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Old 04/17/09, 5:37 AM   #931
Norfair
Piston Honda
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Grim Batol (EU)
Originally Posted by reiska View Post
Last night we downed Razorscale and had good tries on XT-002. During these fights, I was spamming Rejuvenation and Nourish non-stop, and was unable to really get lower than 50% mana and didn't need Innervate (which I even glyphed in anticipation of mana problems) or a mana potion. Anybody else had this experience? Will this change on later bosses (Vezax obviously)?

As a sidenote, Revitalize is horribad. I regret taking it, since I now need to respec out of it...
At almost every fight (killed all bosses except Vezax, Yogg and Ignis) I did use my Innervate and sometimes a pot too. But that's with keeping Lifebloom up. Rolling LB on multiple tanks is possible too, as long as you go back to just 1 tank when mana is starting to get tight. So far I had little mana problems, but then again we didn't do any hard modes yet.


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Old 04/17/09, 6:45 AM   #932
ttyl
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Destromath
I can't find the quote, but someone awhile back said we were becoming Rejuv-bots. My experience so far in Ulduar agrees with this... I can't even imagine how superior it will be with our 4-set. It seems like the only way we can compete with (or at least work well with) the massive raid healing going on now (new PoH/CoH mostly) is pRejuving as many people as possible. Basically, we're back to the small-heals-between-big-heals role, but is this role even needed? Does it help the raid anymore than another Shaman/Priest/Paladin would? Rolling LB on the MT is a waste unless a Paladin/Disc Priest can't out-heal incoming damage, which is rare. Shaman and Holy Priest "smart" raid heals don't recognize our HoTs, and their quick spot heals are superior to ours.

Healer composition and strain are a big factor in how effective we are, so perhaps I've just become too used to bringing minimum healers in 3.0 raids? I'm trying not to sound whiny, but healing as a resto druid in Ulduar feels very ineffective. It looks great on the meters, but is does it honestly benefit the raid? I can't tell.

Also, there's no reason to use "1x LB -> Nourish" for a raid heal. I typed out the math, but ended up deleting it because it seemed very obvious. Do you need to see it?

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Old 04/17/09, 8:59 AM   #933
• malthrin
stalemate associate
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by ttyl View Post
I can't find the quote, but someone awhile back said we were becoming Rejuv-bots. My experience so far in Ulduar agrees with this... I can't even imagine how superior it will be with our 4-set. It seems like the only way we can compete with (or at least work well with) the massive raid healing going on now (new PoH/CoH mostly) is pRejuving as many people as possible.
That was me, and quite a few people disagreed at the time. Funny to see people starting to come around now that Ulduar is actually out. Rejuv is by far our best spell and we'll be leveraging it as much as possible on every fight.

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Old 04/17/09, 9:02 AM   #934
reiska
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Al'Akir (EU)
I was also posting that on the official WoW-forums, and was promptly laughed out. I guess they will see what it's about now...

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Old 04/17/09, 10:02 AM   #935
Naleihna
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis (EU)
Originally Posted by Theitchy View Post
is anyone loving Living Seed?

I definately am loving the seeds. But it depends on the encounter. We stand before Mimiron now, and there are many bosses that have big spike dmg on a person in the raid. (like slag pot@ignis, the fist thing @kologarn, and many abilities from mimiron etc) And in those situations its just very nice to pump nourish into those targets and even if its overheal you still get those living seeds, making nourish pretty strong in those situations.

Regarding revitalize, i kept hots up on a rogues, i think it was kologarn, and he regged ~200 energie through the whole encounter. I dont know how much dps that is, but i guess its pretty decent. But thats when i really focus on keeping reju+wg up. So in a normal fight were you hot for heal and not for revitalize proccs the number would be lower.

The information comes from recount, wws seems buggy atm sais the guy that does that in our guild.

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Old 04/17/09, 10:30 AM   #936
faubellous
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Terokkar
Has anyone else noticed that the mana return mechanic on LB might be bugged. After some tests last night LB cost me 733 mana to cost and a single stack returns 490 mana. This appears to be much closer to the untalented mana cost of LB. It appears that we may be getting half the base cost of LB back rather than the actual cost.


Edit:

Thanks for the clarification Playered. I've been pleasantly surprised by the way my mana has been holding up so far in Ulduar(cleared through council minus Ignis) and was worried there might have been a nerf/bugfix inc.

Last edited by faubellous : 04/17/09 at 10:57 AM.

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Old 04/17/09, 10:30 AM   #937
Playered
Soda Popinski
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
I also mentioned earlier in the PTR cycle that RJ should have been looked at before 3.1 went live (rather than LB) if they were worried about output.

There are far more fights where heavily using RJ is not only strong but really sustainable even when using it near every GCD. Hard modes with high levels of raid damage (ie: Iron Council) will be so brutally obvious at pointing out how powerful it is that I don't doubt there will be lots of forum QQ about it and this is before you even take the 4T8 into consideration.

We will see how things pan out over the next month or so as people start attempting the hard modes and as Druids start getting 4T8 and that trinket but if not before then when 3.2 hits the PTR the first thing I would expect is a nerf to the cost of the spell and/or to the Idol because it will end up dominating our play style and our other spells by a large margin.


[e] For the above the mana restore from LB works the same as all other functions of it (ie: Illumination).
The restore is based on the base mana of the spell and ignores any cost reduction function you have. OOC will make the spell cost 0 mana and when it expires it will still give you 490~ back.

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Old 04/17/09, 12:12 PM   #938
Sagus
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Skullcrusher
My guild has been having problems with Razorscale, and it seems to be in part a healing issue. My style of healing has been spamming nourish every GCD, which I absolutely hate having to do since it just doesn't feel druid-like to me. What styles of healing have you guys been doing?
Our set up pretty much has 4 healers (me, 2 resto shammies and a holy priest) on raid heals. There are 2 priests and a pally that are mainly healing tanks with minimal raid heals. Watching their mana I think they could help out a bit more with raid heals however. Should I try to convince them to help out more with raid heals and I try to shift into more of a HoT everyone role? Or would rejuvs still not help out much against that kind of damage (those back to back fireballs are especially nasty)?

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Old 04/17/09, 12:20 PM   #939
• malthrin
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
On Razorscale, the key to not losing anyone is getting the damage healed fast. Druids have the worst fast healing; have them heal the tanks. Let Paladins and Shamans snipe away at the raid damage.

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Old 04/17/09, 12:30 PM   #940
DigitalMocking
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Silvermoon
Originally Posted by Sagus View Post
My guild has been having problems with Razorscale, and it seems to be in part a healing issue. My style of healing has been spamming nourish every GCD, which I absolutely hate having to do since it just doesn't feel druid-like to me. What styles of healing have you guys been doing?
Our set up pretty much has 4 healers (me, 2 resto shammies and a holy priest) on raid heals. There are 2 priests and a pally that are mainly healing tanks with minimal raid heals. Watching their mana I think they could help out a bit more with raid heals however. Should I try to convince them to help out more with raid heals and I try to shift into more of a HoT everyone role? Or would rejuvs still not help out much against that kind of damage (those back to back fireballs are especially nasty)?
Priests make better raid healers for burst damage like razorscale, you should be on a couple of tanks.

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Old 04/17/09, 4:55 PM   #941
Rijndael
Don Flamenco
 
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Dwarf Priest
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Sagus View Post
My guild has been having problems with Razorscale, and it seems to be in part a healing issue. My style of healing has been spamming nourish every GCD, which I absolutely hate having to do since it just doesn't feel druid-like to me. What styles of healing have you guys been doing?
Our set up pretty much has 4 healers (me, 2 resto shammies and a holy priest) on raid heals. There are 2 priests and a pally that are mainly healing tanks with minimal raid heals. Watching their mana I think they could help out a bit more with raid heals however. Should I try to convince them to help out more with raid heals and I try to shift into more of a HoT everyone role? Or would rejuvs still not help out much against that kind of damage (those back to back fireballs are especially nasty)?
What's wrong with Regrowth? I found it a great 'fast heal' for Razor. And the best part is the hot does a lot of healing later after the target takes random damage. I was very competitive with our holy priests on raid healing on Razor.

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Old 04/17/09, 10:53 PM   #942
grimtage
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight (EU)
Originally Posted by Rijndael View Post
What's wrong with Regrowth? I found it a great 'fast heal' for Razor. And the best part is the hot does a lot of healing later after the target takes random damage. I was very competitive with our holy priests on raid healing on Razor.
Regrowth is way too slow of a heal. If you want to "snipe" heal as it is so eloquently put, you need to healing touch glyph up, baby. Competing with holy priests at the moment is no achievement, compete with a good paladin and get back to me. Priests are much stronger as disc now, and therefore the meters will really lie about how much effect they're having.

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Old 04/18/09, 1:52 AM   #943
red
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Laughing Skull
I did Razorscale as HT glyph spec, and it worked fine for raid healing. It certainly felt incredibly inefficient to spam HT all over the place, but once the fight got under control it was great for sniping those fireball hits. Mana wasn't an issue.

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Old 04/18/09, 3:24 AM   #944
Rijndael
Don Flamenco
 
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Dwarf Priest
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by grimtage View Post
Regrowth is way too slow of a heal. If you want to "snipe" heal as it is so eloquently put, you need to healing touch glyph up, baby. Competing with holy priests at the moment is no achievement, compete with a good paladin and get back to me. Priests are much stronger as disc now, and therefore the meters will really lie about how much effect they're having.
If Regrowth is too slow for you you need more haste and Celestial Focus. Or you have too many healers on the raid. There are some fights where 0.5 seconds makes a lot of difference (Kolo!) but not Razor in my experience. Regrowth is a lot more throughput than Nourish if the target isn't going to die. It also pays "interest" later due to the long HOT.

Paladins on the raid are a misuse of the class (and are trivial to beat -- they have no real AoE). Good holy priests are extremely powerful raid healers with a buffed CoH and a talent which grants to renew what we need a 4 piece tier bonus for. Plus PoM and PoH. Good holy priests are very hard to beat, even on druid-favorable fights like Hodir (on our first kill our top priest beat me).

Last edited by Rijndael : 04/18/09 at 4:38 AM.

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Old 04/18/09, 10:03 AM   #945
ZoleeTee
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Quel'Thalas (EU)
On Thursday night on Razorscale I was on raid healing with another resto druid and a holy/disc priest. Raid healing felt a little wierd after the changes and had to adapt a lot from "spamming LB and WG raid heals with Nourish here and there" to "let's just stop here and think about it because mana is running low way too quick" and it didn't feel efficient enough either. Topping the healing meter was not too difficult but that should not be the point.

We went in 10 man and I was on raid healing again and changed a little tactic there. I started using Regrowth with stacking LB on tanks and using Rejuv in combo with Regrowth and threw some quick Nourish where it was needed and it worked out a lot better and it felt a lot better as well, and on top of it it seemed to be mana efficient as well.

On 10 man XT-002 just roughly from judging when tantrum was about to come, also on raid healing, used Regrowth again on everyone and it worked like a charm with Rejuv and Nourish again on the help.

My question is, as I just rerolled from a hunter for WotLK ... Is this something considered a good, efficient rotation for raid healing or there isn't such thing as long as your raid stays alive and the job is done no matter what we use? Or is there something more efficient way of raid healing with the new changes?


Thanks,

C.

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