With the proposed changes to spirit regen (which I noticed in the Restoration Trinkets thread linking to mmo-champion.com), which will decrease spirit regen and increase the effects of intensity and other similar talents, will this decrease the effect on Innervate significantly?

Pretty much everything else regeneration based off Spirit has been announced to be compensated for the change to keep things relatively equal to pre-3.1.
Hopefully not mentioning Innervate was just a mistake and it is intended to be updated too, assuming that is done then we have no change to any of our stats from this effect but if Innervate is left alone then it will be crippling to Spirit and a very small nerf to Intellect too.

It's just a tad odd if their intention was to nerf Innervate with the logic that it is overpowered, if this is the case then a baseline nerf for all Druids is understandable so that Moonkins and Ferals do not have such a strong Utility to give away but if that is the case I hope they can add in a self only improvement from it deep in Resto so we are not really effected.

The other portion of the purposed nerf is changing the way that clearcasting procs work which could also be a dangerous change for ferals if they decide to mess with their gains from it.

The hidden silver lining could be from this bullet point...

"We are also taking a close look at clearcasting procs themselves. One likely outcome is to change them to an Innervate-like surge of mana so that the net benefit is the same, but healers won’t shift to out-of-casting regeneration so often."

They particularly mention an innervate like effect for clearcasting so that the net benefit is the same without the ooc regen shift. If they know how to play with the values to balance it out to its previous bonus then hopefully they will do the same with innervate itself. I'm not sure how they will be able to do this though with the wide range in mana costs because I know I'm not the only one that uses that OoC proc for expensive stuff when I can.

They don't want to keep the things the same, they want to nerf overall healer regen (except Shamans, the only healer than can still have mana problems). I don't think they will adjust Innervate up or anything.

It seems as if you're implying blizzard is not making these changes in an attempt to decrease overall mana regen. However, they have stated pretty explicitly that mana regen is too powerful and they are trying to decrease it. Reducing regen out of 5sr is just one method by which they are reducing overall regen.

For reference: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Upcoming Changes to Mana Regeneration

Yes reading that post is good, I will point out the two important parts for us here:

A) Regeneration while not casting (outside of the “five second rule”) will be decreased. We think that (1) the ability to cast heal over time spells and then sit back and (2) benefitting from a clearcasting proc that also gets you out of the five second rule both provide too much mana regeneration, even over short time periods.

B) To make this change, we are reducing mana regeneration granted by Spirit across the board. However we are also boosting the effects of talents such as Meditation that increase regeneration while casting. The net result should be that your regeneration while casting will stay about the same, but your not-casting regeneration will be reduced. This change will have little impact on dps casters, since they are basically always casting.


As you can see this is not a "we must nerf mana regeneration in huge ways" change, just one which reduces the gains for managing your 5SR which we could get and as for the most part we did not do this that often so it's a small loss for us. Innervate however has nothing to do with this mechanic and while even if it was buffed to say 800% (assuming regeneration got halved) we would still see a slight reduction in mana returned but nothing near the huge amount it could end up being if left unchanged.

All we have at this point are intentions, not numbers. But the intentions are clearly stated: nerf mana regen. Nearly across the board. Spirit nerfing is part of it, aimed principally at druids and holy priests. Paladins are covered elsewhere. Shamans, who needed some help already, are left out, as are apparently disc priests. But imagine for a moment that 3.1 hits and mana was nerfed in a very flat manner instead, say 20% reduction to regen by all means. You find yourself as a tree in Sapphiron 2.0, undergeared, hurting for mana cuz the fight is taking much longer than it should. You know exactly what you would do, you'd fight for OoC procs every way you could and grasp desperately at every possible second outside the FSR. This is exactly what I had been busy gearing for up until this announcement. Druids were uniquely equipped to use this as a viable technique to skirt around mana issues and Blizz knows it, especially in Sapph-style fights that feature constant steady raid damage with no crazy spikes. The fact that we don't do it now is hardly important. This is a preemptive nerf at a technique that would have immediately gained popularity. In this context, I do not really expect Innervate to be compensated, as this change appears to be aimed largely at spirit-stacking druids. I also wonder if they'll avoid putting out an alch trinket upgrade right now for fear that all healers will feel it to be mandatory. I also expect to start seeing druids talk about dreamstate more. I look forward to getting some numbers to crunch, but for now, I'm putting a list together of gem and enchants and pieces I'll need to switch over to high int.

Since the change to Replenish will probably happen at the same time as the change to mana, I might keep Tranquil Spirit... but if mana really doesn't stress me out so much even after that, I'm finally considering picking up Replenish with this build:

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Druid -> Talent Calculator

Currently I use no Replenish: WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Druid -> Talent Calculator

The thought is that I wild growth people more often than I rejuv random people, and that talent adds some nice utility. Still... not that excited about it. Also, w/o 4set t7 I might not be using nourish as much as I do now:

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Anyone else thinking the same thing?

Was actualy thinking about the same specc seeing the change to replenish

Wild growth will hit more targets and since it is ticking every second it will give faster mana then rejuv.

I wasn't aware we had notes stating the chance that Revitalize will proc from Wild Growth yet.

I generally use Regrowth over Nourish like most of you have mentioned here. However, there are situations where that .5 second cast time is important. One situation is the Loatheb fight, where we need to get as much healing done in those 4 second windows as we can. When I need to heal my tank during that fight, I use nourish (twice, if I time it right).