There is little point being in melee for clearcasting procs on normal mode where you have near endless mana thanks to the vapors. Regarding the targets for healing there should be very little raid damage so beyond an occasional WG or a RJ on someone stupid you should be focused on the tank?
There is little point being in melee for clearcasting procs on normal mode where you have near endless mana thanks to the vapors. Regarding the targets for healing there should be very little raid damage so beyond an occasional WG or a RJ on someone stupid you should be focused on the tank?
This man speaks truth. Generally I'll stand in melee range anyways on regular General V since I can whack at the guy to retain mana whereas other healers cannot. Saves you from lifeleaches and having to dance around shadowcrashes. Just make sure your raid leader understands what you're doing and be sure there are enough ranged dps / healers out of range of the melee.
Hey Guys I have a quick question about General. We are going to be starting Hardmodes attempts on Sunday, and obviously there is the option of hitting the boss for clearcasting procs, but if you lifebloom from one of the black spots (sorry do not know the name off the top of my head) I am pretty sure you net gain 11 mana, also if you put two on your tank and then randomly on the rest of the raid till you get a clearcasting, then apply the third to the tank it will be healing for the full value. Can anyone confirm or deny these tactics.
did i get this right: you want to stand in the shadow crash area along with all your range dps? sure, lifebloom will be very checp, but your lifebloom won't heal for much either...
I believe it blooms for the full amount as long as you are outside the crash area when it blooms. If you are insde it will still bloom for a reduced amount.
Thanks all, appreciate the advice. While I've got your attention - when working on hard modes are you generally running with two trees or one? We've had a solid applicant recently and I'm wondering if it makes sense to add a second tree for hard modes. I would imagine it'd allow us to downscale to 4 healers possibly on a fight like Hodir since two HoT-nets would be able to manage the raid damage, for starters. Just curious in general what your heal group makeup looks like as we're just starting heroic hard modes now.
Thanks all, appreciate the advice. While I've got your attention - when working on hard modes are you generally running with two trees or one? We've had a solid applicant recently and I'm wondering if it makes sense to add a second tree for hard modes. I would imagine it'd allow us to downscale to 4 healers possibly on a fight like Hodir since two HoT-nets would be able to manage the raid damage, for starters. Just curious in general what your heal group makeup looks like as we're just starting heroic hard modes now.
Thanks again!
You can easily justify bringing two trees, sometimes even three, to any fight...Hodir included. Two quick notes about Hodir...
First of all its not a straight wg/rj faceroll. Having a net of rj's on the raid is great going into a frozen blow because it allows your DPS to put out a little bit of extra DPS since they don't have to worry about their biting cold stacks as much. Once that frozen blow hits, it becomes in your best interest to find a beam and switch to wg/rg spam, the added haste scales great with regrowth and puts its HPC on par with rj, with the added benefit that half the spell is front loaded.
Second, paladins make the difference between a healer. They do this through bubble/sac or aura mastery, either of these takes the edge off frozen blows and will be a main contributor to dropping down from 5 to 4 healers.
We're playing Hodir hardmode with shaman, holy paladin and 2 holy priests... I think Hodir hardmode is no encounter where your setup is a big deal unless you try it with 4 holy paladins etc.
Bringing a second druid is REALLY great in extremly unpredictable fights (Freya), fights with permenant raid damage or fights that require a lot of movement such as Mimiron hardmode.
Just as a note from experience, there is very little reason for a healer to be in the shadow crash. Yes I know that you can do some neat tricks with a Disc Priest or a druid with the mana return from LB, but in the end you are one more body that is focusing on watching HoT timers and a potential target for mark of the faceless and shadow crashes. Our druid will use OoC procs to toss out a WG on the ranged (if they took some mark of the faceless damage) or use a LB to gain some mana back with each OoC proc. We actually have all of our healers standin in melee range meleeing. Not only is this providing extra damage, but druids see extra benefit because ooc procs more through melee.
As you can see the healers combined for an extra 345k damage, which may not seem like much, but when you see a few 1% wipes you realize it does make a difference.
Another neat trick is if your holy pally runs oom have your druid Innervate themselves and then receive DI fromt he pally. The Innervate will refill your mana quickly while ooc then you click it off and can go all out on healing since you have a full mana bar. Note: you should not have anyone running oom until late in the last phase after the animus is dead or really close to dead.
Not all of the stuff I mentioned may work for your guild, I understand that, just letting you know what works for us. Best of luck!
Just as a note from experience, there is very little reason for a healer to be in the shadow crash. Yes I know that you can do some neat tricks with a Disc Priest or a druid with the mana return from LB, but in the end you are one more body that is focusing on watching HoT timers and a potential target for mark of the faceless and shadow crashes. Our druid will use OoC procs to toss out a WG on the ranged (if they took some mark of the faceless damage) or use a LB to gain some mana back with each OoC proc. We actually have all of our healers standin in melee range meleeing. Not only is this providing extra damage, but druids see extra benefit because ooc procs more through melee.
As you can see the healers combined for an extra 345k damage, which may not seem like much, but when you see a few 1% wipes you realize it does make a difference.
Another neat trick is if your holy pally runs oom have your druid Innervate themselves and then receive DI fromt he pally. The Innervate will refill your mana quickly while ooc then you click it off and can go all out on healing since you have a full mana bar. Note: you should not have anyone running oom until late in the last phase after the animus is dead or really close to dead.
Not all of the stuff I mentioned may work for your guild, I understand that, just letting you know what works for us. Best of luck!
As far as I am aware, the DI innervate trick hasn't worked since they modified how Innervate works. Innervate fell off of me immediately after I cast it when the encounter is in progress....
As far as healers standing in shadow crashes, My guild currently has the Disc priests out there, as the shields will still obsorb all of the damage. When they need to penance the main tank, they step out of the shadowcrash and then back in.
2 or 3 trees is really nice on Vezax hardmode. Stick a rejuv on the main tank, then Clearcast proc innervates to get back to full. If you do end up oom going into p3, you can just OOC proc innervates on the tank and you are fine. You shouldn't have to do much healing p3 as he should die rather quickly after p2 ends, if you have high enough dps that is.
Just as a note from experience, there is very little reason for a healer to be in the shadow crash. Yes I know that you can do some neat tricks with a Disc Priest or a druid with the mana return from LB, but in the end you are one more body that is focusing on watching HoT timers and a potential target for mark of the faceless and shadow crashes. Our druid will use OoC procs to toss out a WG on the ranged (if they took some mark of the faceless damage) or use a LB to gain some mana back with each OoC proc. We actually have all of our healers standin in melee range meleeing. Not only is this providing extra damage, but druids see extra benefit because ooc procs more through melee.
If you can help it, you should try to always use your OoC procs for Lifebloom unless the situation is absolutely dire since it's always a gain of ~220 mana. If the ranged needs a WG, then usually they can wait the GCD for me to hit the tank (or if you're lucky with procs and the tank already has a 3-stack, one of the ranged) with LB before I throw a WG to them.
Recently a lot of the Top Raid Resto Druids have put 2 Points into Naturalist. Why?
It's more to do with NOT putting two points into Subtlety. This is in order to be enable a Tree to be top on passive aggro for the Constellation adds during the Algalon encounter. Many guilds assign the task of kiting them into black holes to the Tree, since they can heal and kite at the same time.
Personally, I'm undecided as to whether it actually is the best method.
It's more to do with NOT putting two points into Subtlety. This is in order to be enable a Tree to be top on passive aggro for the Constellation adds during the Algalon encounter. Many guilds assign the task of kiting them into black holes to the Tree, since they can heal and kite at the same time.
Personally, I'm undecided as to whether it actually is the best method.
What would you say is the best method then? I'm one of those speccing 2/5 Naturalist (oh how I wish I could put those points into something useful instead), but in general terms I'd rather have Subtlety* - if theres an alternative method you'd like to suggest, I want to hear it!
*I passed our third tank's threat on Steelbreaker the other week, which did not end well for me
It's more to do with NOT putting two points into Subtlety. This is in order to be enable a Tree to be top on passive aggro for the Constellation adds during the Algalon encounter. Many guilds assign the task of kiting them into black holes to the Tree, since they can heal and kite at the same time.
Personally, I'm undecided as to whether it actually is the best method.
I dropped down to 2 points in Subtlety last night. It wasn't a full raid night for me, but we did Yogg+3 and I noticed an increase in snap-aggro from the adds in that fight. We went to Algalon-10 and I felt like I was aggroing the constellations less than other weeks with the same healer and raid comp. Why that happened I am not sure, probably had something to do with it being really late and my healing being fairly crappy. Not as much pro-active HoT casting on the raid. Next time I will try with 0/3 Subtlety to see if it makes a difference. Unfortunately the two points end up being wasted just to move on to the rest of the talent tree.
Originally Posted by Eddyqw
What would you say is the best method then? I'm one of those speccing 2/5 Naturalist (oh how I wish I could put those points into something useful instead), but in general terms I'd rather have Subtlety* - if theres an alternative method you'd like to suggest, I want to hear it!
If our group continues to have problems with healing output while kiting constellations, we might move to a dps/tank pulling method. Maybe have two ranged dps pick up one constellation each and try to dps-aggro them. The tank that isn't currently targeted by Algalon can taunt the other, or a DK can grip it into a position. Whether or not that is best probably depends on the players in the group.
Personally, I'm undecided as to whether it actually is the best method.
At least it's a method that works for most of the top raid guilds in 10 men. I think especially in 10 men it's the best method since letting your ranged dps deal with the constellations will cause some serious problems with the enrage.
In our guild me and the second tank deal with one or two constellations between each Big Bang and it work fine.
At least it's a method that works for most of the top raid guilds in 10 men. I think especially in 10 men it's the best method since letting your ranged dps deal with the constellations will cause some serious problems with the enrage.
In our guild me and the second tank deal with one or two constellations between each Big Bang and it work fine.
I was mostly questioning making a druid kite the Constellations, not the 0/3 Subtlety to get aggro (which DEFINITELY helps get aggro on Consts).
If you are having trouble keeping aggro, even with 0/3 Sub, you need to also make sure your Holy Priests are spec'd into their threat reduce talent.
I haven't actually killed Algalon yet, so I'm not the best source, but I have watched several videos that show healers basically ignoring Constellations and where they are aggro'd, while the "off" tank taunts one here and there into the holes.
It's also worth noting that the Constellations aggro target is NOT who they hit. Their Arcane Barrage attack is random, so it is in everyone's best interest to keep no more than 2 or so up. Again, I disclaim that I have only recently worked this stuff out and plan to put it to the test this week, Raid Leader permitting.
Hey Guys I have a quick question about General. We are going to be starting Hardmodes attempts on Sunday, and obviously there is the option of hitting the boss for clearcasting procs, but if you lifebloom from one of the black spots (sorry do not know the name off the top of my head) I am pretty sure you net gain 11 mana, also if you put two on your tank and then randomly on the rest of the raid till you get a clearcasting, then apply the third to the tank it will be healing for the full value. Can anyone confirm or deny these tactics.
I only have experience with 10man, but I am going to assume that the princip counts for 25man aswell.
Before mastering this fight I on these forums read that the entire first phase of the fight it should be possible for a Disc priest to keep the tank alive; that wasn't the case for my guild, we had the tank taking a lot more damage than a disc priest could manage alone.
What my guild learned could make this fight easier for healing are the following things:
Keeping Rejuv up on the tank is really amazing healing, and I would think much better than an unreliable Lifebloom final heal.
Enh. shamans are very godly for this fight with 4 set bonus spamming heals on the tank, it is a dps loss but we have had a enh shaman close to topping the meters because of this.
Feral druid aura and paladin debuff on the boss helps a bit with the healing. We however are not using the paladin instant heal because it doesn't seem worth it.
Make an agreement with the other healers when who heals. Fx Disc priest will use Penance when the tank is at 50% and you(resto druid) use swiftmend below that.
At times I haven't gotten any Clearcast procs for a very long time, keeping Rejuv up none the less seems very importent, and we usually still manage to finish off the boss with me on 10-20% mana.
You should of cause find tactics for how to avoid the raid taking any damage etc.
What would you say is the best method then? I'm one of those speccing 2/5 Naturalist (oh how I wish I could put those points into something useful instead), but in general terms I'd rather have Subtlety* - if theres an alternative method you'd like to suggest, I want to hear it!
Without being able to confirm the effectiveness of this method; my guild is going to try the following: I(resto druid) will stand in melee and have the Constellations come to me. And then have the offtank get aggro on them and pull them to a Black Hole. We will be trying this tactic out the upcoming reset and I will get back to you on how successful it is.
Btw. I am running with 3/3 in Subtlety and I none the less always seem to have all the Constellations on me.
You could just have your OT dealing with the Constellations after he switched from tanking as he doesn't really have anything else to do for a while. I guess it depends on how you manage the Collapsing Stars but honestly it's not like you need to have someone specific to do the job with Constellations. If they all happen to have agro on you and there are no holes close you can move closer to one to help but you don't always need to close them all yourself or have a specific person (or two) to "tank" them.
Granted I haven't killed Algalon 25 yet but the basis of our method seems fine with letting the OT manage it all (for the most part) as generally DPS is what is holding us back from the kill not tactics on Stars/Constellations.
I spec 0/3 subtlety for Algalon, and I put the 2 points in Furor. I bet the 2 points in Naturalist make for some SICK Vezax dps though. It really doesn't matter where you put the points as long as it's not in Subtlety. Tanks can handle the Constellations and it works great - the advantage to also having a druid with no threat reduction is that they tend to glue to me. This means when a Big Bang is imminent, there are no bouncing constellations (or at least only 1), This means less RNG closure of holes you might not want closed at that time.
Edit: I do not find the loss of Subtlety to be an issue on any fight. I may occasionally ask for a preemptive HoP as we pull Auriaya if I'm stacking HoTs, but it feels largely unnecessary. The only time I've gotten punched in the face is Yogg with 1 Keeper up during a silence. But that was still somewhat my fault as I could have put some distance between myself and the mob so that the tanks could more easily pick it up when the silence ended.
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Hi, first sorry for my english, i'm french, and french schools suxx :x
How do you think to set glyph innervate at 3.2 ? You can gain a full mana bar every three minuts, so give the second to another healer instead of which glyph ? I still don't know.
What's within you the mains changes about stuff and template at the 3.2 ? I think to pve it's better to get a heal raid template and a heal one target template.
How is everybody thinking about speccing for 3.2? I was considering dropping NG and using those points to spend on Emp. Touch and Tranquil spirit or just keeping NG and putting my floater point in Emp. Touch. I can't seem to make up my mind. With the buffs to Nourish might be nice to have full ET, but probably have to give up NG for it :/. I suppose it doesn't make a huge difference either way.
07/23/09, 5:51 PM
