Resto (PvE) Healing Discussion - Page 46

Rijndael · 03/10/09, 1:12 PM

Originally Posted by wileyclaw

So, when you guys all talk of the "slow-stacking" technique, do you throw up a LB every 8-9 sec instead of put up the 3 stack right away, or just throw up one, let it bloom, rinse and repeat?

Also, if you are doing it the way that I think (1 every 8-9 sec.) don't you get to a point where its rolling and then do you make your choice to let it bloom and then start over?

Just looking for some clarification, thanks!

Slow stacking has been defined multiple times in this thread, the last time in my post on the same page as your post. Ideally, you always let it bloom at 3 stacks to get the mana refund.

Rhaegal · 03/10/09, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by Fallenangel

It was stated that 10 man raids are balanced around 3 healers. In fact I believe that resto druids are targetted specifically to push for the 3 healer setup since we excel at healer-low environments due to the high HPS and HPM of hots. We'll see how effective that is, especially with external mana sources - namely feral druid innervating a tree, or stacking DPS shamans for mana spring (that stacks, right?). I wouldn't be surprised to see innervate becoming self cast sometime in the near future.

Do you have a reference for the 3 healers per 10 man statement? I've been trying to find an actual blue post saying what they're balancing around, but everything I've seen has been pretty elusive. I'd really appreciate an official clarification, given its potential implications for my guild's raid set up for Ulduar, as we've run with 2 healers since launch.

And in answer to your question, yes, mana spring stacks--it's a pulsing +mana effect, not a buff to the players affected, so there's no buff to "overwrite." Considering it was specifically changed to being that way from being an actual buff, it can be reasonably assumed that it's intended and will stay that way. (At least until they revamp how mana spring totem works entirely, which they've hinted at recently but haven't alluded to what they actually plan on doing with it.)

Unravel · 03/10/09, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by Rhaegal

Do you have a reference for the 3 healers per 10 man statement? I've been trying to find an actual blue post saying what they're balancing around, but everything I've seen has been pretty elusive. I'd really appreciate an official clarification, given its potential implications for my guild's raid set up for Ulduar, as we've run with 2 healers since launch.

It's still on the front-page of MMO-Champion; direct link:

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

We still intend for you to be able to take any 3 healers (it will probably be closer to 3 for Ulduar) in a 10 player group and be good to go. However, as you start to try hard modes there is going to be more pressure to have every player in the role that most emphasizes their strengths. You may want a mix of healers more than ever on those encounters.

Playered · 03/10/09, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by Rhaegal

Do you have a reference for the 3 healers per 10 man statement? I've been trying to find an actual blue post saying what they're balancing around, but everything I've seen has been pretty elusive. I'd really appreciate an official clarification, given its potential implications for my guild's raid set up for Ulduar, as we've run with 2 healers since launch.

"We still intend for you to be able to take any 3 healers (it will probably be closer to 3 for Ulduar) in a 10 player group and be good to go. " (source)

While not the most ideal reference it is close enough without digging back into the beta(?) blue posts but if you spend some time looking you will find them.

lxsli · 03/10/09, 10:56 PM

How about the NG + NB changes? Seems with a 75% live crit rate, going to 50% on 3.1, if we can start two casts inside the window there's a 2*0.5 = 25% chance of not critting twice in a row, ie losing the buff. So leaving aside the desirability of constant hot stacks, it seems a good way to heal would be to RG or Nourish and every time NG procs, put up a RJ or LB.

In emergency, full RG/Nou spam should get a 12.5% failure rate on NG.

I plan to mess with Paininabox's sheet and get some new HPS/HPM figures out for Nourish vs Regrowth, but I've been wasting my time playing...

Paininabox · 03/11/09, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by lxsli

I plan to mess with Paininabox's sheet and get some new HPS/HPM figures out for Nourish vs Regrowth, but I've been wasting my time playing...

My baby!

I plan on getting out a 3.1 version of the sheet made sometime either this weekend, if I manage to be efficient with my time, or next weekend. If you have any suggestions for it, or would like specific kinds of calculations on spells, you may PM me or e-mail me and I'll see if I can put it in, provided it's a usable calculation.

EDIT: I also plan to get out an updated version of that mana regen analysis document sometime. I'll probably end up doing it the same time I'm working on the spreadsheet.

jula · 03/11/09, 8:44 AM

Originally Posted by atliens

I rolled LB/RJ/RG on the MT only and raid healed. As for mana, it got a little tight at the end on the last two attempts so I switched to slow-stacking LB when the boss was around 10%.

I think to judge how mana constrained we are we should at least use appropriate gear. So gear that trades off a lot of regen for a small boost in sp or crit should be avoided. Maybe you can use it on live without problems, but don't use these bad trade-off items when you test on ptr.
This means use the mana restore proc meta not the 8mp5 meta (I would also get [Je'Tze's Bell] if i were you).

Ragnorr · 03/11/09, 12:11 PM

Mana spring and BoW will no longer stack in 3.1. This means we will lose about 107 mp5 or so?

atliens · 03/11/09, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by jula

I think to judge how mana constrained we are we should at least use appropriate gear. So gear that trades off a lot of regen for a small boost in sp or crit should be avoided. Maybe you can use it on live without problems, but don't use these bad trade-off items when you test on ptr.
This means use the mana restore proc meta not the 8mp5 meta (I would also get [Je'Tze's Bell] if i were you).

Testing in throughput gear was by design.

In regen gear I have no mana issues on live. In regen gear I have no mana issues on PTR.
isn't as meaningful to me as
In throughput gear I have no mana issues on live. In throughput gear I have no mana issues on PTR.

It's the same concept we use in Physics. You test the extreme case to determine everything in between.

But thank you for pointing out my Meta, Rawr has it valued way ahead of Insightful Earthsiege Diamond because it has no buff option for "Replenishment" using the "Druid" model. I just realized this and am going to fix it tonight.

Paininabox · 03/11/09, 5:42 PM

Originally Posted by atliens

In throughput gear I have no mana issues on live. In throughput gear I have no mana issues on PTR.

Gear is only one variable. If you want to find out how mana issues change from live and the PTR, you hold all other variables constant. This means gear, but also playstyle, which you did not. You rolled LB only on the tank and slow-stacked towards the end. The reason why you didn't notice any mana issues was because you had already accounted for them in your playstyle. So, obviously, it appears that there was no change from live and 3.1, which is completely counter-intuitive because lifebloom doubling and OO5SR and Innervate losing 40% effectiveness are massive hits on mana.

That said, after this patch I think we'll be fine, but mana will be noticeably tighter than before.

Logros · 03/12/09, 3:08 PM

I've had zero increased mana tightness on Ignis, Hodir (pre aura-removal change anyway), or XT-002. I'll be doing more PTR fights this week, but I have gone pure throughput (SP flask, gothiks cowl w/Skyflare as my helm, forethought/egg as trinkets), and haven't even needed to potion.

Until we see some real multi-tank fights on 3.1, I don't think we've gotta worry about gemming/enchanting for mana. And even then, I'll probably just get a real helm with restore meta, go back to my MDF, and be just fine. Worst case I can mp5 flask and use a potion, or drop the gold on a Bell.

I haven't changed my playstyle, but I haven't encountered a 2-tank fight, much less a 3 tank fight, on PTR.

Kreoss · 03/12/09, 5:24 PM

Item - Druid T8 Restoration 2P Bonus (Class: Druid) -- Increases the healing done by your Swiftmend spell by 10%.
Item - Druid T8 Restoration 4P Bonus (Class: Druid) -- Your Rejuvenation spell also instantly heals your target for its periodic healing amount.

Source: MMO-Champion.

What you guys think? Both bonus are strong. First one is direct buff to an already strong spell although as we all know stationary.

The Second bonus is VERY strong in my honest opinion. It will change a bit how we will face raid healing, this along with the Talent Buffed Renew from Priests will probably be the strongest raid healing spells in the game. You will not only be able to heal slow pace damage or predict incoming damage but you can actually go into a more "Wack the Mole" raid healing with Rejuvenation.

I like it. The only thing that concerns me is (And I know it's still very far away...) in the future without this bonus this might create an "empty" feeling when healing with rejuvenation again.

Anyway it's a great addition in my opinion.

Kysse · 03/12/09, 5:29 PM

Is that to be read as "it will heal for one ticks worth of periodic healing," or "it will heal for the entire duration of periodic healing in one tick". The second one would just be ridiculous so I highly doubt it's that.
Either way, it's exactly what I have been waiting for. Priests get this on their Renew, but it's talented.
Like Kreoss was saying though, once we have completed Tier 8 content and are onto Tier 9, whatever that may be, it seems like Rejuv will have an "empty" feeling.
I really hope they include this as a talent instead.

Zuel · 03/12/09, 5:39 PM

Well, that's certainly strong and encouraging. A lot of the fights in Ulduar are looking like, well, every other fight we've seen where the raid takes a lot of damage on top of the tank, and resto shamans were creeping to the top of the most desirable healer again. This will give us at least some immediate raid healing on top of wild growth and nourish/glyphed HT spam.

It will all but force us to use 4 piece though, which isn't always a good thing for diversity in gear choices.

Krag · 03/12/09, 6:39 PM

Originally Posted by Kreoss

I like it. The only thing that concerns me is (And I know it's still very far away...) in the future without this bonus this might create an "empty" feeling when healing with rejuvenation again.

They could always add a new glyph to give the same effect once T9 comes around to make the option available. All in all the two bonuses looks very good.