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Old 01/04/09, 2:00 AM   #91
turlockmike
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Silvermoon
As far as living seed, it seems like a good pvp talent and thats it. I dropped it for my raid healing and it hasn't changed anything at all. In fact, I used the extra points for 4 min CD on tranquility instead which is really really useful at times.

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Old 01/04/09, 6:36 PM   #92
Lightflower
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dath'Remar
My take on the Living Seed issue is to observe that everyone is noticing that it is ~3% of our healing. We already spend 5 talent points to get Master Shapeshifter for the pasive 4% bonus which means that LS as a 3 point expenditure is actually 'better value' than it.

I also feel that the Nourish vs Regrowth debate has been done to death. If you want to weld yourself to 4T7 then Nourish is mathematically superior but until something changes glyph-wise, there really isn't much more to say.

What I would like to talk about please is gearing strategy of haste vs crit. While it's a little hard atm to land spot on the haste soft cap, my strategy has been to use that as the lower limit of my haste, get as close as possible to that value then gear for other stats. Maximising SP is obvious which leads to a reasonable mix of regen & crit.

Do others feel the same or do you think that we should be emphasising haste more since it seems to show greater throughput returns than crit in a situation where mana is not really an issue?

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Old 01/04/09, 8:01 PM   #93
Whïspur
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Crushridge
Originally Posted by turlockmike View Post
As far as living seed, it seems like a good pvp talent and thats it. I dropped it for my raid healing and it hasn't changed anything at all. In fact, I used the extra points for 4 min CD on tranquility instead which is really really useful at times.
Which times? I can't think of a situation where I'd like to tranquility twice in 5 minutes, once in the beginning of the fight and again at the end of the fight for only the people in my group.

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Old 01/04/09, 8:17 PM   #94
George
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Aman'Thul
Past the haste GCD cap both haste and crit add nothing to HoT spells. If your healing breakdown is anything like mine... typically (on 25 man boss fights) 80%+ of my healing comes from rejuv, wildgrowth, lifebloom and swiftmend, neither haste or crit are going to add a huge addition.

I think of it like this, which would I rather when I need to cast direct heals? Landing my direct heals faster or having a chance that they crit and heal for more. Haste is more reliable because it isn't based on a chance and in the event that I do cast a direct heal chances are that I'm doing so because I want fast healing so haste suits that also. Crit on the other hand works with
the talents nature's grace and living seed and landing a crit at the right moment is a great thing.

Having said that I gauge upgrades based on spellpower more than anything else. I'm not going to give up spellpower to swap some haste for crit or vice-versa

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Old 01/04/09, 8:21 PM   #95
turlockmike
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Silvermoon
Tranquility is great for 5 mans more than raids i guess where there is a lot of splash dmg. In raids, its good to have in case of emergencies, and with a 4 min CD it means I can use it more often. I might get living seed after the patch though, because blizz said that its not working properly right now.

Last edited by turlockmike : 01/08/09 at 11:40 PM.

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Old 01/04/09, 9:34 PM   #96
Ploppy
Von Kaiser
 
Ploppy's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Moonglade (EU)
Cooldown aside the thing I really apreciate about imp tranquility is actually the threat reduction. I don´t use it nearly as often as the cooldown permits, but talenting it turns it into a very powerfull "o crap" button. You never need it when things go according to plan, but things don´t always go according to plan. Whenever shit hits the fan its bloody wonderfull to have massive AoE heal on the ready with zero threat attached to it. Most of the time threat isn´t an issue eather, especially not as a healer. But there we have it again, most of the time isn´t every time. The talent makes it reliable for any situation, if you arent being beat upon then nothing will start beating you when you use it. If you ARE being beat upon then the old barkskin+tranc has the same effect as stopping a while not healing to let people grab adds off you exept that you didn´t haveto stop healing. Like haste these points offer reliability.

As a little bonus you get to be a bit lazy when you have the talent as well. You use it on tricky trashpulls before you clear those rooms with a shrug and still not worry about blowing the CD before you might actually need it on a boss. You can get your lazy raid going faster after a wipe by topping them off since you´ll have the CD back in a flash anyway.

Whatever math say about effective healing I´m really a big fan of imp tranquility for other reasons.

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Old 01/04/09, 11:50 PM   #97
red
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Laughing Skull
I would totally agree with what you're saying, except that Tranquility only heals party members; it's not a smart raid heal like CoH or WG. If it were, it would be worth putting points into. Usually the people in my party (healers) need healing less than others in emergency situations.

Last edited by red : 01/05/09 at 3:58 AM.

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Old 01/05/09, 8:31 AM   #98
Raikagi
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
Tranquility is amazing for any 5 man fight that has a lot of AoE damage, Loken for instance, just use it and the fight is essentially reset with everyone topped back up to full. It almost trivialises these fights, bonus points if you manage to use it with a clearcasting. I agree that it should be changed in some way to make it a little more appealing for raids though, I basically never use it because the 5 people in my group are rarely the ones who need healing most, those 8 seconds would be better spent triaging the entire raid.

I'm considering moving points from Replenish to Improved Tranquility myself, not sure if it's worth the respec cost though. Depends on whether I want to keep doing heroics, as I've almost got all the badge gear and drops I need from them, might make going for the achievements a bit easier.

Having said that I gauge upgrades based on spellpower more than anything else. I'm not going to give up spellpower to swap some haste for crit or vice-versa
It boils down to that for me too. For me any haste or crit on my gear is incidental, pretty much all healing items have stam/int/spirit/spellpower plus one of either haste or crit. Unless you're specifically going for one stat over another for whatever reason then chances are both stats will be in roughly equal quantaties on your gear. That works for me because I value both about the same, haste makes heals hit sooner which is always great, and crit synergises fantastically with Living Seed and Natures Grace and serves to make your Regrowth more and more reliable.

Getting a 15k Natures Swiftness Healing Touch crit that procs a 4500 Living Seed when the tank is at 50% or lower is a great feeling too.

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Old 01/05/09, 11:39 AM   #99
Ploppy
Von Kaiser
 
Ploppy's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Moonglade (EU)
Aye aye, would be a true spell of awesomeness if you could heal an entire raid with it. (But would sadly also lead to druid stacking with imp tranquility as a solution to some bosses with predictable massive AoE damage.) But with totems and whatnot being raidwide now I often place myself in the tank group precisely for the reason of giving the tankgroup an extra o shit button. 5-mans is where the talent really shines but I like it a lot for raiding as well.

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Old 01/05/09, 11:44 AM   #100
woodsyresto
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Draka
Newish Healer Questions

I have a 16/0/55 rejuv/regrowth build which I have geared up to 14K health, 13.5K mana, +1900 heals, 188 haste and 606/203 regen. My glyphs are Regrowth/Swift/Innervate. I've run a reasonable number of instances, close to 250 badges, and with a good guild tank and dps group with either a pally or sham I fairly rarely use innervate in any 5 mans so me gear focus is on building haste.

Question 1 - I seem to have problems keeping under geared tanks standing in some 5 mans so am trying to figure out if my spell loading sequence is the best one possible. Typically I cast rejuv just pre pull, then walk in stacking my lifeblooms, then add regrowth. I then just keep the lifeblooms rolling and use swiftmend on little spikes and fall back to natswift/HT if I fall behind. Challenge is with some tanks the initial dmg has them down before I even get to natswift/HT. Is there a better loading sequence in this scenario?

Question 2 - I seem to have problems getting aggro on the pull when healing warrior tanks. Likely because I'm loading HoTs on the tank on the pull but why do I only have this problem with warrior tanks? Can I or they do anything to help mitigate this? Do all the HoTs generate the same aggro?

Question 3 - I don't know the other classes. What stat questions do you ask Pally, Druid and DK tanks to figure out if they are geared for heroics? So far I've just been looking at health with anything under 22K being a warning.....

Hope these questions aren't too basic for this forum.

Noob Healer - trying to get better

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Old 01/05/09, 12:01 PM   #101
Eilt
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Bloodhoof
My tactics:

Q1 - Load your tribloom before the pull, try and refresh the LB stack just before the tank pulls, if you can get tribloom + rejuv up PRE pull it is a great barrier. Once you hace your regrowth up as well I have come to LOVE using nourish to heal spikes at this point. Just keep LB, Rejuv, Regrowth, Wild Growth (if needed) rolling and use nourish to top off the tank if needed.

Q2 - Casting 3 LBs as your warrior pulls will pull extra mobs at you, if you have your tribloom on the MT and refresh it before he pulls, you should not have a problem with him getting the mobs. Just make sure he is using AE threat generators (like Tclap)

Q3 - Skill makes up a lot...Stamina is easy to come by at this point, so just make sure they have a decent amount of avoidance and mitigation. When doing a PuG I always Armory the people before inviting them, you can tell if someone knows the class by the enchants/gems etc. Someone who takes the time to properly enchant and gem will probably be okay even if slighly undergeared.

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Old 01/05/09, 12:58 PM   #102
Ploppy
Von Kaiser
 
Ploppy's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Moonglade (EU)
I have one additional tip to add regarding prestacking HoTs. Since timing is essential spend some time to carefully look at your tank before each pull. No, not at his healthbar. I know thats where us healers tend to rest our eyes the most, but look at his toon. Carefully watch everything he does before a pull. Most tanks have small details in their bodylanguage that can show you precisely when they mean to pull. One of the warriors I play a lot with for example has a tendency to make an ever so small tap forwards before he´s going to charge. Also he does not do this when he´s planning to use his gun to pull. Theres more small details he does too, but you get the idea. So from studying him a lot I can tell both if he plans to charge or use his gun and I know exactly when he´s going to do it and can prehot him just at the right moment. This is one of my best tips I can give as a healer. Takes some learning for each tank but isn´t very hard once you learn what to look for besides obvious preparing spells and abileties.

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Old 01/05/09, 1:20 PM   #103
Maraili
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by George View Post
Past the haste GCD cap both haste and crit add nothing to HoT spells. If your healing breakdown is anything like mine... typically (on 25 man boss fights) 80%+ of my healing comes from rejuv, wildgrowth, lifebloom and swiftmend, neither haste or crit are going to add a huge addition.
Originally Posted by Raikagi View Post
It boils down to that for me too. For me any haste or crit on my gear is incidental, pretty much all healing items have stam/int/spirit/spellpower plus one of either haste or crit. Unless you're specifically going for one stat over another for whatever reason then chances are both stats will be in roughly equal quantaties on your gear. That works for me because I value both about the same, haste makes heals hit sooner which is always great, and crit synergises fantastically with Living Seed and Natures Grace and serves to make your Regrowth more and more reliable.
With such a massive amount of our healing coming from hots, has there been any word that we might (3.1?) get a new talent that functions similar to the Shadow Priest/Affliction Warlock ones that provide extra damage (or in our case healing) on dot (hot) ticks based on your crit chance?

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but I pick up haste to get me to a 1 second GCD for hots and then I really don't care if my gear has haste OR crit on it (with mp5 being the ideal 'extra' stat but there aren't many items set up this way). If I want something to crit, I use Regrowth, and I have enough haste (raid buffs etc etc) that my spells are already casting a good bit faster.

Now granted, I wasn't raiding SWP at the end of TBC (Up to Illidan pre nerf then we cleared first 3 of SWP post nerf), but from what I understand, Shadow Priests and Affliction Warlocks started to fall behind in terms of effectiveness because they scaled from Spellpower effectively and not much else. I just see us being locked into a situation where we have tons of wasted stats on our gear, especially considering that with raid buffs we can already hit a 1 second GCD. Priests, Shamans, and Paladins all make excellent use of both Haste and Crit, while I'm feeling kind of left out in the cold here. I thnk there's been some discussion either in this thread or one of the others that we have better coefficients on our spells and this is supposed to make up for the fact that we aren't scaling on every stat on our gear, but will this truly make up for it in the long run?

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Old 01/05/09, 2:10 PM   #104
Nitz
Don Flamenco
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Ysondre (EU)
You can't compare damage dealing and healing this way. I don't think there is a class that is able to match our throughput once we hit the haste softcap on AoE heavy boss(es ?) whereas SPs and Affliction Warlocks were broken scaling wise and left without encounters with multiple (3+ mobs) where multidotting could be viable. We will never lack targets.

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Old 01/05/09, 2:17 PM   #105
Playered
Soda Popinski
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
There has been nothing confirmed or really spoken about by Blizzard about giving us any form of Crit conversion for our HoTs.

I believe it is their aim for us to use our direct healing spells more often though instead of further enhancing our HoTs (slight PvP issue).
I do not really see a way around this without weakening HoTs further in order to let direct heals become more prominant in our style of healing although giving Nourish some talents might make it more appealing to be used more frequently... doubtful that could do enough to shift the balance.

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