That might be the behavior with auto self cast enabled, I don't know. But normally if I cast a spell on a boss I just get the "hand" cursor asking me to pick a target. However, if I cast WG on the boss, it hits people all around the boss, pretty far away. For example on Thaddius you can WG him after chain lightning and it will hit people on either side of him; including those farther than 15 yards from the tank.

Although if you modified the macro mentioned, the /cast portion would come up with the "hand" since your target is invalid, and then the target last target action would presumably choose the spell's target. So in that case it would probably hit the tank.

Right, for most spells it simply asks you to pick a different target (or casts it on yourself if you have Auto self cast enabled, which I do), but Wild Growth works as a special case. With the macro provided I can be raid healing the ranged, cast this spell on a mage standing right next to me 30+ yards away from the boss, and still have Wild Growth hit the Tanks and Melee, (who are more than 15 yards away from the mage) and not have it hit the entire clump of casters standing near me.

Seriously, you think i'd post a macro without testing to make sure it worked as intented first? Come on.

As far as it switching to the tank, no. I have auto self cast enabled. If I'm targeting an enemy with any spell other than Wild Growth it casts on me, and not on target of target (in this case the tank). You need different macro (which I used to use wayyy back for certain fights in Kara) to have it cast on whomever the boss was targeting. Your proposed test using any other spell would simply not work, as I am fairly certain this behaivor is specific to Wild Growth (or perhaps a different AoE Heal)

Wow, this seems clumsy, I just had to respond - since I've redone all my macro's recently for pvp-purposes.

First of all: WG will fire off any target, hostile or friendly.
Your macro should work fine, but what if you actually wanted to WG the mage to spread the love in the caster-group? Do you use another button for the "normal" WG, since you got no modifiers?
That seems very, very clumsy. So, since I've attacked your WGing and been an asshole, I am willing to share with you the wonders of mouseoverhealing + bosstargeting.

First of all, you should make macro's for all your healingspells to improve reactiontime. These macro's are pretty straightforward:

#showtooltip Rejuvenation;
/cast [target=mouseover,nodead] Rejuvenation; Rejuvenation;

With self-cast activated this will cast rejuv on your mouseovered target as long as it's alive, regardless of your actual target. If it happens to be an enemy, it will cast it on yourself. If no mouseovertarget exists, it acts like the normal rejuvenation would - i.e. cast on actual target.
Do this for all your spells, and the need to actually have a friendly player targeted disappears.

Which brings me to Wild Growth. I use the same technique you do, I blow 99% of my WGs on the boss. I will hit the 6 melee that needs it the most, which is usually win (not interested in discussing this now).
I always have the boss targeted. Always. So the mouseover-WG is just an inch away from the grid. WG, however, as well all know - is bugged at the moment, so that particular macro needs som extra love.

#showtooltip Wild Growth;
/cleartarget
/cast [target=mouseover,exists] Wild Growth; Wild Growth;
/targetlasttarget

This takes care of it bugging out, and the only annoyance you will have with this macro is that it will target your last target regardless if you actually got a target. Meaning: You clear trash, some mobs die, maybe you loot something, clear your target - tank pulls, you WG some random melee, and it targets the trashmob you just looted. The dead one.
On bosses this obviously isn't an issue.

This will WG mouseover-target, friend or foe, or fallback on the basic functions of the spell if no mouseovertarget exists.

I wasn't planning on writing all this, this probably isn't even the correct thread, but since I'm rolling - I want to share with you what I just did on my own druid, dramatically decreasing my need for binded actionbuttons, and improving my versatility in both PvE and PvP.

So, I dug up all the info on macro's that are relevant for my cause, and startet implementing my dual-function buttons. That is - mouseover-macro's that use friendly spells on allies vs harmful spells on enemies, and some of them even have different function in and out of combat.

I'll start with my Rejuvenation-button. It casts rejuv on my mouseovertarget if it's friendly, faerie fire on enemy mouseover-target, and falls back on regular rejuv in case of no mouseovertarget.

#showtooltip [target=mouseover,harm] Faerie Fire; Rejuvenation.
/cast [target=mouseover,harm,nodead] Faerie Fire; [target=mouseover,help,nodead] Rejuvenation; Rejuvenation;

The first line makes the tooltip swap instantly to Faerie fire if I moseover an enemy, which is pretty neat.
I've done this with wg/moonfire(use a separate macro for my pve-spec), Regrowth/roots, Nourish/wrath and HT/wrath (use glyphed HT in pvp), Cyclone/Abolish poison, etc. It's lovely seeing most of my actionbar getting all offensive when I hover my Gladius in the heat of battle. Makes me all ... 300-battlereadyish.

Resurrection is a bitch, and I hate to spend a binded button on Revive. Solution? Make lifebloom ress dead people out of combat, but still stack it if said mouseover is alive (tank prepull) oh, and it also starfire on enemies:

#showtooltip [nocombat,target=mouseover,help,dead] Revive;[target=mouseover,harm,nodead]Starfire; Lifebloom;
/cast [nocombat,target=mouseover,help,dead] Revive; [target=mouseover,harm,nodead]Starfire;[target=mouseover,help,nodead] Lifebloom; Lifebloom;

And, just to finish off, I saved the best for last, my swiftmend-macro.

Out of combat, it shows Rebirth - so I can keep track of it's cooldown out of combat. Once in combat, the tooltip swaps to Swiftmend. If in combat, I mouseover a dead ally, it will show Rebirth again. It will, however, not use rebirth out of combat - since the tooltip and actual function can be different.

The functionality: Out of combat it's swiftmend if I'm mouseovering a friend, if not - it's actually fishing (Great for those dailies! Who doesn't want the fishingbutton on the most accessible hotkey you have?). In combat, it's swiftmend on mouseover friendly target, but if said mouseover-target is dead - it will NS Rebirth him. This makes for some awesome quick battleresses. If NS is on cooldown, it will rebirth.

#showtooltip [nocombat] Rebirth;[target=mouseover,help,dead] Rebirth; Swiftmend;
/cast [target=mouseover,help,dead] Nature's Swiftness
/cast [target=mouseover,help,dead] Rebirth; [target=mouseover,help,exists] Swiftmend; [nocombat]Fishing; Swiftmend;

This will pop NS for you if you try to swiftmend a dead target out of combat though, because there is not enough room in the macro to prevent that + allow for fishing. If you don't want fishing, and don't want NS to bug, simply do:

#showtooltip [nocombat] Rebirth;[target=mouseover,help,dead] Rebirth; Swiftmend;
/cast [combat,target=mouseover,help,dead] Nature's Swiftness
/cast [target=mouseover,help,dead] Rebirth; [target=mouseover,help,exists] Swiftmend; Swiftmend;

If this gave you anything, lovely! If not, just move on. Just got back from work, servers down, nothing else to do. :d

I guess I can answer your question while I'm at it:

#showtooltip Wild Growth;
/cast [modifier:alt,target=targettarget,harm,nodead] Wild Growth; Wild Growth;

This will do what you asked for if you press the alt button, i.e. cast it on your targets target(if it's an enemy). If you dont press the alt-button, it will act like the WG from your spellbook. And if your targets target is another raidmember, it will fallback to default also.

I highly recommend you reading the post above and think about it for a while.
Physical target + healing does not match! That mouseclick-latency will catch up with you one day.

For phase 2 Mimiron (normal), my guild generally has a healer assigned for each group. That healer's entire responsibility is keeping the group alive going into phase 3. I've been a holy priest since Vanilla, so I've definitely gotten used to spamming POH and not thinking much of it, but now as a druid, I'm having problems with it.

I've attempted to get a Rej, 3xLB, WG on my group, but it feels like I still fall behind, and as soon as someone in my group dips close, I'm forced to Regrowth and I just fell behind on everyone else in the group.

Our other tree(s) are able to effectively roll HOTs through this section, and their advice to me was essentially "LB more." They're both at around 2300 SP for healing compared to my ~2000 SP. I'm hopeful that the gap in gear isn't insurmountable, because I already know I need to stay on top of it more.

It seems like most of you are spread hots around more of the raid, moreso than just focusing on a 5 man group, do you think I should push for that set up? Switching mains from my T7 BiS Holy Priest has already forced us to rethink a few strategies, so it's not unheard of. But with the other trees making it work, I want to at least give it a try.

This seems to me like a very poor way of healing Mim2. If you group up very close around the circle you can simply let your healers respective smart healing do it's thing. I've found Druids are best used to mitigate the constant aoe dmg using Rejuv with WG and SM cast off cooldown.

LB still tends to be a lot of overheal during this phase with all the chain heals and POMs going around...not to mention mana intensive.

We have little trouble aoe healing through this entire phase. Is this how other guilds are doing this?

My guild uses the exact same strategy, even though, like Mazzarus, I do not think it is very good (but I am not the one who decides... ). It does not play well with the strength of the different healers.

Anyway, here are my thoughts coming from my experience with this strategy: RJ and WG are arguably the most efficient spells for this phase. And if you want to keep RJ on your group at all times (which you certainly should), there is just not enough GCD left to keep LB stacks running. In practice, trying to use LB will result in most people having only 1 stack, or only 1/2 people having high stacks, which is not efficient. So I rather use RG which is the next best spell in terms of HPCT (way higher than 1 stack of LB, even higher than 2 stacks if I remember correctly), especially with heroism up. So I start with RJ, then RG on everyone in my group (starting with people that are low of course), WG whenever it is up, and Swiftmend if necessary. When all hots are up, I have the time to toss a few nourish to save low people, then I have to start refreshing RJs again. I only use LB when I have to move to avoid the laser, and only if RJs are already running on the whole group obviously. This strategy seemed to be effective for me, but again I am also above 2300SP, so I dont know if this going to be enough with lower gear.

Another solution you might wanna try is to pair up with another tree in your raid (as there seems to be several) so that both of you keep RJ on both groups at all times. You will obviously have some time left to use WG as much as possible, and RG/Swift/Nourish when someone in your group dips low. IMO, this uses the druid's strengths in a better way than having everyone only worry about his/her own group, and you will be less penalized for having lower gear.

HowTo Mimiron phase 2 as a Resto Druid:

1. WG the melee or a group of ranged
2. Roll Rejuvs when WG is on cd
3. Swiftmend yourself/others to mitigate damage from Rapid Burst when necessary
4. Rinse + Repeat

DK's benefit fairly well from revitalize depending on their spec. My main is a Frost DK and looking back at the total of all defeated bosses over 2 full raiding cycles I found that with 1 Resto Druid I was getting on average 1 PPM of revitalize which is a solid 75-100 dps boost for me, and probably 50-100 dps upgrades for any spec.

Any good DK should not be capping out on thier runic power unless prepping to pop Gargoyle or DRW so there's no issue of overflow. I would imagine if our druid were using the Wild Growth macro to target the boss and melee more often it would be way way more powerful but it doesn't appear he does as I'm catching ~1-2 rejuv or wild growths total per minute.

So yes it is something that is very useful to DK's especially in high aoe fights and even more powerful with multiple druids in the raid, and very useful to DK tanks as well as runic power is their main source of threat. I spec into Revitalize on my druid for this very reason.

In my point of view 50-100 DPS increase for part of raid's DPS doesn't justify waste of 3 talent points.
3/3 Celestial Focus gives me solid and reliable 3% healing boost. If Revitalize would give reliable 2-3% DPS increase for whole raid, it could be considered as viable points investment, but in its current state it's just a waste of points.

I'm referring to this build:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Can someone do the math and for just rejuv's show me the healing difference that haste makes if a druid were to have no haste vs. having the haste soft-cap. This will allow me to judge further on how much haste i want my character to have.(with the talent Gift of the Earthmother).

You are wrong. Main point of stacking haste is getting 1 sec GCD, which is especially good with 4pcs T8 set bonus (while decreased cast speed of non-instant spells is beneficial too, of course). Depending on raid composition you will need from 253 to 541 haste rating to soft cap (assuming 5/5 GotE and 3/3 CF). Speccing out of Celestial Focus will add 98 haste rating to cap.
Unless you have 518+ haste rating from gear I don't recommend avoiding Celestial Focus.

Actually, with full raid haste buffs, (imp ret/moonkin aura, and a WoA totem) and 5/5 GotEM, you need far less than 518 haste to get a 1 second GCD without 3/3 CF

Resto4Life» Blog Archive » Gift of the Nerfmother

is a good website to calculate the haste you need.

It's somewhere around 359 haste rating according to those calculations to get a 1 second GCD

Do you think that most serious raiding guilds aren't going to have a Wrath of Air Totem, and either a moonkin or ret paladin in the raid? 359 haste rating without celestial focus puts you at the "soft cap" for haste (HoTs being at 1.0s) and any further haste is only useful for hard casts.

Restoration Itemization

Definitely, any half competent 25m raid will have a ret pali/moonkin and a wrath of air totem, the rest just relies on whether your gear can provide the haste needed to hit the soft cap without Celestial focus.

For example right now, I'm at 366 haste and I'm very comfortable there, I'm not even using upgrades until I can keep a balance of the right amount of haste to hit hat soft cap with 0/3 CF

I'd suggest getting as many points in CF as you would need to get that 1 second GCD and with 3/3 its a low soft cap (253 haste) with naxx level gear

"Serious raiding guild" is obscure term. In fact, chances are in 10m raids you won't have Shaman and Retadin/Moonkin at the same time. Putting that aside, 3% more HPS for non-instant spells is not bad at all.

4T8 does not crit.

Thx. Gotta be honest, my gut tells me this set bonus is a little OP. However, it might just be the fact that it will make rejuv jump from a spell used for 30-40% of heals, up to 50-60%, or even more. I know a 4pc should help us climb the heal charts, but this feels like "easy mode" healing in many cases.

I'm probably way off base here, but it's bothered me that they nerfed the hell out of Ulduar already, and unnecessarily in many cases (IMHO).... While I'm not an idiot and will welcome it with open arms, the 4T8 to me, just seems like another way to dummy things down.

Am I completely wrong? =/ Help me see the light! =)-


- V -

It's not OP, it's just very good. ;)

From personal experience and based on what others say it accounts for 2-10% extra healing depending on the fight. I would say an average of 3-4%.

Fights like Hodir and Mim it is a huge boost.

From my post the 50-100 dps upgrade was what I would consider the bare minimum as I only caught on average 1 wild growth or rejuv per minute of every defeated boss over a 2 weeks spam. We run very caster heavy as well, with only the minimum 6-7 melee eash week which would lead to catching less wild growths, but I can't fathom anybody else getting less procs than that even by accident with a resto druid in the raid. I would imagine for most people they're procs would be 1.5 - 2x that number on average, multiplied by multiple druids in the raid. So imo, considering how easy it is to get to the soft haste cap, its more than worth it to put points here unless you really just can't get to 360 haste rating through gear and are dead set on doing so.

3% haste does not equate to a 3% boost to your overall healing, at least not directly. Its more correct to call it a max 3% boost to your healing, but in all actuality its more likely to inflate your numbers closer to 1% due mostly to the fact that you are either not chain casting 100% of the time, or your human reaction time isn't going to take full advantage to that 3%. Can it be as high as 3% on paper, probably. Is it a 3% boost in a real life situation? Probably not.

Also, since you have taken to the subject of 10 mans. While haste is still valuable, in a 10 man raid you are more limited by how many people you can keep hots rolling on. In a 25 man situation, it isn't uncommon for me to rolling Rejuvs on 15-16 raid members during a high AoE damage fight. If if soft capped my haste I could bring that number much closer to 18. Because I lack haste I am limiting myself from 3 rejuvs. Obviously the GCD (and haste) is my limiting factor). In a 10 man I can only roll Rejuv on 10 targets at a time. My limiting factor in this case is not my own GCD, but rather the amount of targets that I can be healing. Does Haste allow me more time to cast other spells, yes. Is it still a better throughput stat than crit? Also yes. Is 3% haste better than a Threat Generation/Melee DPS/Mana Regen stat for the entire raid, where raid buffs (10 man) are generally lacking? Thats a call for you to make.