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03/31/09, 2:52 PM
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#811
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Cleverness
Apologies if this question has been asked already, but is there a problem with Druid healing on 10man Sarth 3D and Phase 2 on 25man Malygos for the 6 minute achievement? This is assuming we have a Holy Paladin healing the MT on Sarth. I'm mostly asking because the guild I'm in is working on these achievements, and on both occasions I've been told that Druid healing isn't that great for the burst damage the raid is taking on these specific encounters. While I don't necessarily agree, I've only been raiding in WoTLK for alittle over a month, which isn't alot compared to the amount of time I raided in TBC, so I'm just asking if there really is a issue with Druids trying to raid/drake heal on these specific encounters, or if its dependent on group setup, or if maybe the info I'm being told isn't accurate. Thanks in advance.
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Druids are probably versatile healers and there is no fight that comes to mind that I would consider a druid being a weaker healer on. The two mentioned here are ones where we particularly shine, in fact. Druids are very effective right now, probably the most effective they've been in the history of wow.
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03/31/09, 3:15 PM
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#812
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Soda Popinski
Noressa
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account
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Loathab comes to mind in terms of being effective. Outside of that I agree with you though.
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03/31/09, 8:56 PM
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#813
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Al'Akir (EU)
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Originally Posted by Debeljko
Hello guys...
Since the Ulduar (3.1.) is going to release very soon and a lot of changes are going to happen i would like to ask you what are you planing to do? I mean, due the fact that Lifebloom will be "nerfed", spirit will be worthless (more or less) etc... Do you have any idea about some kind of new specc, rotation?
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Go crazy with Rejuvenation. It's the way I heal even at this moment. The way I see druids is that we are "assist" healers. Let the shamans and priests do the direct raidhealing while you focus on softening the blow by prehotting as many people as possible. Right now, I just Lb 1/2 tanks and spend the rest of my time throwing Rejuvs across the raid. This keeps a nice steady HPS up on the tanks and makes the life of other raidhealers who are more inclined toward direct healing easier. With the new trinket from Ulduar, Rejuvenation will cost almost 300 mana... talk about efficiency.
The biggest change will come with the Regrowth/Nourish nerfs, With this change, the only time to use Regrowth will be on tanks, and I still haven't decided if I want 20% extra healing on Nourish or a 20% stronger HoT on Regrowth.
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04/01/09, 10:59 PM
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#814
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Dragonblight (EU)
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Originally Posted by Noressa
Loathab comes to mind in terms of being effective. Outside of that I agree with you though.
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I hope you mean more effective, but I don't see how we could be more effective than a priest on this fight. If we lifebloom 3 targets to bloom within the 3sec period, then throw up a rejuv on a few targets until we're about 2-3 seconds away from the debuff going off, then you throw up a WG and then spam two regrowths to land within the 3 seconds and you can swiftmend any one of the people you have just hotted with RJ, you get about 7 seconds to relax (or you can throw up more rejuvs in this time, as they last 18sec and the debuff lasts 17) then you rinse and repeat. Paladins/Shamans can't get close to that many heals in 3 seconds.
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04/01/09, 11:48 PM
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#815
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Glass Joe
Tauren Druid
Mal'Ganis (EU)
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I'm really wondering how this whole lifebloom 3.1 thing turns out in PvE. I dont see any way how you could use the big 3-stack endheal (heals with actual content gear for 10k+). I mean 10k is a lot but you cant control when it blooms, the chance of it being overheal is very high. So thats for blooming.
Rolling it on 3 tanks or something like you would do it atm on live while throwing reju in between is just a no-go in any longer encounter like other ones confirmed earlier. It draines your mana like nothing.
It kinda reminds me of my paladin buddy that complains all the time about sacred shield only being able to be up on one target at the time. So i think blizz is doing something very similar to lifebloom.
So the only place i see lifebloom now in pve after 3.1 goes live is on the primary tank that is getting the hard hits. And im not even sure yet if i keep it rolling or if i would let it bloom almost every time.
Personally I like the change coz i wasnt much of a friend of rolling bloom on a dozen of people anyway, that was also the main reason why i played Shaman in BC. I very much liked the play style in Classic with good old Rank4 HT, and thats exactly how it feels with nourish now. Its a very intuitive playstyle, where you almost always can react very fast on anything that would happen to those green bars all over your screen 
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04/02/09, 7:52 PM
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#816
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Glass Joe
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I would argue that sure, most of the time the bloom is going to be worthless, but it *can* be a viable heal. If you notice at the typical refresh point that 'hey, the tank could use a nifty little burst right now!', you now aren't penalized for not refreshing. I'd argue that not much will change to that extent.
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04/02/09, 8:51 PM
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#817
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Soda Popinski
Noressa
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by grimtage
I hope you mean more effective, but I don't see how we could be more effective than a priest on this fight. If we lifebloom 3 targets to bloom within the 3sec period, then throw up a rejuv on a few targets until we're about 2-3 seconds away from the debuff going off, then you throw up a WG and then spam two regrowths to land within the 3 seconds and you can swiftmend any one of the people you have just hotted with RJ, you get about 7 seconds to relax (or you can throw up more rejuvs in this time, as they last 18sec and the debuff lasts 17) then you rinse and repeat. Paladins/Shamans can't get close to that many heals in 3 seconds.
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It's more to the point that it's easier from my experience to let shaman and priests heal the damage and help out by tossing wrath spam out. That's more a statement of the difficulty of Naxx though more then anything.
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04/02/09, 10:27 PM
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#818
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Noressa
It's more to the point that it's easier from my experience to let shaman and priests heal the damage and help out by tossing wrath spam out. That's more a statement of the difficulty of Naxx though more then anything.
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If you are using wrath to heal, you have serious issues
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04/03/09, 12:13 AM
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#819
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Paladin
Darkspear (EU)
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Originally Posted by Allinone
If you are using wrath to heal, you have serious issues
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This is where I lolled.
But seriously, bloom being efficient is more about luck than skill or mechanics in pve. On Loatheb, those three targets getting the bloom need to be those nobody else gets to heal first (CoH, CH, HL glyph), which is pure luck. Personally, I usually only do only alt runs in Naxx on my druid so the overall dps is, ahem, lowish, so I usually go moonstuff (ofc without forgetting to heal).
Only place (in the current content) where I could use the big end heal is Gluth. But because Decimate isn't on set timer but rather on a cooldown, timing lifebloom to bloom at the exactly right moment is pure luck. Besides, paladins already get around 10k heals to both tanks when Decimate hits so I'll just go throw WG and stuff in the raid.
I like druid healing the way it is now, but looks like my poor druid is gonna spend most of her time farming herbs for my other chars' flasks.
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04/03/09, 9:19 AM
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#820
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Soda Popinski
Noressa
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by Allinone
If you are using wrath to heal, you have serious issues
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Hey, it's a green spell on my bar, why wouldn't I use it?! I meant more helping the raid then helping heal in that instance, but c'est la vie..
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04/03/09, 12:59 PM
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#821
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Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Laughing Skull
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Originally Posted by Noressa
Hey, it's a green spell on my bar, why wouldn't I use it?! I meant more helping the raid then helping heal in that instance, but c'est la vie..
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A resto shaman can do more dps than you can with wrath, and you're a more effective healer on Loatheb. Yes, wrath spam is 'easier' but certainly not the best way to go about it.
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04/03/09, 1:03 PM
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#822
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Moonglade (EU)
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On the gluth example however you don´t really need a controlled huge heal since there is only one person who will be attacked the first secconds after decimate and we´re not talking anywhere near patch-damage. I usually toss a swiftmend and then let the other HoTs continue to roll. As for the raid I quite honestly tend to go wild growth and hurricane rather than exessive rejuv spam. Sure I could roll lots of tuff on the raid but its not an emergency and I have better AoE dps than the other healers who can easily get people topped up again.
In preparation to face the lifebloom change I have started practicing to get a good flow on cycles where I stack the LBs up to three, (sometimes fast sometimes slow, depends a bit on the encounter and on how much mana I have to play with) and then try timing my renewal of regrowth to a couple of secconds after lifeblooms roll off. My reasoning here being that if I always plan to let every LB I cast fall off Im not struck by the increased cost at all and if I time regowth be renewed a short period after LB falls of I first get the LB bloom to cover the lack of ticks and get the initial regrowth heal to cover for the period where LB isnt ticking to full effect. So far I have experienced that this doesn´t make people tanking something take to spikey damage and when they change the bloom effect to stack the only change I will notice is a larger bloom than I have been keeping people alive with so far. Long story short Im not really worried at all about the patch changes. Not that I have tried any ulduar healing on the PTR but since Im more or less allready playing by the changed rules and not having any major troubles I dont worry about the patch at all. (This also meaning that I conciously try to always cast actively denying myself 5 seccond ticks and checking so my innervate is giving me more mana back than I need to simulate not relying on more regen than I will have in 3.1, I actually think Im oversimulating a bit so I should really be expecting some more mana to play with after the patch.)
Last edited by Ploppy : 04/04/09 at 7:14 AM.
Reason: typo
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04/05/09, 1:38 AM
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#823
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Noressa
Hey, it's a green spell on my bar, why wouldn't I use it?! I meant more helping the raid then helping heal in that instance, but c'est la vie..
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Sorry, I was just picking on your wording on it. No actual offense meant to you.
But in all actuality, its my opinion that if you are a healer, and you feel the best use of your time is actually casting a damaging spell, then
A: Your guild is bringing to many healers to raids
B: Your Raid DPS is seriously lacking
Both of which problems could be solved by switching a healer out for a real DPS, instead of lolrestodps.
There are only a few times in my mind where I can legitimately say that the best use of a healers time was to DPS. RoS in Black Temple comes to mind (Due to the Debuff that blocked all healing), and I have personally assigned Healers to start DPSing on Thaddius when we were just entering into Naxx, just to avoid any close calls. Dual Specs will make this a moot point, but personally I view the goal of these forums is to make you a better healer and not a better combination class. I do not feel that talking about DPSing as Restoration stratagies are the best use of time on this forum. Depending on your group composition, dropping out of ToL can not only gimp your healing, but the healing of your other healers as well. Only Resto Druids and Prot Paladins provide the 6% healing increase for the raid, if your raid doesnt have any of these beside yourself, any time spent to DPS (outside of ToL) deprives the raid of those buffs. Granted, this is a situation that will likely only happen in 10 mans, but it is something to be aware of.
Last edited by Allinone : 04/05/09 at 1:45 AM.
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04/05/09, 5:37 AM
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#824
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Bleeding Hollow
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Gluth: After Decimate, I Hurricane (I'm usually healing kiters).
Thaddius: When the stacks come up I DPS. When they drop I spam HoTs.
Loatheb: I DPS and WG (whenever the healing de-buff drops) up until the first Doom after which I full out heal.
Heigan: Most of the fight I am DPS-ing though I usually pause between disease casts and cleanses.
Noth: I stop DPS to decurse and I heal during the second phase.
I am generally always WG-ing on CD even while I DPS. Obviously, I still watch bars (both health and my own mana) and react accordingly.
Four healers feels excessive for these encounters, but it's hardly efficient or worthwhile to swap out for a DPS. I do generally agree that this thread should be specifically about healing. I certainly don't want the next 3 pages of this thread to be a "good" times to DPS discussion; still, there are instances where your time can be spent in better ways than over-healing. Also, for most encounters I'll toss up Faerie Fire if something happens to the feral/balance druid(s) and I have the time. Just because you're there to heal doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing what is most beneficial to the raid (as long as you're doing it responsibly).
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04/05/09, 8:33 AM
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#825
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Moonglade (EU)
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Aye, resto dps rotations would really be overkill theorycrafting. The ability to judge how much of your mana is needed for a fight and knowing exactly how much healing people will need is however a vital healing skill wich leads to the conclusion that sometimes all healing power available isn´t needed and thus to the followup conclusion that a good tree does some of that pitifull DPS at times despite not being vital for the kill in any way.
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