediately.

When it comes to P2 without anyone hitting the raid regularly with bursty heals I really don't trust HoTs. I've tried rejuv but we just lost dps all over the place, I found regrowth gave the benefit of a big top up and a long lasting HoT that can be swiftmended as needed. I'm certain it comes down to healing make up. We rarely have a shaman and now I think about it since the patch we've only had one priest raid who has been discipline.

No guild would raid with 2 pallies/3 druids and one disc priest as a heal team if they had other options. Our druids are filling the gaps of other classes who respecced/rerolled DPS so we are probably picking spells for different reasons than most. My point was more or less that druid raid healing spell choices can't be boxed into rejuv always being the best option.

I don't particularly like rejuv for raid healing because other healers will heal over your hot. It's not a matter of being unaware, leaving someone at 50% hp just because a rejuv will get him to full 18 seconds later isn't a good choice. No, this isn't some I-need-to-top-the-meters thing, if I cast a rejuv on someone and then another healer tops him up, I wasted my time and mana on that rejuv.
Rejuv is very strong in some situations, it's a great way to counter periodic damage or to set up a SM in case you suspect you'll need it. It's also a hot you want up on your tanks 100% of the time. But if someone is already at 70% or lower, it's just too slow. For that purpose, regrowth and nourish are better.
WWS is our naxx clear WG-nerf, rejuv is actually the top healing spell by a small margin, although I suspect it's a combination of several fights (sapphiron, loatheb) that strongly favor it along with under-utilization of WG due to adjusting to the cooldown.
And if you use rejuv to heal frost blast...I'm not sure what to say. Don't.

I think it has great options. While I agree it should not be used as raiding healing ('cept particular fights) it does have it's benefits for some raid healing, such as ret pallys. I always keep a rejuv on every tank, every lock, and every ret pallys. There's a balance to just about everything it seems.

I definitely agree that RJ isn't always the best option, but it is a very good option. The nature of hots in general means they're going to be healed over very quickly.

I just don't find that having a shaman in the raid is a necessity, but maybe I'm a little bit laid back about things. If one of the dps dies, it's usually because they stood in the blizzard or whatever the incoming damage was. When people die, it's not usually because of our raid makeup, it's because someone was screwing around, doing something they shouldn't. So does a shaman pick up the slack when the dps drops it better than any other healing class? Maybe. But for predictable fights that everyone knows, it is my opinion that just about any makeup (with a fairly good mix of healers) should be able to do it.

I would be interested in arguments to the contrary; as I said, I'm more laid back about things. I do my absolute best to keep everyone alive, but if they die, 99% of the time, it's because they dropped the ball, not the healers. And I'm not going to beat myself up because someone couldn't dance on Heigen. But I will pat myself on the back for a well-timed RJ+swiftmend when they don't move fast enough.

I agree here, great post by the way.

I think the thing to note here is that as much as we want to post on the topic, there are simply TOO many variables that effect this.

Take for example a 25 man with 3 druid healers (yes, I know). Now, each of us are specced / glyphed differently. One of us heavy HT build, one rejuv/regrowth (me), and the other a hybrid. Now, I can't speak for the other two but the three of us combined are quite the weapon. I am not on top of their casts, and we are getting good enough (sorry if that sounds cocky- not my intention) to know on each fight who is casting what....when. I do find myself usually doing this (changes per fight however)

rejuv on the tank group, then hit the MT with regrowth, (if aoe dmg is going on, WG), and I keep a rejuv/regrowth up on the tank group, spot healing the raid with regrowth and WG.

The other druids are doing other spells and YES in times healing over the top of me - which I think is unavoidable in any case.

The point is however that if any of the tanks take a dmg spike - swiftmend is there and a HT macro if needed.

This is fun stuff, but I will admit my lack of complete understanding as I learn the specifics. If you guys have any tips on my gear/build/cast sequence I'd love to learn even more.

In regards to raid healing, I do think RJ is very effective used in the following manner. With RJ having a 1 sec GCD, the RJ->SM combo is our quickest hitting heal. Yes it is 2 key-clicks, and no this content doesn't demand cutting edge play, but you should be forming good habits for Ulduar. SM's 15-sec CD should be used proactively (as in, when it's up, look for the next chance to use it, instead of only as an oh-sh!t button).

I.e., on Maly arcane breath, try WG / RJ->SM / RG&Nourish weaving and you should top meters. Imho, this rotation is good for any raid damage. Healers aren't excluded from having rotations. It just occurred to me that I use this same rotation for OS+3.

Thank you Red. You have brought to light a pretty significant difference of Uliko’s formula since patch 3.0.8. Although the GotEM reduction did occur at the end of the formula at a fixed .3, .24, .18, .12, .06 sec off the final cast, it is now just a 20%/16%/12%/8%/4% reduction.

Uliko’s formula for your example of 336 haste with 5/5 GotEM and 3/3 CF on Rejuv as previously interpretted:
336/32.79=10.247026
(1.5GCD/(~1.1024703*1.03)) - .3 = 1.0209523 Revuj Cast Time (Your script shows that the result of this is 1.056)

The following is the same but subtracting 20% from the new cast time rather then -.3 sec or 30%Haste as an equivalance to 20% base reduction (5/5 GotEM):

1.5/(~1.1024703*1.03) = 1.3209523 (Before GotEM)

1.3209523 * 20% = .2641904 reduction
1.3209523 - .2641904 = 1.0567619  Bingo!

I’ve ran the same formula for each of your GCD posts regarding GotEM both with 1,2, and 3 CF and they all match 100%. It appears as though your script OR WoW always rounds down to the nearest thousandth.

So this brings to light some corrections to the current Soft Cap Spreadsheet floating between this thread and the Restoration Itemization Thread.

In order to maintain a 1sec GCD on Rejuv, LB, and WG:

Wrath of Air and Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura (with 3/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~34.7% Haste = ~1137 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~27.0% Haste = ~887 Haste Rating ~29.45% =~959 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~20.2% Haste = ~664 Haste Rating ~23.85% =~782 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~14.1% Haste = ~463 Haste Rating ~18.48% =~606 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~8.6% Haste = ~282 Haste Rating ~13.11% =~430 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~3.6% Haste = ~118 Haste Rating ~7.72% =~253 Haste Rating

Wrath of Air only (with 3/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~38.7% Haste = ~1269 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~30.8% Haste = ~1012 Haste Rating ~33.12% =~1086 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~23.8% Haste = ~782 Haste Rating ~27.60% =~905 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~17.5% Haste = ~576 Haste Rating ~22.05% =~723 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~11.9% Haste = ~389 Haste Rating ~16.50% =~541 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~6.7% Haste = ~220 Haste Rating ~10.95% =~359 Haste Rating

Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura only (with 3/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~41.4% Haste = ~1358 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~33.4% Haste = ~1095 Haste Rating ~35.71% =~1171 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~26.2% Haste = ~861 Haste Rating ~30.04% =~985 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~19.8% Haste = ~650 Haste Rating ~24.40% =~800 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~14.0% Haste = ~460 Haste Rating ~18.76% =~615 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~8.8% Haste = ~288 Haste Rating ~13.11% =~430 Haste Rating

No outside buffs at all (only 3/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~45.6% Haste = ~1497 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~37.4% Haste = ~1226 Haste Rating ~39.80% =~1305 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~30.0% Haste = ~985 Haste Rating ~33.97% =~1114 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~23,4% Haste = ~768 Haste Rating ~28.15% =~923 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~17.4% Haste = ~573 Haste Rating ~22.32% =~732 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~12.0% Haste = ~395 Haste Rating ~16.50% =~541 Haste Rating

Wrath of Air and Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura
0/5 GotE = ~38.7% Haste = ~1269 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~30.8% Haste = ~1012 Haste Rating ~33.12% =~1086 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~23.8% Haste = ~782 Haste Rating ~27.60% =~905 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~17.5% Haste = ~576 Haste Rating ~22.05% =~723 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~11.9% Haste = ~389 Haste Rating ~16.50% =~541 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~6.7% Haste = ~220 Haste Rating ~10.95% =~359 Haste Rating

Wrath of Air only
0/5 GotE = ~42.9% Haste = ~1407 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~34.7% Haste = ~1138 Haste Rating ~37.12% =~1217 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~27.5% Haste = ~902 Haste Rating ~31.41% =~1030 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~21.1% Haste = ~692 Haste Rating ~25.71% =~843 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~15.2% Haste = ~499 Haste Rating ~19.98% =~655 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~9.9% Haste = ~325 Haste Rating ~14.27% =~468 Haste Rating

Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura only
0/5 GotE = ~45.6% Haste = ~1497 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~37.4% Haste = ~1226 Haste Rating ~39.80% =~1305 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~30.0% Haste = ~985 Haste Rating ~33.97% =~1114 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~23,4% Haste = ~768 Haste Rating ~28.15% =~923 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~17.4% Haste = ~573 Haste Rating ~22.32% =~732 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~12.0% Haste = ~395 Haste Rating ~16.50% =~541 Haste Rating

Numbers in Bold are the new results.

Formula Source
http://elitistjerks.com/1079687-post272.html

EDIT #1: I have verified in game that WotAT and other outside sourses do indeed work the same way and support the formula I have posted.

EDIT#2: Forgot to type some division symbols.

EDIT#3: I forgot to state that 5/5 GotEM without any other buffs or talent you would need ~655 Haste Rating or ~19.98%

EDIT #4: Based on a response from Uliko, I corrected the wording at the top to reflect the fact that GotEM% reduction can be applied off the 1.5 GCD OR the GCD after Haste. Both results in the same result.