Resto (PvE) Healing Discussion - Page 32

Playered · 02/26/09, 9:45 PM

Thankfully they have changed the proc rate of Revitalize on the PTR (% unknown) with Wild Growth but right now it seems pathetically low as the chance of getting 1 proc on a target per cast seems pretty dire.
Hopefully this means they will put the other HoTs on the effect too which should flesh it out better because the % it is at now keeps the talent at a near pre 3.1 level of 'bad'.

Kreoss · 02/26/09, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Playered

Thankfully they have changed the proc rate of Revitalize on the PTR (% unknown) with Wild Growth but right now it seems pathetically low as the chance of getting 1 proc on a target per cast seems pretty dire.
Hopefully this means they will put the other HoTs on the effect too which should flesh it out better because the % it is at now keeps the talent at a near pre 3.1 level of 'bad'.

I can confirm this. I've been testing it on the PTRs using Rejuv and then WG and Revitalize is clearly ticking a lot more when using Rejuvenation. There is also a bug in the tooltip where it says it returns 15% mana. I even thought it was base mana but changed some gear and the net result was the same, so it's definitely a typo.

voxxington · 02/27/09, 1:02 AM

There is also a bug in the tooltip where it says it returns 15% mana. I even thought it was base mana but changed some gear and the net result was the same, so it's definitely a typo.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it is, indeed, 15% of base mana - wouldn't the amount remain the same no matter what? Changing your gear would have no impact. This change could be so that it gives an actual benefit to enhance shaman/ret paladin. More testing/confirmation would be nice.

Hotalicious · 02/27/09, 2:28 AM

Originally Posted by Playered

Thankfully they have changed the proc rate of Revitalize on the PTR (% unknown) with Wild Growth but right now it seems pathetically low as the chance of getting 1 proc on a target per cast seems pretty dire.
Hopefully this means they will put the other HoTs on the effect too which should flesh it out better because the % it is at now keeps the talent at a near pre 3.1 level of 'bad'.

Looks like those 3 points may go back into Tranquil Spirit. I must say I am enjoying the increased Nourish crit chance.

Mourad · 02/27/09, 3:42 AM

Maybe I'm dense, but under what circumstances would it be better to glyph Regrowth over Nourish? It seems as though both glyphs are primarily used for single target (MT) healing situations, and it seems as though the Nourish glyph would be superior in that case. Am I missing something?

voxxington · 02/27/09, 4:45 AM

The only thing I could think of would be a pure tank healing glyph set up, as well as the nourish glyph. You'd gain a 20% stronger hot on regrowth, which, while a small boost to your HPS, is still a boost. A Druid that chooses a 'tank heals' vs. 'raid heals' setup for Dual Spec, once implemented, might roll with both glyphs, as opposed to just one. It's also possible the regrowth glyph will be altered to serve another purpose.

mhenrique85 · 02/27/09, 9:47 AM

• Lifebloom: Mana cost of all ranks doubled. When Lifebloom blooms or is dispelled, it now refunds half the base mana cost of the spell per application of Lifebloom, and the heal effect is multiplied by the number of applications.

World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> [Updated] 3.1.0 PTR Patch Notes

/sadpanda

Playered · 02/27/09, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by mhenrique85

• Lifebloom: Mana cost of all ranks doubled. When Lifebloom blooms or is dispelled, it now refunds half the base mana cost of the spell per application of Lifebloom, and the heal effect is multiplied by the number of applications.

World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> [Updated] 3.1.0 PTR Patch Notes

/sadpanda

Wow they really do not want LB being used on more than 1 tank do they, I guess that beyond pure MT healing they would rather us use RJ/Nourish or so instead of just multi rolling LB on different tanks. Nice catch on finding that as I didn't pay much attention to these notes before.

[e] I used rather a lot of expletives when I read that change I have to say.

Rijndael · 02/27/09, 10:24 AM

Lifebloom costs more than Regrowth now? Is there even a point to roll it on even 1 tank now?

The thing is, a bloom heals for as much as a triple stack (only all at once). So letting a single lifebloom bloom on a tank is the same HPS as rolling a triple stack, only it now costs half the mana to let it bloom (and the HPS is more bursty).

mhenrique85 · 02/27/09, 10:27 AM

Well with mana regen change (meanly becouse of Innervate) and now with this change, i think Glyph of Innervate, Swiftmend will be a MUST HAVE. I think they find a way to Nerf rolling LB, couse it was too powerfull, but i think double the cost is too much...

Atm, I have 342 mana regen self buffed, resto specced, + Jetzebell and DC: Illusion that gives me plus 45 mana regen. Probably now, we ll just soft cap haste and focus on mana regen after SP. Probably now we ll just roll LB on MT and bloom it with the other HOTS on OTs.

Using Glyph of LB as the third Glyph

10 sec we will spend more 464 mana

its a 232 mp5 nerf... probably more since with refresh it before 10 seconds.

Rhaegal · 02/27/09, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Rijndael

Lifebloom costs more than Regrowth now? Is there even a point to roll it on even 1 tank now?

No, Lifebloom is still cheaper. Currently Lifebloom is 14% of base mana before talents, and Regrowth is 33%. Moonglow is the only talent that affects Regrowth and not Lifebloom, and that brings Regrowth down to just over 30% before other talents. Doubling Lifebloom makes it 28%, which is still less than 30%. 2T7 (which we won't have forever obviously, but at least for now) brings it down to 26.6%. This is mostly irrelevant, because mana cost per spell doesn't tell you anything about HPS, HPM, or the actual practical use of a healing spell, but since you mentioned it, I wanted to clarify.

Even if Lifebloom suddenly became terrible HPS and HPM (note that the HPS is not being changed, only HPM on an already insanely efficient spell, and then only on tank healing), Lifebloom's job is totally different than, say, Regrowth. A 3-stack of Lifebloom's ability to smooth a tank's health is well worth the mana cost to me, even costing double what it does now.

Norfair · 02/27/09, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by mhenrique85

Well with mana regen change (meanly becouse of Innervate) and now with this change, i think Glyph of Innervate, Swiftmend will be a MUST HAVE. I think they find a way to Nerf rolling LB, couse it was too powerfull, but i think double the cost is too much...

Atm, I have 342 mana regen self buffed, resto specced, + Jetzebell and DC: Illusion that gives me plus 45 mana regen. Probably now, we ll just soft cap haste and focus on mana regen after SP. Probably now we ll just roll LB on MT and bloom it with the other HOTS on OTs.

Using Glyph of LB as the third Glyph

10 sec we will spend more 464 mana

its a 232 mp5 nerf... probably more since with refresh it before 10 seconds.

That's mana cost out of tree form. In ToL it's actually 366 more mana, so a 183 mp5 nerf. I also have a holy paladin alt and I have to say keeping mana with her is a lot harder than with my druid (even considering gear differences). I think a mana increase was needed, but we are already getting a hit with Innervate and I think doubling the mana cost on our bread-and-butter spell is a bit too much. We'll see for sure after some testing on the PTR tonight/tomorrow though.

Rijndael · 02/27/09, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Rhaegal

No, Lifebloom is still cheaper. Currently Lifebloom is 14% of base mana before talents, and Regrowth is 33%. Moonglow is the only talent that affects Regrowth and not Lifebloom, and that brings Regrowth down to just over 30% before other talents. Doubling Lifebloom makes it 28%, which is still less than 30%. 2T7 (which we won't have forever obviously, but at least for now) brings it down to 26.6%. This is mostly irrelevant, because mana cost per spell doesn't tell you anything about HPS, HPM, or the actual practical use of a healing spell, but since you mentioned it, I wanted to clarify.

Even if Lifebloom suddenly became terrible HPS and HPM (note that the HPS is not being changed, only HPM on an already insanely efficient spell, and then only on tank healing), Lifebloom's job is totally different than, say, Regrowth. A 3-stack of Lifebloom's ability to smooth a tank's health is well worth the mana cost to me, even costing double what it does now.

I am sorry, I am probably just confused, but doesn't wowhead list Regrowth as 29% of base mana before talents? (This doesn't really affect your reasoning much). I guess even in the current state a triple stack of lifebloom compares reasonably favorably with paladin FoL spam.

Rhaegal · 02/27/09, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Rijndael

I am sorry, I am probably just confused, but doesn't wowhead list Regrowth as 29% of base mana before talents? (This doesn't really affect your reasoning much).

Regrowth's wowhead entry: Regrowth - Spell - World of Warcraft
Unless we're looking at two different versions of the site, it's listing 33%. It's possible that's outdated, and since that's what I'm basing my numbers on, I could be wrong. But yeah, minor point--either way they're going to be comparable mana cost (1-3% base mana difference) for a completely different effect.

[edit] Also, I hadn't thought of this in terms of new content and the effective "Innervate nerf" coming in the form of reduced gains from spirit OO5SR. In current content, I use innervate maybe once or twice a week, usually on a moonkin or mage, and don't have it glyphed, but I imagine that's very likely to change in Ulduar. It does seem a little much that they're throwing two mana "nerfs" at us at once, but presumably their testing indicates it's not too much. Hopefully it just means needing to be smarter with healing, not that mana management is going to become harder than actually keeping people alive. We'll see.

Maax · 02/27/09, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Rhaegal

Regrowth's wowhead entry: Regrowth - Spell - World of Warcraft
Unless we're looking at two different versions of the site, it's listing 33%. It's possible that's outdated, and since that's what I'm basing my numbers on, I could be wrong. But yeah, minor point--either way they're going to be comparable mana cost (1-3% base mana difference) for a completely different effect.

[edit] Also, I hadn't thought of this in terms of new content and the effective "Innervate nerf" coming in the form of reduced gains from spirit OO5SR. In current content, I use innervate maybe once or twice a week, usually on a moonkin or mage, and don't have it glyphed, but I imagine that's very likely to change in Ulduar. It does seem a little much that they're throwing two mana "nerfs" at us at once, but presumably their testing indicates it's not too much. Hopefully it just means needing to be smarter with healing, not that mana management is going to become harder than actually keeping people alive. We'll see.

That is Rank 7, lower ranks have higher base mana costs.

Regrowth - Spell - World of Warcraft