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Old 03/17/09, 3:54 PM   #736
Fallenangel
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Chromaggus (EU)
The whole shaman-rush in SWP and the CH hate that it spawned was exaggerated. By using the tools of the time (read: regrowth) and not just LB rolling we were competitive, and that was before WG.
The real reason shamans were stacked was their then party-only buffs.

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Old 03/17/09, 5:09 PM   #737
goodolarchie
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
<tys>
Spirestone
This is purely speculative, but I'm excited for the t8 4pc in part due to the fact that the instant heal could be considered direct and proc things as such. It could also proc revitalize. This is a real long shot, but it could crit (think regrowth without the cast), proccing NG and speeding up subsequent ring-around-the-rejuv's. If this were the case, crit would finally be a valuable stat. Speculation aside, I hope it makes it to live as it is currently as it opens up a lot of potential, especially for a 23/0/48 type build that revolves around rejuv for raid healing.

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Old 03/17/09, 7:17 PM   #738
Norfair
Piston Honda
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Grim Batol (EU)
Originally Posted by hotalicious View Post
Well I don't want to derail this thread into a chain heal cry thread. So I'm not going to further provoke it.

On another note though

11/0/60 - is the way I'm going to go. I'm finding that the 3 point investment of NG isn't worth the return. Also hitting sub 1.0 Nourish casts is just bad.
Nature's Grace will increase your haste by 20%. In order to get sub-1.0 Nourish casts you will need like what, 700+ haste? Need to stack some serious haste to reach that number.


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Old 03/17/09, 11:37 PM   #739
Hotalicious
Glass Joe
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Executus
Originally Posted by Norfair View Post
Nature's Grace will increase your haste by 20%. In order to get sub-1.0 Nourish casts you will need like what, 700+ haste? Need to stack some serious haste to reach that number.
You get what I'm saying though!

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Old 03/18/09, 6:51 AM   #740
goodolarchie
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
<tys>
Spirestone
With the change to nourish, the new NG is as good to nourish+rg as the old .5s was to regrowth, or better. I realize it may not be as much haste, but you're basically guaranteed the 20% haste on the next two casts, which may or may not be nourishes. If they are, its good because the crit rate will be around every other nourish/rg critting (my parses with ~300 crit rating/17% tooltip unbuffed put me at 51% nourish crit with all raid buffs), meaning it will always be up for the emergency heal spam. With about 350 haste I still have a ways to go to hit the < 1.0 mark on nourish. Also, if there's any chance that the first tick from 4pc t8 will crit (empowered renew does), it will be entirely possible to drop a point or two in GOTEM without sacrificing 1.0X hots.

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Old 03/18/09, 8:17 AM   #741
Ezarg
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Uldum
Originally Posted by Norfair View Post
Nature's Grace will increase your haste by 20%. In order to get sub-1.0 Nourish casts you will need like what, 700+ haste? Need to stack some serious haste to reach that number.
I have some 540 haste + 3% from CF. Which means that with NG I'm usually with sub-1s Nourish and when the bloodlust comes, my regrowth becomes a sub-1s heal as well and my HT is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5 secs or better, since typically I do get WoA, while boomkin auras are a bit iffy. This is mostly using "avoid the crit gear" idea, nothing crazy going on. So, honestly I think that for everyone who geared and specced for haste, this change is not that big of a deal. I see this being more of a deal for a person with 200-ish haste, but at that point the 20% will still give you a lot of haste - more than anyone with 600ish haste is going to get out of it.

I think this change is more to clean up the mechanics in general as it seems that Blizzard wants to get away from "-0.x secs on cast time" mechanic and go towards "+y % haste" mechanic. I think that's a good change because it becomes clear how this is calculated and it doesn't require a bunch of testing and reverse engineering to figure out whether this "-0.x secs on cast time" effect comes before haste, somewhere in the middle of the haste buff stack or at the end of it.

The duration change is actually a buff in my opinion. I don't think that my NG ever last 15 secs without getting wasted (i.e. I cast something silly like MotW and get a NG proc off it and there is nothing else to do for another 1 min.) It was only on the next spellcast, now if you get lucky you could maintain that indefinitely. Considering my normal crit is 9-10% and I get 25% on top that with either Nourish or RG, the crit on them will be still ~35% (closer to 40% if you factor in some auras, and such). That means that if you actually do some RG/Nourish spam to keep the tank alive or such, you may have that 20% nearly 100% of the time anyway, and in any case will count towards more spells than now. The main difference is that it will be up mostly when you actually really, really need it, as opposed to when you get lucky while doing next to nothing, then sit picking your nose for next 12 seconds to dump some healing touch or regrowth on someone who probably doesn't really need it that fast anyway. And if I want more crit options, I'll pick up a crit trinket or two rather than anything else.

Finally, the new NG will scale better because the 20% will count towards GCD as well, whereas right now you get -.5 secs from cast but that doesn't have anything to do with GCD. If the instant tick of 4T8 rejuvenation bonus is something that can crit, it could change the picture of NG completely to become somewhat of a low tier alternative to the high tier GotEM. Another alternative is that the we forget about haste on gear altogether, and gear 100% for crit hoping that NG will fill the haste needs. 20% is more than enough to bring GCD down to 1s with 5/5 GotEM.

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Old 03/18/09, 11:57 AM   #742
Kalitse
Glass Joe
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Zul'Jin
Has anyone tested to make sure that the new NG is in fact a haste boost? The wording is a little dubious, "...,increasing your spell casting speed by 20%..."

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Old 03/18/09, 2:10 PM   #743
gnawed
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Burning Blade
With the added 25% crit bonus to Nourish in 3.1, would it ever be appropriate to spam Nourish on someone taking heavy, unexpected, raid damage when we don't think we'll have time to pop a RJ on them first? Or would it be smarter to risk it and throw out the RJ first? I realize landing the RJ first will increase the Nourish by 20-31%.

Maybe Nourish/RJ/Nourish/Nourish/Nourish would be the best choice.

I guess it comes down to whether or not the extra 1 - 1.3 sec for the RJ means life or death.

I'm going to feel VERY bad about Nourishing someone who has no hots on him - hopefully that internal reservation doesn't get anyone killed.

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Old 03/18/09, 3:06 PM   #744
Zoltair
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Eonar
Originally Posted by Kalitse View Post
Has anyone tested to make sure that the new NG is in fact a haste boost? The wording is a little dubious, "...,increasing your spell casting speed by 20%..."
YES!

It has also been confirmed that with WoA, CF, and Ret/Kin Aura, you will need ~400 or 12.2% Haste from gear to obtain a 1 sec cast and GCD for Nourish during NG uptime.

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Old 03/18/09, 3:52 PM   #745
CowTree
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Uldaman
Originally Posted by gnawed View Post
With the added 25% crit bonus to Nourish in 3.1, would it ever be appropriate to spam Nourish on someone taking heavy, unexpected, raid damage when we don't think we'll have time to pop a RJ on them first? Or would it be smarter to risk it and throw out the RJ first? I realize landing the RJ first will increase the Nourish by 20-31%.
If I understand your scenario correctly, Regrowth is your spell of choice. It's only .5 seconds longer, and gives you the HoT for SM or Nourish. Although I may not understand exactly what you're saying. Because if you just need a quick burst heal RJ to SM, but if you want to set up a "spam" on a raid target it would seem RG comes first.

Last edited by CowTree : 03/18/09 at 3:59 PM.

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Old 03/18/09, 4:13 PM   #746
goodolarchie
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
<tys>
Spirestone
Originally Posted by gnawed View Post
With the added 25% crit bonus to Nourish in 3.1, would it ever be appropriate to spam Nourish on someone taking heavy, unexpected, raid damage when we don't think we'll have time to pop a RJ on them first? Or would it be smarter to risk it and throw out the RJ first? I realize landing the RJ first will increase the Nourish by 20-31%.

Maybe Nourish/RJ/Nourish/Nourish/Nourish would be the best choice.

I guess it comes down to whether or not the extra 1 - 1.3 sec for the RJ means life or death.

I'm going to feel VERY bad about Nourishing someone who has no hots on him - hopefully that internal reservation doesn't get anyone killed.
Well, that all depends on your reaction time. I use debuff icons on grid and I would say my reaction time to spikey damage is supurb, between .5-1s with latancy, meaning I can get a rejuv off before the subsequent nourish-spam. This tactic works well IMO. I think there is a good chance with the 4pc t8 and rejuv glyph that using rejuv>swiftmend/nourish>nourish etc. will be just as viable because you're shaving off about .8s from the initial regrowth cast. In a 10 man situation, where I think we excel the most, it's still very viable mana-wise to roll anticipatory rejuv's on the ranged to set up your nourishes/swiftmends, and save WG for melee since they're always bunched up. Nourish isn't flash heal and will heal for a meager amount without at least 1 hot to back it up. If you're looking to use a spell for this purpose, get the glyphed HT.

The way I look at our emergency healing for things like Slag Pot, Napalm etc. is that it has to be set up correctly, meaning either rejuv/regrowth and a few nourishes. Not doing so will spend way too much mana that we could afford in the past, but not now. The recipient should be sitting at over 75% when the damage stops and the hot portion (or some other ambient heal) tops them off. I'm willing to bet that 4pc Rejuv + Nourish will be enough, with the added SP/crit we'll have from Ulduar gear.

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Old 03/19/09, 9:14 AM   #747
jula
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Tranquility - Spell - World of Warcraft
I basically never use it myself but maybe I should.
When do you use it and why? Anyone has a fight in mind in which they find it best to use ?

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Old 03/19/09, 9:39 AM   #748
Dioneirra
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Khaz'goroth (EU)
Originally Posted by jula View Post
Tranquility - Spell - World of Warcraft
I basically never use it myself but maybe I should.
When do you use it and why? Anyone has a fight in mind in which they find it best to use ?
The spell is (because of the design, hefty CD and group restriction) indeed not very usable. Situations where i use it are scare and very specific (given that i am in the MT group, and have Imp Tranq skilled):


Accidental or planed pulls of more than 3 trashgroups at once. If i use it at the beginning, the frontload damage on the tanks can be countered quite effectivly, so other healers and the tanks itself can sort things out without mobs running wild due to healing aggro.

Timed severe damage like Decimate on Gluth. Only usable if i stand amongst my group members.

Soft Enrage situations where a regular damage type (like a DoT, or an damage aura) gets boosted instead of a melee or single target attack, and i can provide another few seconds of one group standing.

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Old 03/19/09, 9:44 AM   #749
Kirenray
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Lightning's Blade
Originally Posted by jula View Post
Tranquility - Spell - World of Warcraft
I basically never use it myself but maybe I should.
When do you use it and why? Anyone has a fight in mind in which they find it best to use ?
Loatheb is another useful one.

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Old 03/19/09, 10:07 AM   #750
Noressa
Soda Popinski
 
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Noressa
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
The infamous "Hey, guys we pulled this trash pack and have adds, and oh look a shade" But it's pretty limited in terms of usefulness. I use it for Loken to let people stand in for one of his blasts... It's good enough that I have it bound on my main healing bar, but it's very, very rarely on cooldown.

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