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04/05/09, 6:02 PM
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#826
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Glass Joe
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Best gear for Resto
It may be another post, but havent been able to find it. What is the best gear for each slot for a resto druid?
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04/05/09, 10:58 PM
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#827
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Mercurial Rapper
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Long story short Im not really worried at all about the patch changes. Not that I have tried any ulduar healing on the PTR but since Im more or less allready playing by the changed rules and not having any major troubles
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You're probably not really doing any fights worth a damn, though, so even then you're playing by the new rules (sort of, a regrowth-covered LB-expiration sounds like a huge pain in the ass to me and not much fun) you can't really tell whether they're going to be viable when you're doing something difficult, or how they stack up against other healers.
For example, have you healed Sarth+3 with this model?
Personally, I'm not hopeful about the changes -- I think effectively limiting LB to a single target and trying to micromanage the bloom so that it's not a total waste is going to be next to impossible on any fight of any difficulty. Maybe if you're just standing around staring at your bars, but I don't know of too many challenging fights where that was the case.
I think it's much more likely that we're just going to roll LB on a single target, rely on rejuv/swiftmend/WG for raidhealing, and when we have the downtime try to channel-cancel nourish on the tank.
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04/06/09, 3:16 AM
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#828
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Moonglade (EU)
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Originally Posted by Melador
You're probably not really doing any fights worth a damn, though, so even then you're playing by the new rules (sort of, a regrowth-covered LB-expiration sounds like a huge pain in the ass to me and not much fun) you can't really tell whether they're going to be viable when you're doing something difficult, or how they stack up against other healers.
For example, have you healed Sarth+3 with this model?
Personally, I'm not hopeful about the changes -- I think effectively limiting LB to a single target and trying to micromanage the bloom so that it's not a total waste is going to be next to impossible on any fight of any difficulty. Maybe if you're just standing around staring at your bars, but I don't know of too many challenging fights where that was the case.
I think it's much more likely that we're just going to roll LB on a single target, rely on rejuv/swiftmend/WG for raidhealing, and when we have the downtime try to channel-cancel nourish on the tank.
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Indeed, I do not know what ulduar will demand of me. But I dare say you don´t know either. I allready know how to keep lifebloom up on someone, that isn´t really hard, thus I don´t learn anything by doing so just cause mana allows me to atm. Its quite possible there will be battles where you haveto keep rolling it, but its also possible that there will be battles where there simply isn´t enoughe mana to carelessly roll LBs but where timing regrowths with letting it fall off will be valuable. It´s never a bad thing to have many ways to go about a task, and its never a bad thing for a raider to be prepared. To ponder ways to overcome new restrictions to a spell is never a wasted effort. Just out of curiosity... what do you intend to do about situations where you roll your LBs on a tank and hot people but your mana just isnt enoughe? Simply avoid any battle that challenges your manabar? Or what are your tricks to get by in a pinch?
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04/06/09, 4:15 AM
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#829
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Gorgonnash
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Originally Posted by Ploppy
what do you intend to do about situations where you roll your LBs on a tank and hot people but your mana just isnt enoughe? Simply avoid any battle that challenges your manabar? Or what are your tricks to get by in a pinch?
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Drink a mana pot or use Innervate? We're obviously going to have to use rolling Lifeblooms with more caution, that's the point of the nerf. I think the trick we're going to have to learn is when to roll that Lifebloom stack and when to conserve and use our other spells. We can still maintain our other hots without it being too taxing, and when the damage is pumping we pull out Lifeblooms. I'm sure there will be fights were we will be able to maintain at least one stack on a tank, and others where we might not be able to for the full duration of the fight. We'll just have to see.
Last edited by downnola : 04/06/09 at 6:47 AM.
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04/06/09, 5:56 AM
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#830
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Glass Joe
Tauren Druid
Skullcrusher (EU)
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To be honest, in fights that challenge me healing-wise, I already skip LB for the most part. Maybe I'm just bad, but LB already only seems to work for me when I can play the "assistant"-healer game. That is, when I can heal the raid and keep LB rolling on the tank(s), cushioning general damage but leaving the damage spikes to other healers. That style simply doesn't seem to work with few healers on challenging content like Sart+3, which is where LB gets phased out from my rotation almost entirely (except when I'm on MT healing).
On Sarth+3, I'm usually on add/drake tanks and the raid. Before Twilight Torment, the tanks get rather sporadic damage, so it's not really worth to roll LB on each of them. In Twilight Torment, I feel that LB doesn't have the required throughput, and I simply can't spare the gcd. With the frantc healing going on in that phase I would probably lose the stacks anyway, due to having to save someone from certain death.
With the new mana cost, there is a good chance that LB will be completely relegated to cases when I can focus mostly on one tank, and then it will mainly be Nourish-fodder. Sad, but not a big change to my current style of healing.
Looking at my Sarth recount/wws reports, I'm more worried about the regrowth nerf. Regrowth is usually around 50% in this specific fight, so it might get hit badly. Then again, most of its healing is the HoT, so it might not be so bad after all.
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04/06/09, 6:57 AM
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#831
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Grim Batol (EU)
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Originally Posted by Niliyu
To be honest, in fights that challenge me healing-wise, I already skip LB for the most part. Maybe I'm just bad, but LB already only seems to work for me when I can play the "assistant"-healer game. That is, when I can heal the raid and keep LB rolling on the tank(s), cushioning general damage but leaving the damage spikes to other healers. That style simply doesn't seem to work with few healers on challenging content like Sart+3, which is where LB gets phased out from my rotation almost entirely (except when I'm on MT healing).
On Sarth+3, I'm usually on add/drake tanks and the raid. Before Twilight Torment, the tanks get rather sporadic damage, so it's not really worth to roll LB on each of them. In Twilight Torment, I feel that LB doesn't have the required throughput, and I simply can't spare the gcd. With the frantc healing going on in that phase I would probably lose the stacks anyway, due to having to save someone from certain death.
With the new mana cost, there is a good chance that LB will be completely relegated to cases when I can focus mostly on one tank, and then it will mainly be Nourish-fodder. Sad, but not a big change to my current style of healing.
Looking at my Sarth recount/wws reports, I'm more worried about the regrowth nerf. Regrowth is usually around 50% in this specific fight, so it might get hit badly. Then again, most of its healing is the HoT, so it might not be so bad after all.
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Well, I know what you mean, since I had this feeling in TBC (about refreshing Lifebloom getting in the way of "actual" healing), but I don't think that's a major problem now. I refresh Lifebloom whenever I don't think I have anything better to do and even during Sarth+3D I can keep LB up on multiple tanks without letting it fall off too often. Especially on stuff like the elemental/whelp tank who gets hit a lot of times, but only for a small amounts, Lifebloom is king in keeping him topped off.
However, so far what I've noticed in 3.1 is that refreshing Lifebloom early is a luxury I can't afford and refreshing it as late as possible takes some getting used to. I haven't tried any hard modes yet except for Vezax (which of course is a special case since there isn't any mana regeneration possible), so I'll see how the more challenging fights will work out. Especially fights like hard mode Freya where there are multiple tanks I think we'll be missing Lifebloom a lot.
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04/06/09, 7:19 AM
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#832
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Glass Joe
Tauren Druid
Skullcrusher (EU)
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Originally Posted by Norfair
Well, I know what you mean, since I had this feeling in TBC (about refreshing Lifebloom getting in the way of "actual" healing), but I don't think that's a major problem now. I refresh Lifebloom whenever I don't think I have anything better to do and even during Sarth+3D I can keep LB up on multiple tanks without letting it fall off too often. Especially on stuff like the elemental/whelp tank who gets hit a lot of times, but only for a small amounts, Lifebloom is king in keeping him topped off.
However, so far what I've noticed in 3.1 is that refreshing Lifebloom early is a luxury I can't afford and refreshing it as late as possible takes some getting used to. I haven't tried any hard modes yet except for Vezax (which of course is a special case since there isn't any mana regeneration possible), so I'll see how the more challenging fights will work out. Especially fights like hard mode Freya where there are multiple tanks I think we'll be missing Lifebloom a lot.
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It would be interesting for me to know if you healed the same way when you were learning the encounter. Our guild killed Sarth with 3 drakes for the first time yesterday (yeah we are slow, I know...). We had 3 healers on the raid/add/drake tanks (another druid, a shaman and me) and 2 on the MT. Here is the wws report if it is of interest.
I usually have regrowth and rejuv on the tanks, which - together with the rejuvs/regrowths from the second druid - seemed to be perfectly fine in topping up the add tank. Maybe the key is really that I'm not the only druid in the raid, resulting in a different healing style? Then again, maybe my brain capacity is just not enough to keep LB reliably going through hard healing 
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04/06/09, 7:31 AM
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#833
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Grim Batol (EU)
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Originally Posted by Niliyu
It would be interesting for me to know if you healed the same way when you were learning the encounter. Our guild killed Sarth with 3 drakes for the first time yesterday (yeah we are slow, I know...). We had 3 healers on the raid/add/drake tanks (another druid, a shaman and me) and 2 on the MT. Here is the wws report if it is of interest.
I usually have regrowth and rejuv on the tanks, which - together with the rejuvs/regrowths from the second druid - seemed to be perfectly fine in topping up the add tank. Maybe the key is really that I'm not the only druid in the raid, resulting in a different healing style? Then again, maybe my brain capacity is just not enough to keep LB reliably going through hard healing 
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I did, which resulted in a few lavawall / voidzone fails on our first night since there's a lot of things to keep track of (lava walls, void zones, making sure I'm standing in DnD, hot timers and raid health). But after getting "the routine" it works well.
In your WWS I see you healed a lot compared to the other healers. Also we use 6 healers instead of 5. My first guess is that isn't normal and that your other healers don't pull their weight, and therefore you have the feeling that if you don't use a lot of direct healing, people will die?
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04/06/09, 8:54 AM
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#834
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stalemate associate
Blood Elf Paladin
Mal'Ganis
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Those of you who hate rolling Lifeblooms are really going to have a party rolling Rejuv on a dozen people. Have I mentioned that this is a dumb playstyle yet? It combines the brainlessness of CoH mashing with the irritating finger strain of Warrior tanking.
This needs to be toned down somehow or it'll dominate any fight with a significant amount of AoE damage. Maybe it's time for a cooldown on Rejuv.
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04/06/09, 9:14 AM
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#835
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Glass Joe
Tauren Druid
Skullcrusher (EU)
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Originally Posted by malthrin
Those of you who hate rolling Lifeblooms are really going to have a party rolling Rejuv on a dozen people. Have I mentioned that this is a dumb playstyle yet? It combines the brainlessness of CoH mashing with the irritating finger strain of Warrior tanking.
This needs to be toned down somehow or it'll dominate any fight with a significant amount of AoE damage. Maybe it's time for a cooldown on Rejuv.
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I don't think anyone "hates" Lifebloom rolling? I use it all the time in Naxx and heroics and when specifically tank healing. It's just a question of usefulness or practicability under different circumstances. Now we can also add mana efficiency to this equation. I keep my raid alive, and I will use what works best for me and my healer group (which admittedly might have to shape up a little). If that is a dumb playstyle, so be it.
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04/06/09, 1:14 PM
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#836
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Moonglade (EU)
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Originally Posted by downnola
Drink a mana pot or use Innervate? We're obviously going to have to use rolling Lifeblooms with more caution, that's the point of the nerf. I think the trick we're going to have to learn is when to roll that Lifebloom stack and when to conserve and use our other spells. We can still maintain our other hots without it being too taxing, and when the damage is pumping we pull out Lifeblooms. I'm sure there will be fights were we will be able to maintain at least one stack on a tank, and others where we might not be able to for the full duration of the fight. We'll just have to see.
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I don´t really count the battles where a manapot and an innervate is all you need to keep going as those that challenge your manabar. So far the only ones I have faced that do this was naxx while being undergeared on account of starting up later than the rest of my raidgroup or when other healers mess up or die.
About mass rejuvenating and aoe damage fights I can agree it gets somewhat spammy, but I´m not really sure how they should solve the situation for the better. When people take lots of damage we drop our wild growths and rejuvs but what kind of ability would take away the spammy feeling? Rejuvspam feels spammy cause its one of our best spells without a CD. If they were to add one we don´t haveto klick as much it would haveto be something that heals a lot of people that isn´t instant and such a spell would haveto have a cooldown. If it didn´t they would haveto make it castable fast enoughe so not become to slow to react to aoe damage and if it was fast with a CD a lot of situations we would simply be back to rejuving when our chain heal wannabe is on CD so we would basicly just have another wild growth. I guess they could overhaul tranquility into something raidwide but I have a hard time imagening any shape that would make it usefull unless it has a CD and if it has a CD... well, now Im going in circles...
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04/06/09, 2:46 PM
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#837
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Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Laughing Skull
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Originally Posted by malthrin
Those of you who hate rolling Lifeblooms are really going to have a party rolling Rejuv on a dozen people. Have I mentioned that this is a dumb playstyle yet? It combines the brainlessness of CoH mashing with the irritating finger strain of Warrior tanking.
This needs to be toned down somehow or it'll dominate any fight with a significant amount of AoE damage. Maybe it's time for a cooldown on Rejuv.
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I hate rolling Lifebloom, but I have no problem healing ~8 people by rolling Rejuv. That is how I have been primarily playing since WLK. It's fine. Have you ever done Sapphiron? How else do you heal it other than spamming Rejuv for 5 minutes, and WG on cooldown? I enjoy healing Sapphiron much more than Patchwerk.
I don't understand your thought process. How does a spell being particularly effective at a task mean it should be toned down? What sort of spell balance do you envision where you don't have to spam something to heal 20 people of aoe damage? What is it about Rejuvenation being effective at healing raid aoe damage that makes you think it would be better with a cooldown?
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04/06/09, 3:24 PM
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#838
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Don Flamenco
Tauren Druid
Chromaggus (EU)
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Haven't done the fights on the PTR, but spamming rejuv doesn't seem very productive besides on specific fights (read: sapphiron). It's of course very useful as both a tank heal as well as a light raid heal, but raid damage is often better healed with our other spells.
The main selling point of rejuv is that it's very cheap, both in mana and in cast time. It's the default heal for a minor HP deficit which might explain why it accounts for a lot of healing. But if you have to heal specific damage - say malygos' AOE - you're not gonna rejuv.
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04/06/09, 3:27 PM
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#839
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Glass Joe
Tauren Druid
Ner'zhul (EU)
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The past two days I have been thinking about respecing my Druid. I was doing well with 14/0/57 or 11/0/60 but today I woke up and decided to go 28/0/43.
The loss of GotE is slightly counterbalanced by Celestial Focus (3% haste) and I'm not a WG spammer, so I think I can pass on it. I'm only using it on fights like Saphhiron (with my Rejuv' spam), Malygos before and after Vortex, etc. It's not more than 10% of my heal in the actual content, and I think these 10% can be healed with other skills, or by the other healers (because I'm doing 50% of the total healing in 10 man runs).
I'm also losing Living Seed, which is no big deal and 5% spirit in SP, and Improved Tranquility/Empowered Touch.
In exchange I gain 12% of my intellect in SP and 10% in MP5, 3% haste, Improved Thorns (which tend to be a good DPS boost on bosses like Patchwerk or when there's multi-tanking).
If I'm doing well with no WG, the gain of Dreamstate and Lunar Guidance, combined with raid buffs like BoK and Arcane Brilliance could be a good thing with the Lifebloom "nerf" we're going to "suffer" in 3.1, admitting I'm still going to roll lifebloom on 1 or 2 tanks and not let it bloom (because my healing crew buddies dont let the tank's life drop low, so the bloom will be overheal 80% of the time).
My SP and mana regeneration will also scale better with Ulduar stuff and the 4% bonus on Improved Mark of the Wild.
What are you thinking of this? Good idea, or anyone already tested it and couldn't go dirty without WG? CoH + Chain Heal are beasts in 10-man, and yes I'm not doing 25-man raiding where I think WG is much more useful.
Last edited by Kaidroth : 04/06/09 at 3:44 PM.
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04/06/09, 4:04 PM
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#840
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stalemate associate
Blood Elf Paladin
Mal'Ganis
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Originally Posted by red
I hate rolling Lifebloom, but I have no problem healing ~8 people by rolling Rejuv. That is how I have been primarily playing since WLK. It's fine. Have you ever done Sapphiron? How else do you heal it other than spamming Rejuv for 5 minutes, and WG on cooldown? I enjoy healing Sapphiron much more than Patchwerk.
I don't understand your thought process. How does a spell being particularly effective at a task mean it should be toned down? What sort of spell balance do you envision where you don't have to spam something to heal 20 people of aoe damage? What is it about Rejuvenation being effective at healing raid aoe damage that makes you think it would be better with a cooldown?
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It's the consequences of Rejuv's effectiveness that are a problem. Let's start with the premise that gameplay should involve making decisions, rather than just mashing a rotation. In TBC, Lifebloom rolling was so effective that it usually accounted for the majority of a Druid's GCDs. This decision-less gameplay was seen by Blizzard as a bad thing, hence the addition of Nature's Splendor. Now Rejuv rolling threatens to push us into a static, decisionless rotation again. That is a bad thing; effective but brainless doesn't add up to fun, and it's not what Blizzard wants for us.
Originally Posted by Kaidroth
The past two days I have been thinking about respecing my Druid. I was doing well with 14/0/57 or 11/0/60 but today I woke up and decided to go 28/0/43.
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Discussion of Dreamstate or any specs with more than 20 points in balance is forbidden in this thread - please see the OP.
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