yeah, i have very little mp5 of note on my gear, its all spirit and intellect. I have already started doing your suggestion of using innervate early. i find myself using it two times a fight sometimes, but that worries me because i NEVER used to innervate EVER maybe once a raid night, and it was probably in IC 25man if i did. and i am one of the tank healers when we do general v, so if i cant fix it, im going to be in trouble :-(

Unless you're doing hard mode it really isn't an issue either way.

How many healers are people bringing to their raids these days? We've been running with 5 but I wonder if that's why my mana always seems tighter then I imagine all of your mana is.

If you have issues as a resto druid with mana regeneration and usage I think you should first check what spells you use most. Nourish for instance drains your mana pretty fast if you spam it. If you refresh lifebloom instead of letting it bloom, you might also be in trouble. I've never had mana issues, sometimes in a few hardmodes. But I always let my lifeblooms bloom and use the cheapest spells. I use nourish too, but not much. I have no MP5 on my gear and always make use of my spirit. I can only advice to check WWS stats, and if that's not the issue, try and get more spirit. I do feel that since the spirit nerf it has become harder not to go oom, but druids still have a pretty good mana regen in stead of some other healing classes.

If you're not doing hardmodes, you're not playing the same game. There is just no way around it, and discussing mana situations or spell usages or whatnot is nearly pointless when it's the playing field is so different. I'm not trying to be patronizing here, it's just how it is.

You aren't considering raid buffs, with a moonkin or retribution paladin and wrath of air totem you need 541 haste rating in order to drop one point in GotEM which is quite obtainable with ulduar gear and crafts.

I don't understand why people maintain this stance. Has anyone checked the regen on Shaman these days? Do you often see the priests in your raid going oom? How about the Paladins? Even though their regen got nerfed they still never go oom.

Not only does our resident Resto Shaman have a way larger mana pool, his MP5 is higher as well. In addition he gets mana back from Crits. So do Paladins, and their mana pool is huge too. Priests are in the same boat with larger mana pools and of course they have the shadowfiend.

Druids regen is fine, but it isn't "better then everyone else's." In fact I'd say we're towards the bottom of the four classes. The only reason we don't have real mana issues is because of Innervate. That or you're bringing too many healers, or not doing content challenging enough.

My guild does run hardmodes, in udluar we usually run 6 healers and in ten man we do 2 or 3. Rejuv is my most used spell, followed by WG and then probably LB. The only time i ever reroll LB instead of letting it bloom is on the MT when i know he is taking extremely heavy damage and the time to get another x3 stack back up might be too risky. Like i said earlier, i never used to innervate. and now im having trouble at least in ToC, but you are right, this is probably because i am using nourish more in that fight. Ulduar should be the same as ever hopefully.

As to our regen, mine is at about 600mp5 while casting fully buffed. This used to be at least, substantial enough to keep everything comfortable. though i have 23k mana buffed, and our holy pally has 30k...there is a big difference there.

In my experience druid regeneration is superior to paladin, doubly so after patch 3.2. Yes - you might need to use your own innervate but with that factored in you are certainly no worse off than a holy priest.

My point wasn't that we are in a bad place, just that we are not like we were before the Spirit nerf. Druids never went oom. This is not the case anymore. We are at best on par with other classes, and in my opinion below Shaman.

In some fights like algalon, and especially algalon 25, raid takes punctuals damages, high damages, and you need to heal the raid very fast (sparks kill), so nourrish or regrowth are compulsories. And you must put rejuv on everybody before spark is kill to use swiftmend if is necessary. That a gameplay which cost a lot of mana, so, i think on this fights we can switch glyph of rejuv by glyph of innervate, and think that's the important isn't to be first on recount but prevent that someone die.

(sry for my english boy'z)

Having mained a Holy Paladin and a Resto Druid in Ulduar, the on character screen mp5 shows druids have more regen yes. Divine Plea and seal of wisdom are highly underated if you want to say that druids superior. DP during greatness proc's. the extra mp5 from replenish from bigger mana pools. Hitting the boss for SICK seal of wisdom proc's. My pally gets over 1k mana each swing, which is about 1.1 speed. Just because their regen doesn't show it on character screen, they have great ways of getting mana back.

As far as healers go, our guild runs 5 healers, 3 heal hodir. I glyph innervate because I give mine away. I also sacrifice about 100 SP by wearing spark of hope over a SP trinket so I can give my innervate away. I have ended fights with under 20% mana this way, but giving an innervate to a priest or shaman seems to be working out well, as they have roles to fill, like heal the tank, as mine is just "heal the raid".

I think that for a long time, druid innervate was considered a tool that you could (or should) provide to others as they needed it. Other classes have their own tools such as shadowfiend, and now the balance is such that in hardmodes or when things go south the druid needs innervate for their own mana regen. When it's an easier load, you can also provide that regen to another caster which makes it a more versatile tool, and with a 3 minute cooldown it's great.

I've found Nourish pretty effective now with talent and mechanics changes, rolling HoTs on the raid and then dropping a fast Nourish to counter what seems to be spike damage designed to provide you just the situation with which to cast it.

I've also found the innervate glyph and regen trinkets handy, but the last couple runs I've just gotten used to hitting innervate on myself and the mana use seems to be spot on.

I agree with you that other classes have extremely good mechanics of getting mana back, and in most cases seem to have less issues then Druids with mana during some of the hardmode fights. But if we talk about mana regen solely, Druids are still really good. Never in my post did I make a comment about other mechanics or other ways of getting mana back, like for instance a paladin does, or a shaman using water shield. Just wanted to make this clear.

I don't really miss the times where we never had mana issues to be honest. You could spam anything on anyone and get away with it. On hard modes, we now have to be at least a bit careful with our mana, which makes our class at least a bit more challenging.

So I've just come back to game after leaving not too long after WOTLK came out, and I see a lot more people running 3/3 Revitalize and no longer running 3/3 Celestial Focus for the straight haste boost. At my arsed gear level (heroic/2p 7.5 gear) is it still worth it to get the full haste? Keep in mind my raiding is nil beyond 10 mans until I can gear up and get back into the rhythm.

I guess my point is, is there definitive theorycraft to support losing 3% haste for the revit regen, or is it just a matter of feel?

The general consensus is that the 3% haste isn't good enough for what you give up. Not only do you drop the 3 more points in balance for the talent itself, but you have to waste 2 additional points to reach that tier as well. While the gains from from revitalize are fairly meagre, you also have to take into account that you also have two extra points to use, which most would drop in the new Empowered Touch, as opposed to 3.1 where those two points were fairly expendable. So, that's why people aren't really using CF. That, and the people you're checking up on are probably haste soft capped or close to it, so CF would be even worse and then a no-brainer.

Clearly our experiences are different. On my druid pretty much the only thing I needed to have enough mana for hardmodes was Spark of Hope (I did grab most decent socket bonuses and use the regen meta, though). On paladin I had 2x regen trinkets and intellect for every slot and still could get nowhere near chaincasting (let alone talking about infinite mana). Paladin regen since then took a much bigger hit.

For those considering dropping GotEM, the OP here has a nice chart of haste ratings required for the 1sec GCD with various raid buffs. Some of the content on that post may be outdated, but the haste ratings should still be accurate.

Regarding mana regen across healing classes, some class tools have penalties associated with them, whereas innervate is (unless dispelled) guaranteed to be effective. Not only that, it is flexible in that you can apply it to another target should you not need the mana.

For a paladin, Seal of Wisdom is (I believe) a PPM mechanic - it does not proc off of every hit; melee swinging also means you cannot be healing and spell casting will reset your melee swing timer. It also (obviously) requires you to be in melee range of a target - this takes time, and is not always feasible. DP is also a 50% healing reduction for the duration - it can, of course, be cancelled, but then you need to wait another minute for it to come off cooldown.

Shadowfiends may be killed by AoE, and while the glyph helps supplement this problem somewhat, it's not always a reliable tool to use.

Once again my experience differs. The only real thing I needed on druid to survive all hardmodes was to not completely forget innervate and to use Spark of Hope. On paladin I needed two regen trinkets (and full regen gemming) and in order to not lose tanks had to be extremely careful with timing Divine Plea (and never could quite get to where tanks wouldn't at least occasionally die due to divine plea healing reduction). Experiences may vary but mine has been that paladin mana is much more sensitive to mistakes and that mana management is a much bigger part of the gameplay.

Other than me being really unexperienced (which I am by the way) I was wondering why I am always, in raids, bottom on the healing but top on the overhealing?

My Armory is: The World of Warcraft Armory

I am looking at getting the [Pattern: Wispcloak] instead of [Kurisu's Indecision] as I thought the second one was better but it doesn't have the mana regen and the hit rating means nothing to a healer. I really need to get better and this is the best place to be asking. I was wondering if someone could kind of "take me under their wing" and just explain where I am going on?

I generally do Single Target healing or up to Two Target healing, and I keep Lifebloom up on both, with Rejuvenation and Regrowth on both. I am better at Single Target healing, and I just do the same rotation. What should I be improving?

Thanks in advance,

Since 3.2 your hot now count as over healing, Before when the target was full HP the hot was simply just not ticking.
If you are first in Over heal because of the hot you casting, you do nothing wrong.

And yes take the MP5 cloak only if you think you need more mana regen.

The thing is, I was in a group with another Resto Druid, who did have much better gear than me, but he was top of the healing, and bottom of the overhealing. He seemed to be doing nothing different than me, so is it just gear?

You should probably provide some parse.

Better gear usually means more overhealing, because RJ ticks X times. You can't stop it from ticking
Your RJ need 5/X ticks to cover the healing needed
His/Her RJ just need 3/X ticks to cover the healing.

This means his/her RJ has 2 more ticks into overheal (which are even more powerfull than yours).

But perhaps the other druid is playing GHT and isn't using hots at all?