Resto (PvE) Healing Discussion - Page 3

kywirelessguy · 12/29/08, 12:14 PM

Edit: Horrible

Playered · 12/29/08, 12:33 PM

In a perfect situation where there is no overhealing etc Regrowth(Glyphed) will pump out higher HPS than Nourish(4t7) by about 500-700 HPS.
However the chance of you having this situation is unrealistic and Regrowth diminishes at a faster rate than Nourish to the point where it really doesn't matter what you decide at this stage of the game.

The 'best' form of healing will probably boil down to weaving Nourish inbetween Regrowth ticks then landing Regrowth right after a tick or something but that is even more anal retentive than what Hunters used to do.

Provided that Nourish eventually gets a Glyph which increases its output then it will become unquestionably superior for tank healing.

Anaram · 12/29/08, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by malthrin

Right, the only argument that I've seen for Nourish is that sometimes you just don't have the extra .5s to Regrowth. Two counterpoints to that:
1) If the tank is taking enough damage that he'll die in less than two seconds, do you really want to be casting a 5k heal instead of 8k + Living Seed?
2) What on earth were you doing that let the tank get so low, or that you didn't predict the damage?

1) Regrowth is not 8k + living seed. It's about 5.5k plus extras if you crit which is in no way guaranteed - you've just got 46% better critical chance than on Nourish.

2) Show me a fight where the tank "doesn't get so low" and I'll show you a fight where it really doesn't matter whether you use Regrowth or Nourish. Or if the damage is 100% predictably timed why not just use healing touch while at it, you get ~9k guaranteed without glyphs - not that the damage often is that predictable.

• malthrin · 12/29/08, 12:58 PM

There are plenty of fights that tanks drop dangerously low, but I think you're overestimating the difference between 1.5 and 2.0 - nothing even swings that fast; odds are that the tank will take 1 melee swing between the start of your cast, whether it's Nourish or Regrowth, and its end. What you're trying to do is ensure he survives the swing after that. If it really is more urgent than that, if you're worried that the tank is going to die to the very next swing, that's when you Swiftmend or NS HT. Both of which heal more, faster, than Nourish.

Vazu · 12/29/08, 1:11 PM

Originally Posted by Playered

In a perfect situation where there is no overhealing etc Regrowth(Glyphed) will pump out higher HPS than Nourish(4t7) by about 500-700 HPS.
However the chance of you having this situation is unrealistic and Regrowth diminishes at a faster rate than Nourish to the point where it really doesn't matter what you decide at this stage of the game.

The 'best' form of healing will probably boil down to weaving Nourish inbetween Regrowth ticks then landing Regrowth right after a tick or something but that is even more anal retentive than what Hunters used to do.

Provided that Nourish eventually gets a Glyph which increases its output then it will become unquestionably superior for tank healing.

..and really, if people are focused on using Nourish when Nature's Grace isn't up and weaving that into our direct healing rotation, doesn't that greatly diminish our role? I mean, we can tank heal, but we're so much more useful rolling HOTs than we are trying to decide how best to single target heal efficiently. Blizzard's whole "let's make things even" philosophy with Wrath is confusing sometimes. We really didn't need a spell like Nourish. Regrowth is plenty fast, especially with Nature's Grace. Ask yourself honestly, would you really miss Nourish if Blizzard suddenly decided to get rid of it?

GregGates · 12/29/08, 1:52 PM

The current state of Druid healing is very exciting to me as my character approaches 80. The last time I healed in raid fashion on my Druid was 2005, the era of downranked HTs, very few player buffs and precise breaks. The number of rich talents and options available to us now is rather joyous, but ah that's 3.0 (OoC alone is incredible).

During the leveling curve I have healed many instance runs, first as pure Balance and more recently as 5x/0/11. I realize these instances are easy, but it has helped get me back into the swing of mouse binds (CastParty was what I first used in 2004 on my Priest and then again on Druid, now using Grid + Clique). The glyphed HTs are good fun, especially with the .5 crit reductions.

If you could only see my face when I read comments about using Regrowth as a main repeat heal. It will take time for me to get accustomed to this concept.

I am drawn to Lifebloom and fast HTs at this current moment in time. The WG change seems excellent, though it baffles me to see Blizzard treating these two spells as if they are the same.

Thank you for the opportunity to participate in the discussion.

Playered · 12/29/08, 2:00 PM

The intention was for useful information about Addons (ie: Clique is good because it lets you x/y/z which saves you time by allowing you to a/b/c faster) to be mentioned, not for people to give their personal thoughts about why their addon is better and all their horrible key bindings.

If you really want to go into that horrible direction please make a new thread to litter instead and if you are unable to make one then really I'm saving you infractions most likely.

I will update the first post in order to curb the stupid.

Anaram · 12/29/08, 2:41 PM

Originally Posted by Vazu

would you really miss Nourish if Blizzard suddenly decided to get rid of it?

I would at least. Nourish is great for healing the raid in some situations and it's definitely my go-to heal for tank healing.

Nourish casts half a second faster than regrowth. Regrowth casts half a second faster than talented healing touch. Adding the casino factor that is regrowth just doesn't seem worth it for tank healing.

Lord BEEF · 12/29/08, 3:48 PM

Glyphed regrowth is better in my opinion because of the obvious fact that it leaves a heal over time effect that heals for something like 7000-12000 over 27 seconds, depending on your gear and whether it's the first cast or not.

Healing for 1000+ every three seconds is no joke and can free you to do other things.

Jaxon · 12/29/08, 5:03 PM

I'm wondering if any more experienced druids can give me feedback. I'm playing a restoration druid after Wrath because of a lack of reliable and non-douche healers available. Last night was my first 10 man raid.

Mostly kept lifebloom on one or two tanks, with rejuvenation and Regrowth when there was need for more heals.

The only time I ran into problems was on Kel'thuzad when I couldn't keep the guardian tank up while he was in an ice block.

Stasis Logs are here and specific fight logs are here. The raid will be the one from December 28th. My druid's name is Canoodles and an armory link is available
.

Because a lot of my healing has been intuited from skill/talent descriptions, I'm wondering if there is anything obvious (to lifetime druids) that I'm missing. I've spent a lot of time reading these forums and others to get a wide variety of views.

moxy · 12/29/08, 5:49 PM

There are at least 2 very specific and perhaps obvious uses for nourish in raids: in heavy tank healing situations where you have between 1.5 and 2 seconds left on your LB stack; and KT iceblock, an ability that almost seems to have been specifically designed to give nourish a use.

Helius · 12/29/08, 5:52 PM

Originally Posted by Jaxon

I'm wondering if any more experienced druids can give me feedback. I'm playing a restoration druid after Wrath because of a lack of reliable and non-douche healers available. Last night was my first 10 man raid.

Mostly kept lifebloom on one or two tanks, with rejuvenation and Regrowth when there was need for more heals.

The only time I ran into problems was on Kel'thuzad when I couldn't keep the guardian tank up while he was in an ice block.

Stasis Logs are here and specific fight logs are here. The raid will be the one from December 28th. My druid's name is Canoodles and an armory link is available
.

Because a lot of my healing has been intuited from skill/talent descriptions, I'm wondering if there is anything obvious (to lifetime druids) that I'm missing. I've spent a lot of time reading these forums and others to get a wide variety of views.

Just what I can gather from the death log:
Kel'thuzad try 4

If you expand Wonkey you can watch his death.

He starts out in that small timeframe as -3kish HP. It looks as though either #1 you hadn't stacked your LB's or Rejuv's before he picked up the Guardians or #2 you let your LB's drop off.

@3.4 he was -3.6k
@4.1 you got your last LB on him
@5.6 you got a Rejuv on him
@8.2 he died to a hit after 3 Frost Blasts

My advice would be to closely monitor when the Guardians are coming out and get your hots stacked before he picks them up OR make sure to not let your hots fall off in the first place. On top of that you *should* have landed a Regrowth but your other healer should have pumped a Regrowth on him as soon as he gained the Frost Blast. ON TOP OF THAT your other healer (a druid) should have had at the very least 3 lb stacks on that tank too. Same lesson for him too, hot him up before the adds spawn.

Remember as a druid you have to allow time to get your hots up if possible and always keep them refreshed if possible. That lesson alone would have yielded purples on that last try.

Fallenangel · 12/29/08, 5:54 PM

There's no way you're getting regrowth crits for 5.5k in a raid setting. With a flask and a stacked illustration, but no raid buffs, I'm hitting regrowths at around 4.8k and crits accordingly around the 7.2k mark. With the glyph you'll see crits close to 9k, and it's really not hard to always have a regrowth hot on the tank constantly.
Really though your best bet is SM. It heals for stupid amounts (8.3k noncrits with the same setup as above) and is on a very short cooldown. Would be nice if they fixed / changed it to always be based on the rejuv hot if you have the glyph, but that's my only gripe with it.

Jaxon · 12/29/08, 5:56 PM

Originally Posted by Helius

My advice would be to closely monitor when the Guardians are coming out and get your hots stacked before he picks them up OR make sure to not let your hots fall off in the first place. On top of that you *should* have landed a Regrowth but your other healer should have pumped a Regrowth on him as soon as he gained the Frost Blast. ON TOP OF THAT your other healer (a druid) should have had at the very least 3 lb stacks on that tank too. Same lesson for him too, hot him up before the adds spawn.

Remember as a druid you have to allow time to get your hots up if possible and always keep them refreshed if possible. That lesson alone would have yielded purples on that last try.

Thanks for the feedback. I had let Lifeblooms drop off Wonkey after having my attention diverted. The last couple Kel'Thuzad attempts were pretty horrible and I know now that I was forgetting things(Nature's Swiftness!) due to be tired and lack of experience.

Helius · 12/29/08, 5:57 PM

Originally Posted by moxy

There are at least 2 very specific and perhaps obvious uses for nourish in raids: in heavy tank healing situations where you have between 1.5 and 2 seconds left on your LB stack; and KT iceblock, an ability that almost seems to have been specifically designed to give nourish a use.

With my grid setup or proper debuff setup on raid frames you can easily Regrowth frost blast. Its 26% of health every second for 4 seconds. Assuming you're keeping ppl healed up for the most part that's really all you need.

As far as tank healing. Refresh LB first then get back into regrowth. If you're w/i 2 seconds of your LB dropping off... lag alone will penalize you for using a nourish first.