In 10 mans, GCD becomes a consideration again if there is enough damage to not only warrant Rejuv + WG on cooldown, but also lifebloom on the raid as well.

I used to spec into 3/3 CF, but as we have gotten further into Uldar I can't seem to get away from haste. Of course, I bought the haste crafted gear which does not help, but it is such nice gear. I sit at 463 now and have upgrades, which I don't want to put on that would take me higher. I do like to run at about the 468, our rets and moonkins seem to die alot. I wouldn't say that Revitalize is a great talent, but it seems that 3/3 CF isn't needed and Revitalize is a good place to spend those points. We run 2 restos and Revitalize seems to return a pretty good amount between the 2 of us.

In 10 mans as someone explained above, haste is not in dire need. We have just really started doing 10 man hard modes got Decon and 2 tower FL today and mana is the main concern not gcd or casting times.

It wasnt my intention to say that it didnt warrent consideration. More cast per minute (as well as faster landing direct heals) are a good thing in terms of the amount of healing you can provide. I would suggest however that a 10 man groups has good odds of having either a Wrath of Air Totem or a Balance Druid, and it would be the exception to the rule if a 25 man was without either of those. As a larger population of Resto Druids descend into Ulduar, haste will be an easier stat to obtain. The 365 soft cap wont require any special gearing. My intention was to point out that it did warrent a discussion as to which might be a better build in general.

So, due the specific group you run with, you might find 3/3 CF helpful to reach the 1s GCD. Most druids, however, will only find the 3% haste as a benefit to their direct heals (since they will already be softcapped). Depending on your playstyle and roel that is significantly smaller increase than 3%. On one encounter a druid may be called on to chain cast Nourish on a tank, where on others they may roll Rejuvenations and Wild Growth, not cast any direct heals at all. In either case, even under the best possible conditions there is hardly more than 50% of your healing is done by direct healing spells.

I just think softcapping is easy enough that 3/3 CF isnt warrented in an end game build.

Revitalize is great since they increased the proc rate from wild growth.

Here's a parse from XT hard mode. The one doing the parse disconnected at 7:30 or so in, so you can increase the numbers by anywhere from 20-33% for the full kill.

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

That's a solid amount of healer mana restored on a fight that's absolutely brutal on healer mana. The rage, energy, and runic power is a nice little boost but I don't think that's the main draw of the talent.

We may run it with two resto druids next week, which could mean 10,000 mana restored on a healer or more.

There is no Natures Swiftness in this macro. Did you remove that function at some point because it doesn't work, or did you typo the macro?

I always use innervate on myself and consider it a normal part of every fight once I get low on mana. For those of you who use innervate on other players, why do you do so? I'm just looking for some viewpoints on how the extra mana would be better for another character rather than a resto druid.

My own experience is as follows. I heal the raid and keep hots on the tanks. I don't refresh 3 stack lifeblooms or anything, but I do make fairly liberal use of my mana; plenty of pre-hotting and such. I find my mana getting low pre-innervate anywhere from 45% to 10% left in fights. After Innervate I always have enough mana to get to the end of the fight (though occasionally I dip below 2-3k left at the end). I never use mana pots unless something goes very wrong. Most of my experience is in 10 man hard modes (mostly a 10 man guild).

I find innervate to be pointless to put on myself, due to never running into any sort of mana issue. So far through full Ulduar normal modes I've yet to be strained on any sort of mana. The only fight recently I've noticed myself losing a decent chunk of mana is Hard mode Iron Council, with the massive raid damage, I usually end up with about 7-8k mana left of a 24-25k mana pool by the time the 2nd Dwarf is almost dead, and I figure I'll have to innervate myself or rely on glyph of innervate to give me a comfortable enough mana pool to finish the fight.

During most fights I'm usually sitting at somewhere around 85-100% mana chain casting WG/Rejuv and a Regrowth/Rejuv/Slow Stack LB on tanks if I feel like its required.

I've ended up innervating Paladins/Mages/Shamans more since 3.2 (in that order, most to least)

Edit: You asked about 10m hard mode raiding - I tank for my 10m hard mode uld, and raid 25m as resto, So I couldn't tell you that much from my experiences in 10m ulduar healing. But our group is ran with 1 of each class (most raid buffs, replenishment/manaspring/kings etc etc) I would likely be using innervate more on someone else, perhaps a mage or the other healer (more likely). I'm glyphed for innervate so it would benefit the other healer and me more if i were to innervate him in most situations. (Me getting about a mana pot worth of innervate + his ~16k)

I wasn't asking for 10m hard mode, I was relating my experience there since I have no experience in 25m hard modes. Either way, thanks for your experience.

Oh, well from what I've noticed with my itemization all I could say is I've rarely used innervate on myself in any situation, and I find myself asking over vent if anyone wants it, which then it usually goes to the holy paladins. I've been curious myself how other druids do in their raids, up until 25m IC Hard mode I've yet to encounter a fight that I've gone even remotely low on mana. I typically end fights with 100% (Raid healing non stop) I don't have another druid in guild to compare myself to because I'm the only raiding resto druid though.

didn't find a mention about it anywhere and don't know where to put my "observation", but I noticed one thing on Vezax Hard - if you meleeing the boss in P1 and get omen of clarity proc, you can use Lifebloom and bloom it to regain ~300mana.
This leads to conclusion that every omen of clarity proc used with lifebloom means ~300 extra mana after bloom.
Watching OoC with "TellMeWhen" addon is pretty straightforward and basically when ppl see it popping up the icon you just push the lifebloom button on whatever random person in raid.

I'm sorry if it was already mentioned somewhere around

I was considering on trying that for vezax, since there isn't a downside to being in melee range of vezax as a healer I was thinking about doing that to proc clearcasts, just melee the boss when there isn't anything else to do, and use lifebloom to regain mana back.

Has anyone actually tried this for Hard Mode Vezax?

Yes. It works like a charm, however, after a while we (2 trees) rather did the "NEXT BIG HEAL IS MINE" and threw a regrowth on the tank on the next hit however.

Either way, it's far from gamebreaking, but at least it gives the fight a different feel.

Yeah, if too many people are in melee range he starts doing his abilities (shadow crash / life leech) on melee too. Dunno how many of us it took, but when all the healers went in to melee range we wipe pretty fast.

Both the range/melee mechanic and healers meleeing for clearcast have been discussed to death here General Vezax

He will do shadow crash and mark normally if at least 3 players are at range in 10 man, and at least 8 players are at range in 25 man. So there is definitely room for a couple healers to melee the boss.

If revitalize gave a reliable 2-3% dps increase for the whole raid per resto druid it would be very OP to the point you'd end up stacking resto druids for it on anything where dps was the main concern. To put that in perspective, swapping a shaman into sunwell to hero the melee group another time was more like a 1.2-1.5% raidwide dps boost in a 6 minute fight.

Also, 3% haste is nice, but it's less than a 3% boost to healing throughput outside of an optimal situation like mimiron p2 where there are inifinite targets to rejuv/WG with full effectiveness and nobody who needs a LB stack. Even if you are in a situation where you are able to translate 3% haste into 3% more spells cast, those 3% more spells will be more of the least effective heal you're using, not the most.

As people mentioned, it's also a very solid mana regen talent.
Given:
Every target hit by WG is a mana user
3 points/15% chance on tick
revitalize ticks for 4x what replenishment does
WG hits 6/10 as many people as replenishment does
WG lasts 7/10 as long as replenishment

Then casting WG returns about 25% as much mana as a replenishment would, and that's basically a situation where you're comparing it to adding the first replenish to a 25 man group. If you were to look at, say, a 10 man with 7 mana users and you cast WG every 7 seconds on them it comes out returning a bit over half as much mana as replenishment just on WG. That's before counting anything returned by rejuvs you cast during your other 6 seconds.

Hi, this is my first post, so go easy on me. Lots of things I want to weigh in on too, but I'll try to keep it as short as possible.

I can hit the soft cap for haste (with no ret pally available) just on a random assortment of naxx25/uld10 gear, that shouldn't be an issue for anyone. Lately though I have been seriously considering stacking haste. This is probably where I should point out that I don't heal like other trees. I sometimes go through a whole boss fight without casting rejuv. Unless I'm tank healing regrowth is still my go-to heal for a lot of situations, and of course I hug my wild growth cd. Nourish I consider a tank heal; for it to be more effective than regrowth it requires at least two hots up, which takes more time than just casting regrowth (my Nourish is glyphed but no set bonus). I also don't use swiftmend that much; if the target already has a hot up then a nourish plus the probability of a tick before they take damage again is more healing for only an extra quarter second of casting, and doesn't scrub my hot.

So lately I'm looking at my options for improvement; loading up on haste, possibly even regemming for it, to crank out faster RG/nourish looks interesting, but I'm worried about the sp/crit I'll lose in the process. Also, with enough haste I don't need gift of the earthmother anymore and can throw those points elsewhere. I have tried a more normal method of tree healing; my numbers come out about the same but I feel more like I'm padding the meters when I go hot-happy than when I'm using more direct heals. Unfortunately, I haven't found any good advice or numbers for people healing like I do, or some sort of happy medium. Any help or am I just crazy?

And on something from a few days ago: why would you set up wild growth to only hit one particular target? I can't imagine its a limitation of grid/click, but I run healbot so I wouldn't know for sure. I have wild growth bound to mouse button 5 so I can cast it on anybody in the raid with just a mouseover/click; its the only way I feel like I have any control over it and vital in many situations. KT ice blocks all the melee? No problem I WG one of them. The healer for ranged dies right before a tantrum? No worries they're in a nice little pack I WG one of them.

Its difficult because there is no defined "role" for a tree druid. Personally I think my "role" (or the role that I play) is lightening healing load as much as possible for the other non-HoT classes (priest/shaman/paladin). So i tend to lay down alot of hots, not so many nourishes, and when possible I drop ALOT of regrowths (with the help from my local neighborhood feral's innervate )

The reason for this is because when healing load becomes too great, the healers end up in an emergency whack-a-mole situation. This means chain heals arent going out, prayer of mendings and circle of healing may not go out as often as before, and paladins may even switch to a FoL spam to keep people alive.

Also full hots on a tank, as has been said before, lightens healing load and also reduces the likelyhood of tank gibs.

Not using most efficient healing spell druids possess is just plain stupid.

Also about "enough haste" and GotE:
Hitting soft cap for haste without GotE is dumb hard. But since you don't use Rejuvenation (nor Lifebloom as I can guess from your post) haste soft cap becomes obsolete.

I use lifebloom as a tank heal; I'll go ahead and roll a lifebloom stack on the MT with my full load of hots because those won't get wasted. The efficiency of my hots on anyone else is diminished by the fact that there is always another healer in the raid ready to top people off, so most of my hot ticks get wasted. RJ isn't very efficient if it only ticks once or doesn't tick at all. 4pc t8 will change that, but I'm not there yet. I can hot most of the raid and expect them to take damage before it runs out, but as we progress in ulduar people are getting better at avoiding what damage they can and I can't always count on someone taking more damage and using that hot.

That's why I've been using direct heals instead. I don't really have a mana problem; I've got the trinket that reduces spell costs and raid buffed I hit nearly 1k mp5. Rolling hots on the MT, wild growth every cd, and filling the rest of my time with regrowth I only have to use innervate on the longest fights, and I only have to pot if half the raid goes down and we somehow still have a chance to drag out a long fight and finish it. I'm not really as concerned with efficiency as output.

For those who still may be doubting revitalize: Here's another parse. This is Iron Council hard mode (Steelbreaker last). It's optimal for druid healing.

We used two resto druids.

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

Only counting healers, that's a total of 53,346 mana restored, or over 26,000 per druid. That's stronger than innervate even.

Here's the main part of the parse

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

Wow. That's it, I'm respeccing my pve-build. Here's to someone with a fetish for numbers share some thoughts on rage/RP/energy during such a fight as that. :d

I'm going to give some constructive criticism, so please don't take it as a personal attack.

First of all, you're not padding any meters by hotting people, if anything you're padding healing by using RG since using RG for anything but a tank will result in the initial heal being an overheal.
Also, the cost of a rejuv is much less than the cost of a regrowth on a target (plus they can get revitalize since you're specced for it) for every regrowth you're throwing out you could have probably rejuv'd 3 people.
My rejuv personally ticks for about 2600~ raid buffed every 3 seconds for 18 seconds.
Your way of healing, although I don't want to harshly criticize it, is pretty inefficient and bad.
With my haste set up and spec currently, my RG is 1.7 seconds, In that time, because I have a 1s GCD, I could almost Rejuv two people and pad them from incoming raid damage, and I'll be using less mana than that 1 Regrowth.
Honestly, because you don't use all your instants to its fullest potential I find a lot of your talents to be wasted.
Personally, I know other healers would kill to have instant cast heals like a druid at times in a lot of fights now, and the druid heals for raid is just too powerful to not be using them and to be so RG heavy.

The heals on your parses might be the same for now, but in my opinion that style of healing won't be nearly as effective in hard modes like Iron council 25m, in fact I think it'll hurt you a lot more if anything.

Also, for being a nourish/RG heavy druid, I find it odd how you decided against getting Living Seed. If you're really that heavy on casting spells I would figure you would have Living Seed 3/3 and Tranquil Spirit 5/5.