Living seed is hardly a great synergy with HoTs as it is more likely to turn your ticks into overhealing on any encounter beyond Patchwerk type fights.

I don't have a whole lot to add to the thread, to be honest. My feelings have already been expressed by many of the posters here, whether I agree with them or not. I would like to see Regrowth better balanced so that it isn't out number one go-to heal for burst, because as things stand right now, it outshines poor Nourish by miles at first. Only when you get some decent gear (4 piece T7) does Nourish even become viable, and even then, a lot of Druids will argue that isn't the case. Now, I used Nourish before I even had the gear and liked it, but I do admit it needs some serious help and hopefully it will be provided soon by Blizzard.

As far as HoT timers go, one of my favorite add-on timers is DoTimer. I admit the Wild Growth bit where it spams the add-on and therefore doesn't display the tank until WG wears off.. At the same time, it's incredibly effective otherwise and I have no trouble maintaining HoTs properly on my tank even with Wild Growth concealing the remaining time.

Another thing of note is the talent Replenish. I know we don't really have any 'cookie cutter' builds. I think this has to do with several things. The first being how easy content currently is and the fact that there are a number of our deep Resto talents that are pretty lackluster. I'm curious how others feel about Replenish. My raid currently has three resto Druids, two of which who swear by it and me, and I honestly feel the talent is garbage if you are a main-tank healer. With CoH being the way it is, and will be even after the patch, Druids are, as far as I know, main tank healers for most encounters. How could we not be? HoTs rule.

Even so, my raid supports primarily bear tanks and warrior tanks (mostly warriors unless we need offtanks). Being that Rejuv on DPS is only useful in certain, and very few, encounters (Sapphiron comes to mind), Rejuv will be on the tanks almost 90% of the time one spends inside of a raid instance. My question is this. How is Replenish at all a viable place to spend talent points? Warrior and bear tanks are hardly, if at *all*, rage starved and going over my raid's WWS reports reveals that my fellow Druid's are casting their Rejuvs, as I initially felt they would, on the tanks. I could see this talent being a *little* better if our MT was a Paladin, where the possible mana regen would be helpful but probably unnecessary. Given that our tanks are bears and warriors, I really am not sure why one would take it.

Any ideas as to why anyone would?

I tried a Malygos the other day using rejuv much more than I usually do, partly as practice for the patch and partly cuz I do think I've been under-using it. It was my top heal, accounting for 30-something %. Checking the WWS it looked as though my 3/3 replenish was providing in total somewhere around 10% the mana regen of the standard replenishments. I was pretty disappointed since I couldn't have really cast it any more than I did. On an average fight it must be much less. I think I'd be better served putting the points in Natural Perfection.

Rejuv is amazing - it's cheap, even without the idol, and it's one of our highest healing/spellcast spells for fire and forget purposes. That said, Replenish still doesn't seem very good.

No disrespect but I also find the numbers that you are quoting impossible apple-to-apple comparison.

I do not have the exact number but just the range. I have 1.8K SP unbuff in Tree Form,

Regrowth -
Non Crits - 4xxx-5xxx
Crits - 7xxx-8xxx

Nourish - No HOTs
Non Crits - 3xxx-4xxx
Crits - 5xxx-6xxx

Nourish - with HOTs
Non Crits - 5xxx
Crits - 7xxx

My opinion for the discussion whether or not to use Nourish, is that it depends on the situation.

Like many others who have expressed the idea, Nourish is a great flash heal. Given the amount of haste on druid heal gears, Nourish base cast time can easily be 1.3seconds or lower (this is without haste procs or BL). So in situation where u need to spam to patch Tanks up, its very very good. Fights like Patch, or after a Decimate for example?

Regrowth have its place as well, fights where raid wide damage is constant, and you want to have at least a HOTs ticking on raiders at longer duration... I use regrowth. Think Malygos phase 2, or in OS where players somehow forgot to avoid the lava wave? or ppl getting ice tombed in KT which can be quickly fixed using a Regrowth + Swiftmend?

Even Healing touch have its use, say a pre-cast unglyphed HT on Tanks in Loatheb fight follow by Reju/WG on raid... win.

To date, I love healing as a druid, its because we have so many spells and tricks we can use in very different situation. Rejuvenation, Lifebloom, Nourish, Regrowth, Healing Touch, all have their places and situations where can be used.

My point is, avoid going into argument of this spell is better than that spell so I will use this spell exclusively...


I don't quite understand, I would assume the difference is 0.5 always because haste will reduce both spell proportionately? Hmm ... does haste reduces different spells' cast time differently?

off memory, my regrowth now cast in 1.8sec and my nourish in 1.3sec... seems to be about right with the 0.5seconds ....

Haste works in percentages not in actual amounts of -0.x second portions. 50% of 2seconds is not the same as 50% of 1.5seconds.
Nourish takes 75% the time of a regrowth to cast - this remains stable, but the actual difference in casttime varies at different hastelevels.

x% haste means you cast x% more spells in any given timeframe. In 30s you can cast 20 nourishes or 15 regrowths, with 20% haste you can cast 24 nourishes or 18 regrowths. So you still cast 33% more nourishes even if the difference is lower then 0.5s.

I'm curious if anyone can think of a reasonable way to test if Living Seed actually adds healing done or steals it from your HoTs.
I don't care about the fact LS might heal at better times where it helps you more than having to wait for HoT ticks or anything.

IE: RJ, RG & LB healing 100k each and LS healing 15k.
If you dropped LS would you end up with something like RJ, RG & LB healing 105k each instead? or would you still end up healing only 100k each and actually miss out on that free 15k healing done.

Well, I think it's a reasonable assumption that each tier of speed steals healing from the one below it:
Shields steal from proc healing (LS, Earth Shield, PoM), which steal from 1 sec hots (Lifebloom, WG), which steal from 3 sec hots and instants (Rejuv, CoH), which steal from cast time heals. As to verifying it, I don't think it's possible - there's no combat log event for a hot tick that doesn't happen because the recipient is at full hp, right? It's the same reason we've never been able to do a full analysis of just how much our hots are really overhealing.

Someone a couple pages back was looking for examples of wws'es of druids doing well. Here's our malygos kill and then attempts at 3 drakes last night (yes we wiped a lot, but we nearly got it and will get it next raid).

Wow Web Stats

As you can see druids can crush the competition when played correctly.

Basolish - US Frostwolf

Just check the uptime of your hots and compare to the number of ticks and it'll give a decent view how much is wasted. You'll need some non-wws parse to see this though since wws doesn't have it.