• Playered

Living seed is hardly a great synergy with HoTs as it is more likely to turn your ticks into overhealing on any encounter beyond Patchwerk type fights.

 

Dav1l

Your hots will be most likely turned into overhealing by other healers on non Patchwerk-like fights, so your argument is not that good. Also, the point of these powerhealing talents and talents that reduce the spike on the tank by a great amount is the Patchwerk-like encounters.

And I would love to see sugestions on where you put your talents, if you take them out of Living Seed. Replenishment is not that much of an option.

 

Rensaelys

I don't have a whole lot to add to the thread, to be honest. My feelings have already been expressed by many of the posters here, whether I agree with them or not. I would like to see Regrowth better balanced so that it isn't out number one go-to heal for burst, because as things stand right now, it outshines poor Nourish by miles at first. Only when you get some decent gear (4 piece T7) does Nourish even become viable, and even then, a lot of Druids will argue that isn't the case. Now, I used Nourish before I even had the gear and liked it, but I do admit it needs some serious help and hopefully it will be provided soon by Blizzard.

As far as HoT timers go, one of my favorite add-on timers is DoTimer. I admit the Wild Growth bit where it spams the add-on and therefore doesn't display the tank until WG wears off.. At the same time, it's incredibly effective otherwise and I have no trouble maintaining HoTs properly on my tank even with Wild Growth concealing the remaining time.

Another thing of note is the talent Replenish. I know we don't really have any 'cookie cutter' builds. I think this has to do with several things. The first being how easy content currently is and the fact that there are a number of our deep Resto talents that are pretty lackluster. I'm curious how others feel about Replenish. My raid currently has three resto Druids, two of which who swear by it and me, and I honestly feel the talent is garbage if you are a main-tank healer. With CoH being the way it is, and will be even after the patch, Druids are, as far as I know, main tank healers for most encounters. How could we not be? HoTs rule.

Even so, my raid supports primarily bear tanks and warrior tanks (mostly warriors unless we need offtanks). Being that Rejuv on DPS is only useful in certain, and very few, encounters (Sapphiron comes to mind), Rejuv will be on the tanks almost 90% of the time one spends inside of a raid instance. My question is this. How is Replenish at all a viable place to spend talent points? Warrior and bear tanks are hardly, if at *all*, rage starved and going over my raid's WWS reports reveals that my fellow Druid's are casting their Rejuvs, as I initially felt they would, on the tanks. I could see this talent being a *little* better if our MT was a Paladin, where the possible mana regen would be helpful but probably unnecessary. Given that our tanks are bears and warriors, I really am not sure why one would take it.

Any ideas as to why anyone would?

 

moxy

I tried a Malygos the other day using rejuv much more than I usually do, partly as practice for the patch and partly cuz I do think I've been under-using it. It was my top heal, accounting for 30-something %. Checking the WWS it looked as though my 3/3 replenish was providing in total somewhere around 10% the mana regen of the standard replenishments. I was pretty disappointed since I couldn't have really cast it any more than I did. On an average fight it must be much less. I think I'd be better served putting the points in Natural Perfection.

 

malthrin

Rejuv is amazing - it's cheap, even without the idol, and it's one of our highest healing/spellcast spells for fire and forget purposes. That said, Replenish still doesn't seem very good.

 

red

Replenish might not be great, but I certainly prefer it to natural perfection or tranquil spirit. If I had to choose, I'd take it before living seed, too. That being said I'm anything but tank healer, and I don't use direct heals very often at all. I think that they're all useful depending on how you heal, and I'm just glad to have a variety of viable options.

 

Oncelot

No disrespect but I also find the numbers that you are quoting impossible apple-to-apple comparison.

I do not have the exact number but just the range. I have 1.8K SP unbuff in Tree Form,

Regrowth -
Non Crits - 4xxx-5xxx
Crits - 7xxx-8xxx

Nourish - No HOTs
Non Crits - 3xxx-4xxx
Crits - 5xxx-6xxx

Nourish - with HOTs
Non Crits - 5xxx
Crits - 7xxx

My opinion for the discussion whether or not to use Nourish, is that it depends on the situation.

Like many others who have expressed the idea, Nourish is a great flash heal. Given the amount of haste on druid heal gears, Nourish base cast time can easily be 1.3seconds or lower (this is without haste procs or BL). So in situation where u need to spam to patch Tanks up, its very very good. Fights like Patch, or after a Decimate for example?

Regrowth have its place as well, fights where raid wide damage is constant, and you want to have at least a HOTs ticking on raiders at longer duration... I use regrowth. Think Malygos phase 2, or in OS where players somehow forgot to avoid the lava wave? or ppl getting ice tombed in KT which can be quickly fixed using a Regrowth + Swiftmend?

Even Healing touch have its use, say a pre-cast unglyphed HT on Tanks in Loatheb fight follow by Reju/WG on raid... win.

To date, I love healing as a druid, its because we have so many spells and tricks we can use in very different situation. Rejuvenation, Lifebloom, Nourish, Regrowth, Healing Touch, all have their places and situations where can be used.

My point is, avoid going into argument of this spell is better than that spell so I will use this spell exclusively...


I don't quite understand, I would assume the difference is 0.5 always because haste will reduce both spell proportionately? Hmm ... does haste reduces different spells' cast time differently?

off memory, my regrowth now cast in 1.8sec and my nourish in 1.3sec... seems to be about right with the 0.5seconds ....

 

Ashaera

Haste works in percentages not in actual amounts of -0.x second portions. 50% of 2seconds is not the same as 50% of 1.5seconds.
Nourish takes 75% the time of a regrowth to cast - this remains stable, but the actual difference in casttime varies at different hastelevels.

 

• uliko

x% haste means you cast x% more spells in any given timeframe. In 30s you can cast 20 nourishes or 15 regrowths, with 20% haste you can cast 24 nourishes or 18 regrowths. So you still cast 33% more nourishes even if the difference is lower then 0.5s.

Why hit food is bad
"You have to spend 10 seconds to apply it, you have to fish it and you cant use the feast."

 

Anaram

I like replenish myself. It's certainly not a game changing talent but if you cast rejuvenation lots it comes out pretty nice. According to my parses, in a typical fight (10-man) replenish would be around 10% of what replenishment returns. In 25-mans it's harder to account since there can be multiple druids.

 

• Playered

I'm curious if anyone can think of a reasonable way to test if Living Seed actually adds healing done or steals it from your HoTs.
I don't care about the fact LS might heal at better times where it helps you more than having to wait for HoT ticks or anything.

IE: RJ, RG & LB healing 100k each and LS healing 15k.
If you dropped LS would you end up with something like RJ, RG & LB healing 105k each instead? or would you still end up healing only 100k each and actually miss out on that free 15k healing done.

 

malthrin

Well, I think it's a reasonable assumption that each tier of speed steals healing from the one below it:
Shields steal from proc healing (LS, Earth Shield, PoM), which steal from 1 sec hots (Lifebloom, WG), which steal from 3 sec hots and instants (Rejuv, CoH), which steal from cast time heals. As to verifying it, I don't think it's possible - there's no combat log event for a hot tick that doesn't happen because the recipient is at full hp, right? It's the same reason we've never been able to do a full analysis of just how much our hots are really overhealing.

 

avanlee

Someone a couple pages back was looking for examples of wws'es of druids doing well. Here's our malygos kill and then attempts at 3 drakes last night (yes we wiped a lot, but we nearly got it and will get it next raid).

Wow Web Stats

As you can see druids can crush the competition when played correctly.

Basolish - US Frostwolf

 

Fallenangel

Don't think how anyone can say druids are falling behind - trees should be topping the meters at like 90% of the current content.
In regards to that particular WWS, sarth 3D is an excellent lifebloom fight. This was said here before but it's worth repeating - You always always keep a lifebloom stack on as many tanks as you can. There are very few, if any, exceptions to this rule.

 

• uliko

Just check the uptime of your hots and compare to the number of ticks and it'll give a decent view how much is wasted. You'll need some non-wws parse to see this though since wws doesn't have it.

Why hit food is bad
"You have to spend 10 seconds to apply it, you have to fish it and you cant use the feast."

 

turlockmike

As far as living seed, it seems like a good pvp talent and thats it. I dropped it for my raid healing and it hasn't changed anything at all. In fact, I used the extra points for 4 min CD on tranquility instead which is really really useful at times.

 

Lightflower

My take on the Living Seed issue is to observe that everyone is noticing that it is ~3% of our healing. We already spend 5 talent points to get Master Shapeshifter for the pasive 4% bonus which means that LS as a 3 point expenditure is actually 'better value' than it.

I also feel that the Nourish vs Regrowth debate has been done to death. If you want to weld yourself to 4T7 then Nourish is mathematically superior but until something changes glyph-wise, there really isn't much more to say.

What I would like to talk about please is gearing strategy of haste vs crit. While it's a little hard atm to land spot on the haste soft cap, my strategy has been to use that as the lower limit of my haste, get as close as possible to that value then gear for other stats. Maximising SP is obvious which leads to a reasonable mix of regen & crit.

Do others feel the same or do you think that we should be emphasising haste more since it seems to show greater throughput returns than crit in a situation where mana is not really an issue?

 

Whïspur

Which times? I can't think of a situation where I'd like to tranquility twice in 5 minutes, once in the beginning of the fight and again at the end of the fight for only the people in my group.

 

George

Past the haste GCD cap both haste and crit add nothing to HoT spells. If your healing breakdown is anything like mine... typically (on 25 man boss fights) 80%+ of my healing comes from rejuv, wildgrowth, lifebloom and swiftmend, neither haste or crit are going to add a huge addition.

I think of it like this, which would I rather when I need to cast direct heals? Landing my direct heals faster or having a chance that they crit and heal for more. Haste is more reliable because it isn't based on a chance and in the event that I do cast a direct heal chances are that I'm doing so because I want fast healing so haste suits that also. Crit on the other hand works with
the talents nature's grace and living seed and landing a crit at the right moment is a great thing.

Having said that I gauge upgrades based on spellpower more than anything else. I'm not going to give up spellpower to swap some haste for crit or vice-versa

 

turlockmike

Tranquility is great for 5 mans more than raids i guess where there is a lot of splash dmg. In raids, its good to have in case of emergencies, and with a 4 min CD it means I can use it more often. I might get living seed after the patch though, because blizz said that its not working properly right now.

 

Ploppy

Cooldown aside the thing I really apreciate about imp tranquility is actually the threat reduction. I don´t use it nearly as often as the cooldown permits, but talenting it turns it into a very powerfull "o crap" button. You never need it when things go according to plan, but things don´t always go according to plan. Whenever shit hits the fan its bloody wonderfull to have massive AoE heal on the ready with zero threat attached to it. Most of the time threat isn´t an issue eather, especially not as a healer. But there we have it again, most of the time isn´t every time. The talent makes it reliable for any situation, if you arent being beat upon then nothing will start beating you when you use it. If you ARE being beat upon then the old barkskin+tranc has the same effect as stopping a while not healing to let people grab adds off you exept that you didn´t haveto stop healing. Like haste these points offer reliability.

As a little bonus you get to be a bit lazy when you have the talent as well. You use it on tricky trashpulls before you clear those rooms with a shrug and still not worry about blowing the CD before you might actually need it on a boss. You can get your lazy raid going faster after a wipe by topping them off since you´ll have the CD back in a flash anyway.

Whatever math say about effective healing I´m really a big fan of imp tranquility for other reasons.

 

red

I would totally agree with what you're saying, except that Tranquility only heals party members; it's not a smart raid heal like CoH or WG. If it were, it would be worth putting points into. Usually the people in my party (healers) need healing less than others in emergency situations.

 

Raikagi

Tranquility is amazing for any 5 man fight that has a lot of AoE damage, Loken for instance, just use it and the fight is essentially reset with everyone topped back up to full. It almost trivialises these fights, bonus points if you manage to use it with a clearcasting. I agree that it should be changed in some way to make it a little more appealing for raids though, I basically never use it because the 5 people in my group are rarely the ones who need healing most, those 8 seconds would be better spent triaging the entire raid.

I'm considering moving points from Replenish to Improved Tranquility myself, not sure if it's worth the respec cost though. Depends on whether I want to keep doing heroics, as I've almost got all the badge gear and drops I need from them, might make going for the achievements a bit easier.

It boils down to that for me too. For me any haste or crit on my gear is incidental, pretty much all healing items have stam/int/spirit/spellpower plus one of either haste or crit. Unless you're specifically going for one stat over another for whatever reason then chances are both stats will be in roughly equal quantaties on your gear. That works for me because I value both about the same, haste makes heals hit sooner which is always great, and crit synergises fantastically with Living Seed and Natures Grace and serves to make your Regrowth more and more reliable.

Getting a 15k Natures Swiftness Healing Touch crit that procs a 4500 Living Seed when the tank is at 50% or lower is a great feeling too.

 

Ploppy

Aye aye, would be a true spell of awesomeness if you could heal an entire raid with it. (But would sadly also lead to druid stacking with imp tranquility as a solution to some bosses with predictable massive AoE damage.) But with totems and whatnot being raidwide now I often place myself in the tank group precisely for the reason of giving the tankgroup an extra o shit button. 5-mans is where the talent really shines but I like it a lot for raiding as well.

 

woodsyresto

I have a 16/0/55 rejuv/regrowth build which I have geared up to 14K health, 13.5K mana, +1900 heals, 188 haste and 606/203 regen. My glyphs are Regrowth/Swift/Innervate. I've run a reasonable number of instances, close to 250 badges, and with a good guild tank and dps group with either a pally or sham I fairly rarely use innervate in any 5 mans so me gear focus is on building haste.

Question 1 - I seem to have problems keeping under geared tanks standing in some 5 mans so am trying to figure out if my spell loading sequence is the best one possible. Typically I cast rejuv just pre pull, then walk in stacking my lifeblooms, then add regrowth. I then just keep the lifeblooms rolling and use swiftmend on little spikes and fall back to natswift/HT if I fall behind. Challenge is with some tanks the initial dmg has them down before I even get to natswift/HT. Is there a better loading sequence in this scenario?

Question 2 - I seem to have problems getting aggro on the pull when healing warrior tanks. Likely because I'm loading HoTs on the tank on the pull but why do I only have this problem with warrior tanks? Can I or they do anything to help mitigate this? Do all the HoTs generate the same aggro?

Question 3 - I don't know the other classes. What stat questions do you ask Pally, Druid and DK tanks to figure out if they are geared for heroics? So far I've just been looking at health with anything under 22K being a warning.....

Hope these questions aren't too basic for this forum.

Noob Healer - trying to get better