Regrowth does have pretty similar healing done per cast time to rejuvenation when you factor in a high crit rate, I can definitely see that working. Given multiple druids it might make sense to have one doing primarily regrowth with the other on rejuvenation.
The amount of healing rejuvenation does is extremely strong, but it doesn't really seem dominant compared to what other classes are doing. So far in Ulduar 25 there hasn't been any class that's at the top (or bottom) of all fights.
That's what I've been trying to get across in the last few pages, thank you for summing it up!
Also, the legendary mace's stats are on mmo-champion... Only 587 spellpower and crit/haste... Definitely should go us last :\
The proc is what makes it legendary. It should go to your best and most devoted healers first.
Work around the stats. Regem your gear slightly to make up for the mp5/spirit loss. The legendary is still the BiS for resto druids, and I feel the proc might even benifit us slightly more on a larger scale if it procs off of every tick(therefore making it multiple little shields)
Hey my guild is about to start Mimiron tonight on 25man. I was doing an hour or so off attempts on the 10man version but I'm curious if there's a huge changes that I should be prepared for and what you guys have found so far as the best way for a druid to heal this fight.
From what I've gathered it seems its a great fight to be spamming out rejuvs on the raid? When I was doing the 10man I was rejuving the raid then dropping 1 LB on every raid member, letting it bloom then refreshing rejuv across the board - rinse and repeat. It seemed to keep the raid up the if the blooms hit when someone took a spike then it was just that much better (I did not rely on it blooming but figured the extra lb tick + rejuv would be better than nothing)
Brambles is a pretty good talent for one caster druid in the raid to have, it's a decent raid dps increase. At least for most fights.
Giving up living seed for it is a bad idea though. Maybe natural perfection or revitalize or something like that.
So can I take that as conformation that Brambles does work on others? I see you have it specced also. I picked Revitalize maxed over Living Seed because I simply do not cast many regrowths right now. I find myself useing alot of ReJuv and Wild Growth. I seem to be in a mode in Ulduar of just trying to arrest health bar decline so that another healer with big heals can top them off before death. I was at full Living Seed, but noticed I wasn't getting much out of it according to ReCount so I thought brambles might be a bigger help to the raid.
Hey my guild is about to start Mimiron tonight on 25man. I was doing an hour or so off attempts on the 10man version but I'm curious if there's a huge changes that I should be prepared for and what you guys have found so far as the best way for a druid to heal this fight.
From what I've gathered it seems its a great fight to be spamming out rejuvs on the raid? When I was doing the 10man I was rejuving the raid then dropping 1 LB on every raid member, letting it bloom then refreshing rejuv across the board - rinse and repeat. It seemed to keep the raid up the if the blooms hit when someone took a spike then it was just that much better (I did not rely on it blooming but figured the extra lb tick + rejuv would be better than nothing)
Rejuv/WG spam + Regrowth/SM/Nourish on anyone that gets low.
P2 Mimiron in 25 man is the hardest phase for a healer compared to 10 man where it is pretty easy - it came as a little bit of a shock to me so be prepared for some pretty intense healing :P
Generally when i heal a raid like Naxx, I tend to Rejuv those taking minor Damage, Regrowth for faster health decrease, WG when the need to HoT multiple targets is needed. I tend to forget all about nourish. I have Regrowth Glyphed so I get the added healing from it, I also Glyphed Swift Mend to no consume the HoTs. I rarely to never use HT unless I spec into Nature's Swiftness to get the instant mega heal when needed which is rare. I tend to use LB alot as well and have gotten 13-14k blooms at the end (obviously crits) I also soec into Living Seed but I just like the possible Pre-emptive heal potential offered. I need to get an addon to track my healing by spell if there is one. I tend to do well on raid heals and help heal the tank(s) when needed. I never have nor will glyph HT as I won't give up the mega heal for the faster cast. That's why I spec into Nature's Swiftness. Feel free to armory me for the spec I use, the gear you will see is most likely my Boomkin DPS set not the resto set. So just keep that in mind as my stats are different for healing.
Hey my guild is about to start Mimiron tonight on 25man. I was doing an hour or so off attempts on the 10man version but I'm curious if there's a huge changes that I should be prepared for and what you guys have found so far as the best way for a druid to heal this fight.
From what I've gathered it seems its a great fight to be spamming out rejuvs on the raid? When I was doing the 10man I was rejuving the raid then dropping 1 LB on every raid member, letting it bloom then refreshing rejuv across the board - rinse and repeat. It seemed to keep the raid up the if the blooms hit when someone took a spike then it was just that much better (I did not rely on it blooming but figured the extra lb tick + rejuv would be better than nothing)
Wiped on Mimiron for far too long last night. Phase2 is definitely most intense phase healing wise, but the rest are no slouch either. Be prepared to heal your face off. I was essentially getting rejuv up on as many people possible (prio on my side of the room, we split it up to minimize the machine gun damage). WG on cooldown, and nourish spamming inbetween.
There wasn't a solid attempt I wasn't on top of the healing meters by a good margin.
my guild and i wiped quite a bit on mimron. from what i read it seems rejuv and WG is the way to go. does anyone use regrowth that much after phase 1? i have found that it tends to take to much cast time while I can be gettin rejuv up on the raid quicker.
I did Rejuv/WG for Mimiron P2. Regrowth doesn't match it in healing/execution time once you factor in overwriting your Regrowth hots before they finish ticking. How many healers are folks running for that? We did 6, which felt uncomfortably light.
I did Rejuv/WG for Mimiron P2. Regrowth doesn't match it in healing/execution time once you factor in overwriting your Regrowth hots before they finish ticking. How many healers are folks running for that? We did 6, which felt uncomfortably light.
Regrowth becomes viable if you have decent haste and Celestial Focus, don't overwrite the hot, and cast it only when you know the direct portion will not overheal. My algorithm for Mimi phase 2 is to Rejuv/Wild Growth UNLESS someone is low enough to not waste Regrowth. Currently I have 470 haste rating and Celestial Focus, so about 570ish rating. Priests abusing PoH (and Divine Hymn if necessary) help a lot on P2, by the way.
I did Rejuv/WG for Mimiron P2. Regrowth doesn't match it in healing/execution time once you factor in overwriting your Regrowth hots before they finish ticking. How many healers are folks running for that? We did 6, which felt uncomfortably light.
we went with 6 and i would agree that it did seem a little light. maybe that is why we were wiping. is anyone running with more then 6? maybe we just need to pick up our game...
We were taking 7-8 healers for the first few attempts on Mimiron and found that phase 2 healing was still tight because the phase was just lasting too long. We've taken 6 heals for both kills and it has worked fine (1 paladin, 1 resto shaman, 2 holy priests, 2 resto druids).
It is worth noting again that 2 holy priests can produce some incredible numbers and burst healing in that phase. It is probably the perfect example of we cushion, they top off.
we went with 6 and i would agree that it did seem a little light. maybe that is why we were wiping. is anyone running with more then 6? maybe we just need to pick up our game...
We took 7 for the first and lost 2 of them early in p2. So it should be doable with 6 if they are on the ball.
We had one issue that we had to work through though. We run melee heavy for the fight and the splash damage into the melee was just ridiculous. So they ran through Mim to the other side of the guns to reduce the splash and with ranged spread out made p2 pretty easy to heal through.
That's what I've been trying to get across in the last few pages, thank you for summing it up!
Also, the legendary mace's stats are on mmo-champion... Only 587 spellpower and crit/haste... Definitely should go to us last :\
My guild gave me our first shard last night. Why? Because it doesn't always have to be about Min / Maxing. I know plenty of people who can beat the game on paper, analyze every spell, and still manage to be unable to move out of fire or do something other than pew pew.
If a guild gives this mace to people based on who would benefit from the proc the most, they don't appreciate their players IMO. I am not a theorycrafter but I can heal the roof off Ulduar, my guild recognized that, and I am grateful they feel I am who they want to give this mace to.
I would also like to add that I think they are being so secretive about this Mace because they want it to go to the Players NOT the Class.
My guild gave me our first shard last night. Why? Because it doesn't always have to be about Min / Maxing. I know plenty of people who can beat the game on paper, analyze every spell, and still manage to be unable to move out of fire or do something other than pew pew.
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I'll agree that being good with theorycraft doesn't always translate to being a good player. I have seen plenty of these cases, but Ideally, all your healers should be equal in skill, to some degree. So, the decision should come down to more of a min/max decision.
IMO, that mace is not that great for druids-- by a large margin, compared to the other healing classes. If I was a pally, or even a shaman, I would be perplexed by that decision to give it to a druid-- unless you were miles above my skill level, I was new, or any other reasonable excuse. In fact, I would almost go as far as to compare it to that guild who gave the [Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury] to a rogue over a hunter.
Getting right to it--nourish is great on paper, but just hasn't been a significant portion of my healing in practice. I've given it its fair shot: 4t7, talented, casting it every opportunity (target with a HoT, missing 6-8k health, needing a quicker heal, and I can stand still for ~1.5 sec). I have two nourish glyphs sitting in my bag, but haven't put one on--but I've done the math (adding 6-24% healing done) for the sake of comparison. And I've yet to do a boss for which nourish is more than 12% of my total healing--and usually, it's down around 5 or 6.
Further, regrowth has been around 15%--but over 75% of that has been the HoT, making its direct heal less than 5% of my total as well.
Running with Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft, that's 13 points spent strictly on the direct healing of nourish and regrowth (not counting nature's focus--I'd want it to get the HoT up, nor any of the general talents like GoN, nor majesty--req for splendor anyway, though I am counting living seed--mend crit rates are too low in comparison to worry about). What are they giving me? 10% less mana on a spell barely contributing to my healing done? 25% additional crit on healing totaling under 10% of my total? 195% crits instead of 150%, with the same issue? Plus I've been wearing T7 gloves and chest over dancing bear/prejudice just for the set bonus.
Edit: And yeah, I should at least switch 3 from tranq spirit to NG--but that's still 3 points spent on a talent which basically requires a nourish/regrowth cast)--and has its greatest effect on further regrowth/nourish casts.
My real question--what gives? Granted, 2healing ulduar10 would require more nourishes than 3healing it, but 3healing it leaves plenty of DPS so far--I would expect 2healing will become the norm once some gear gets spread around. Is there a better option that I just haven't seen? Brambles and celestial focus, maybe? Imp barkskin for pve? Even switching to 2/5 tranq spirit and 3/3 NG is still 3 points on nourish/regrowth (as it requires that cast first). We just don't really have anywhere else to go--I'm out of ideas. Or am I doing it wrong, despite having 10/13 bosses down and always keeping up with (usually surpassing) the other healers?
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No, I don't have WWS to show, believe me or don't. "HoTs on tank" means regrowth ticking, rejuv, and slowrolling lifebloom. This is all 10man, we don't run 25s. I've been on top of the effective healing nearly every fight--which isn't to say that I'm a better healer, but it does prove that I'm certainly not lagging behind the others.
Razorscale: 2 healed, druid/shaman. P1 HoTs on both tanks, rejuv to top off range, WG to top off melee, regrowth/mend for burst on a target without a HoT, nourish/mend for burst on a target with a HoT. P2 HoTs on the tank, nourish rarely necessary.
XT: 2healed, druid/shaman. HoTs on MT, slowroll + rejuv on OT, regrowth/mend (no hot) or nourish/mend for debuff burst, WG to top off from debuffs, preemptive rejuvs followed by WG for tantrum. Nourish was not necessary for additional HPS on either tank.
Ignis: 3healed, druid/shaman/priest. HoTs on both tanks, WG/rejuv to top off from flame jets, regrowth/mend (no HoT) or nourish/mend for slag pot, nourish for additional HPS on the MT.
Council: 3healed. HoTs on steelbreaker/runemaster tank, HoTs as range/cd-permitting on OT, WG to counter the aura, rejuv to top off from lightning/runes, rejuv/mend p3 for anyone who got stuck in a corner, nourish occasionally useful on MT.
Kologarn: 3healed. HoTs on tank, WG/rejuv to top off from an arm swipe, grasp worked just like slag pot, regrowth hot plus rejuv for OT during adds, nourish only occasionally useful for kologarn tank HPS.
Auriaya: 3healed. HoTs on tank, slowroll/rejuv for OT, WG/rejuv to top off raid, slag pot style burst if someone managed to get pounced.
Freya: 3healed. HoTs on tank, HoTs on OT for the two tanked waves, WG/rejuv to top off the raid.
Thorim: 3healed overall, 2healed gauntlet (which I ran). P1 HoTs on tank, WG raid. P2 HoTs on tank, WG raid, nourish rarely necessary.
Mimiron: 3healed. P1 HoTs on tank, nourish spam (and lifebloom timed to explode) during plasma blast, slag pot style burst on napalm (WG if melee). P2 WG on cooldown, rejuv ticking on all 10 raid members. P3 HoTs on tank, WG/rejuv to top off, nourish/mend occasionally useful (if the priest was slow to dispel). P4 HoTs on tank, slag pot style burst on napalm, rejuv to top off ranged, WG to top off melee (another healer covered the head's direct attacks).
Hodir: 3healed, single tank (in the 3 crafted FrR pieces). HoTs on tank, WG/rejuv top off the raid, preemptive rejuvs plus WG for raid during frozen blows, sniping low targets during frozen blows with mend/nourish (regrowth if no HoT up).
I'll agree that being good with theorycraft doesn't always translate to being a good player. I have seen plenty of these cases, but Ideally, all your healers should be equal in skill, to some degree. So, the decision should come down to more of a min/max decision.
IMO, that mace is not that great for druids-- by a large margin, compared to the other healing classes. If I was a pally, or even a shaman, I would be perplexed by that decision to give it to a druid-- unless you were miles above my skill level, I was new, or any other reasonable excuse. In fact, I would almost go as far as to compare it to that guild who gave the [Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury] to a rogue over a hunter.
Until it is made, no one can make any intelligent conclusion on what class it would be best for IN the game. Hell, we don't even know if the stats / proc are set in stone or exactly how the proc functions. Nothing else in this expansion has been unchanged, don't know why everyone assumes this won't be.
And if you have 7 equally skilled healers who have all been in the guild equal time with equal attendance, then IMO have them roll for it. Or else you are just saying "sorry shamans, druids, priests, but you rolled the wrong class, it is obvious that Pallies will benefit from this by a margin of .00039384903%, thanks for supporting us through the most difficult content in the game though, better luck next time."
And as for the bow going to a rogue comparison, that is in no way comparable to the 4 healing classes. All 4 classes heal, not all Rogues do their majority of their DPS from range.
Until it is made, no one can make any intelligent conclusion on what class it would be best for IN the game. Hell, we don't even know if the stats / proc are set in stone or exactly how the proc functions. Nothing else in this expansion has been unchanged, don't know why everyone assumes this won't be.
And if you have 7 equally skilled healers who have all been in the guild equal time with equal attendance, then IMO have them roll for it. Or else you are just saying "sorry shamans, druids, priests, but you rolled the wrong class, it is obvious that Pallies will benefit from this by a margin of .00039384903%, thanks for supporting us through the most difficult content in the game though, better luck next time."
It may or may not change in stat values in the near future, but it would be just plain silly to think "oh. well blizzard released the stats on the mace, its not that great for me, but I still want it because they could change the stats in the near future."
While I have no facts, other than common sense, to refute your made up stat of .00039384903%, Crit and haste have a much better synergy for pallys, shamans, and priests. Hell, the [Furious Gladiator's Salvation] is a better item then the legendary mace, for druids. If anything, the roll off should be between the "equal" pallys and shamans if your guild couldn't come to a conclusion. It's not a slap in the face to the other healing classes.
Haste is the second best throughput stat after spell power for druids, even past the soft cap. The fact that you think that gladiator mace is going to be better than the legendary raises some serious concerns on your credibility. I may be going out on a limb here, but I'm willing to bet that the proc > a blue socket + some stat differences. It's obviously best in slot for all healers.
Please speak no more of the mace being obviously better for paladins and wasted on druids when a huge chunk of its "legendariness" is tied into the proc. Since we do not know how the proc works and since GC has stated that it will be good even for resto druids, I think it is premature to ban the mace from druids. I'm getting really tired of having to remind people not to start theorycrafting a dubious proc based on a tooltip. It's like judging the worth of mongoose by its tooltip.
You guys are too stuck on stats. Legendaries are made by procs. There are some things we still don't know about the legendary mace -- it could still (and in fact very well might) end up being quite good for druids. Why? Because the proc might either have no internal cooldown or a very small one. In that case it would be equivalent to a 10-15% healing boost via absorb effects. In that case giving it to a druid translates into the largest HPS gain (since druids who spread hots are very hard to beat in HPS on many fights).
This is all quite aside of 'political issues' in giving that mace out.
Plus I've been wearing T7 gloves and chest over dancing bear/prejudice just for the set bonus.
I'm a bit confused. If you think nourish isn't worth it and the direct heal of regrowth isn't the main selling point, why do you want crit over haste? The only spell that really benefits from crit is nourish. Haste is much better if you're throwing regrowths around. If you're over the soft cap, just drop a point or 2 from GotEM for other talents.
I'm at the opposite situation, holding on the gloves and chest for the 2t7. Rest of the pieces are dreadful in my eyes.
I'm a bit confused. If you think nourish isn't worth it and the direct heal of regrowth isn't the main selling point, why do you want crit over haste? The only spell that really benefits from crit is nourish. Haste is much better if you're throwing regrowths around. If you're over the soft cap, just drop a point or 2 from GotEM for other talents.
I'm at the opposite situation, holding on the gloves and chest for the 2t7. Rest of the pieces are dreadful in my eyes.
I don't care much about the crit, but I prefer that plus the spellpower to the haste. The prejudice over the t7 chest is a loss of 4 spellpower for the haste, int, and 2mana5casting. I have no option for shoulders and legs other than 7.5 yet, once something drops I can reevaluate--I agree, neither are great. And I don't really see a point in dropping points from GotEM--as I mentioned, where do those talent points go, anyway? Reducing nourish's cost by another 2% (already switched 3 of those into NG), last point in subtlety, imp tranq, nat perfection, imp barkskin? I guess maybe imp barkskin with all the AoE flying around, but that hardly worth caring about. Brambles used to be decent, as it raised the threat cap for the DPS, but that's hardly an issue now.
Edit: My purpose in mentioning using those two pieces of T7 was to demonstrate that I was giving nourish as fair a chance as possible--and still finding it to be lacking in practice, in comparison to its theorycrafted effects.
04/24/09, 6:33 PM
