Your numbers are pretty consistant with mine from my own guild's parses. With 1 resto druid each healer typically gets 4-6k mana back on average each fight, with 6 healers thats about 24-30k mana back for me alone for revitalize.

In my conclusion about itl, it gives more utility to two spells that is a druid's bread and butter and it give's a unique buff that no other class can provide to raids which stacks with other druids. Shouldn't ever be a reason to overlook it for PvE.

Thanks for the feedback; I have thick enough skin to make use of good criticism.

On revitalize: It really scales with the gear of your raid. When I go hard on the RJ and WG I'm seeing just over 2k mana returned to healers, an average of 56 rage for the tank, and negligible energy for the rogues/feral druid. We're not a badly geared raid, but we haven't got a lot out of ulduar yet.

I admit my talent build is pretty confused at the moment. I dropped Living Seed for Revitalize when I decided to try moving away from RG/Nourish toward hots because my crit is abysmal anyhow. I left out Tranquil Spirit because I haven't been running out of mana; hard modes will change that. I was looking at the iron council log Harmankaya posted above and boggling at the sheer throughput of the top healers.

Unfortunately I'm not often in a position where I can cast RG and have the initial heal go to overheal, which is part of my problem. People accumulate so much damage so fast in Ulduar that it goes against my instincts to just drop a RJ on someone and wait 3 whole seconds for it to tick; right now my raid members either know how to avoid the worst of the damage or they fail and take tons and need to be propped up long enough to get some experience and figure out what they're doing wrong. My biggest overheal is typically from lifebloom, but I'm only using it on the tank so I don't have a problem with that. I've got a ways to go for a 2600 RJ tick, I hit about 2250 atm.

I am getting better though; last night I held myself to 16% of my casts as RG; I never used the bottom half of my mana pool all night aside from council where I had to roll lifeblooms on 2 tanks. I've got a 1s GCD and just over 1.6s RG, so if I'm going to get serious about RJ instead of RG I can afford to dump haste back down to the soft cap. Is it more worthwhile to do this through gear or talents? I'm thinking probably talents, since the tradeoff in gear is haste vs crit and crit doesn't do me much good casting hots. Doing it through talents I could dump CF, but I'm not sure what else I'd want to do with the points.

Quick question as to revitalize. Let's say for instance their is a priest who takes no damage over the duration of a fight. You spam rejuv, and Wild Growth on them constantly. Will revitalize restore mana with the ticks of RJ and WG, or does their need to be damage with health restored inorder for revitalize to work properly?

Revitalize can proc on 100% overheal so even if they aren't taking damage if you have rejuv and wg on them it'll proc.

Exactly what I was looking for Latharan, thanks

Fight Length = 48:26 - 41:51 = 395 sec = 79 p5sec
Mhedic: 7016 / 2 = 3508 mana = 44.41 Mp5 = 14 procs - per druid
Werebeef: 7961 / 2 = 3980.5 mana = 50.39 Mp5 = 18 procs - per druid
Melador: 6817 / 2 = 3408.5 mana = 43.15 Mp5 = 16 procs - per druid
Kemosabe: 9849 / 2 = 4924.5 mana = 62.34 Mp5 = 19 procs - per druid
Siawyn: 7288 / 2 = 3644 mana = 46.13 Mp5 = 16 procs - per druid
Gurgthock: 4538 / 2 = 2269 mana = 28.72 Mp5 = 9 procs - per druid
Zoid: 9877 / 2 = 4938.5 mana = 62.51 Mp5 = 16.5 procs - per druid
Mp5 Total for healers only = 337.65 Mp5 per druid
Mp5 Average for healers only = 48.24 Mp5 per druid
Mana Total for healers only = 26,673 mana per druid
Rejuv and WG ticks: Werebeef = 577 + 905 = 1482 Ticks
Rejuv and WG ticks: Melador = 517 + 599 = 1116 Ticks
Procs: 1 druid = 393 / 2 = 196.5 procs per druid
Average of procs per healer per druid: 15.5 procs
Procs Total = 393

Just a quick Barkskin related comment: I have Lifeblood macro'd to Barkskin and my Healthstone. It's not going to win the game, but I found that otherwise I never even remembered the spell existed during a raid and if I'm using either of the above then I must be having some kind of personal emergency so every little bit helps.

Thank you cuddlekin for breaking the mathematics down for us. Mp5 Average for healers only = 48.24 Mp5 per druid! Personally, I think the ends the argument all in itself. And that's only accounting for the mana returns minus the rage and energy returns. And also scaling with gear as more healers gain a larger mana pools makes it all the better. I personally was spec'd into CF, but it is true that haste gear is very abundant in Ulduar.

Anyone know of any intermediate to advanced raiding guides. Some sheet that breaks down the HPS/HPCT/ spell power coefficients, all that stuff. As well as maybe some advice about rotations all rolled into one.

Yeah, I'm thinking of dropping a couple points from Tranquil Spirit to pick it up. The extra armor is hard to complain about for trash, too. At this point with the Thorns nerf, I could see merging my PvE and PvP specs into something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft .

You may actually want to keep those separate if there's ever a fight with a Silence effect in the future; you can't Barkskin during a Silence, but you can Lifeblood/healthstone/potion.

Anyone who raids and takes Imp. Barkskin but not Living Seed doesn't understand how to play a resto Druid.

Edit: ..and you have 3/3 Natural Perfection and no Nature's Grace..

This isn't the PVP forums and the spec you linked above isn't a PVE spec.

Could somebody explain me, why so many players put 3 points in Subtlety?
As far as I know, raid bosses do not dispel HoTs and I've never been in a situation where -10% aggro would've helped me. Putting this point in Tranquil Spirit seems much more logic to me, but I easily could be overseeing something here.

I see your point, but, as I said, I never remember the spell. However, hitting Barkskin when under threat has become habit from BG's.


I think it depends on how progressed you are in your current content. In my guild, me and a resto shaman make up 50% of the healing, while the other 4 healers make up the other 50%. If me or the shaman die and can't rez/be rezzed then that is a huge chunk of healing lost for any progression attempt. So I want to minimize the chance a Razorscale/XT/Freya add, or even a trash mob will aggro onto me. Once we've fully cleared Ulduar I will reassess my talents.

I think you have to test your comfort level in your own raids to see if you can get away with 1 or 2 points in Subtlety. I just haven't reached that level with our offtanks yet.

There are two ways to get to tier5 talents and best points to give is Subtlety. Its not like we are able to dump those points. See the talents you will understand what I mean

Regular PvE Build Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Alternative Healing Touch Build Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

In both cases you can see that you have only 1 or 2 points to dump to Tranquil Spirit which is %2/%4 off Nourish basically. It will not make life and death difference.

If you are not into Nature's Grace maybe something like this can be good especially if you use Nourish often.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

If I have 402 haste unbuffed, plus Scale of Fates, and Egg of Mortal Essence. Can I rock 3 points in GotEM instead of 4, without any noticeable loss in GCD speed?

RAWR tells me that this works mathematically, but for some reason it also shows me doing a little bit less healing with 3 points, even though my raid buffed state is still 1.0 GCD on those spells.

I'll be switching out Egg for DMC:G Spirit next week I think.

Whoa whoa, that Alternative Healing Touch suggestion is BAD. Why would you skip Master Shapeshifter? There better ways to get HT talents in if that's really what one wants.

Back before the nourish buffs the spell was overshadowed in nearly every situation by RG, so putting the point in tranq spirit didn't amount to anything. Nowadays I figured people just do it out of habit forgetting they can improve their Nourish by a minimal amount.

EDIT:

Thanks for all the numbers on revitalize, its been an eye opening experience.

I often spec 3 points into sublety because there's very little benefit from points in tranq spirit.

Quick napkin math
1 pt = 2% mana
Nourish ~500 mana/cast
10 mana off each cast

On average I cast about 20 nourishes per fight.
20x10 = 200 mana.

I die every week on Hodir trash at least once due to healing aggro>10% aoe tank threat, and occasionally get iceblocked on p3 due to poor pickups from tanks, as well as other random trash sometimes. If the talent point saves me some deaths, it's doing a lot more than tranq spirit since I don't have mana problems anyways. If it means another healer dies because of this it means I save the gold and can just battle rez them anyways.

Over the course of a 6 minute fight at absolute maximum you'll only have a haste buff up ~39% of the time . For me, not being haste soft-capped 60+% of the time is just not worth it. Though the on-use from [Scale of Fates] is far from useless for healing it's substantially better in the hands of a DPS.

Nature's Grace is weak. Nourish will clip the GCD, and you never spam Regrowth anymore. I dropped Nature's Grace myself and don't miss it.

Living Seed may be dropped in favor of Imp. Barkskin for specialized hard mode specs where you need the extra burst mitigation while at the same time you aren't healing tanks, but rolling hots full time.

I’ve been trying to maximize my single-target HPS, for the occasions where I’ve actually needed to do some short-term main tank healing. In the past I’ve gone largely spammed Nourish. However when I recently took the numbers from the provided spreadsheets, and did some napkin math, I came up with an interesting result; it appears I can actually increase my HPS on the target by working in Regrowth and Swiftmend. Here are my results in summary:

4,875 HPS: Regrowth + Swiftmend + Nourish
4,830 HPS: Nourish only
4,780 HPS: Rejuvenation + Swiftmend + Nourish
4,535 HPS: Lifebloom 3-stack + Nourish

For reference I used my current build and ignored Nature’s Grace, since I am planning on moving those talent points soon. I also assumed a 54 second fight, as I was not looking for a rotation that was sustainable long-term. It appears the increase in HPS from Swiftmend and the Regrowth HoT may be enough to offset the loss in HPS due to casting Regrowth; assuming Swiftmend and Nourish are both glyphed.

Given that the Swiftmend and Nourish glyphs are well utilized I thought this might be an interesting insight for the community. Though the increase in HPS isn’t massive, it appeared to be significant nonetheless. However I’d be interested in knowing if others have found this to be true for different builds, or if this is just a figment of my napkin math.

Edit: Thank you for the correction Rijndael, i get about 5,500 HPS with the rotation you provided.

The consensus opinion for maximumizing HPS for main tank healing is to maintain a full Lifebloom stack AND Regrowth AND Rejuvenation AND spam (glyphed) Nourish.