In any heroics, I can run around like crazy and never go oom, I don't even need innervate. At some bosses I even end up at 90% mana.
In raids, however, it's completely different. I usually oom in the first 1-2 minutes of the fight. So I'm just curious - what's other resto druids healing "tactic" in raids? Do you use rejuv/lb or just spam WG and Nourish/Regrowth? Or is it normal to oom so fast?-.-
(In armory it's not the raid gear I use, I usually switch egg for Alch stone and legguards for Earthgiving and bracers for some blues with more +spi. So my mp5 in raids is about 320-350 self-buffed, is it really not enough?)
In any heroics, I can run around like crazy and never go oom, I don't even need innervate. At some bosses I even end up at 90% mana.
In raids, however, it's completely different. I usually oom in the first 1-2 minutes of the fight. So I'm just curious - what's other resto druids healing "tactic" in raids? Do you use rejuv/lb or just spam WG and Nourish/Regrowth? Or is it normal to oom so fast?-.-
(In armory it's not the raid gear I use, I usually switch egg for Alch stone and legguards for Earthgiving and bracers for some blues with more +spi. So my mp5 in raids is about 320-350 self-buffed, is it really not enough?)
I think it may be helpful if you told us what you do in raids, and what the healing lineup is like, along with their assignments. A WWS link would be very helpful as well for troubleshooting.
My guild isn't raiding atm, so I'm usually either joining pugs (for 10-man Nax and OS/VoA) or raiding guilds invite me to help out (for 25-man Nax), so can't really say the setup and assignments. In 25-mans I'm usually on raid heals with 2 more healers + helping out on OT. Only WWS I have is from Patchwerk, but it's completely useless with my question, I think.
What I mostly want to know is the healing "tactics" of others - as in most/least used spells and etc.
The same as it has always been:
1) Roll LB/RJ/RG on your MT (or assigned tank) - there are very few occasions where not doing this is a smart option.
Then either:
2a) Roll the same on additional tanks.
or
2b) Raid heal with whichever spell suits the occasion best (RJ, RG, WG, LB).
or
2c) Supplement your MT (or assigned tank) healing with Nourish or Regrowth (with 4T7 Nourish is slightly better).
Its all variable based on how many healers you use, what classes they are, how good they are, which boss you are doing, what tactic you are using, relative gear level.. and so forth.
Another question, if you have three resto druids in a raid vs. Patchwerk 25man, is the best strat to roll all three hots on all three tank targets? If there is a different strat, please explain it.
My guild has tried it both ways, and I personally like to keep up hots on all the tanks. Sometimes I'll get assigned to heal one tank, and then I have spammed Nourish between keeping up hots. Regrowth/HT doesn't seem like a bad idea because it's not as mana intensive, but it also seems like there is more room for wasted heals, imo.
My guild has tried it both ways, and I personally like to keep up hots on all the tanks. Sometimes I'll get assigned to heal one tank, and then I have spammed Nourish between keeping up hots. Regrowth/HT doesn't seem like a bad idea because it's not as mana intensive, but it also seems like there is more room for wasted heals, imo.
I double that. You should be able to roll hots on all tanks for maximum efficiency. Have a shaman spamming CH, 2 druids rolling hots and one direct healer per target and you have a dead patchwerk.
I'm using Healing Touch as my main (and only) direct heal, glyphed and fully talented of course. I like it alot, works perfect with my style of healing. I'm not quite sure how to spend my last talent points though. I'm chosing between 3/3 Nature's Grace, 3/3 Natural Perfection and 3/3 Living Seed right now, where I can spend 6 points. I'm using Living Seed and Natural Perfection right now, though I have no idea what-so-ever how much my Living Seed actually heals for in raids.
And another thing: When can, or even should I, take points out of Naturalist as I get more haste? I'm at 0.9 sec casting time right now with around 365 haste rating. Yes I do know about the global cooldown and how it works! That is also why I still consider to get 3/3 Nature's Grace - seeing someone taking damage and within 0.5 seconds I've healed them back to full is really neat. Anyone with experience got any tips or ideas?
I'd suggest (if you're not going for CF in balance) picking up NG and Natural Perfection, to boost your HT a lil bit more - however, the NG proc is not THAT beneficial imo - you've already got a fast, hardhitting heal, if you make it that much faster it's not really going to be a HUGE benefit.
Having said that, I agree, the 0.4-0.5 second HT that keeps the OT alive when he gets Frost Blasted by KT with 20% left while the other healers charge their huge heals up... it feels awesome.
I'd recommend this talent spec. It seems to fit nicely with your "playstyle". If all you want to do is spam FoL then atleast do your raid group a favor and reroll a class that has FoL (and blessings, auras, and judgements). The last time spamming HT was the premiere healing strategy for druids was like 1.12 or something.
Why hit food is bad
"You have to spend 10 seconds to apply it, you have to fish it and you cant use the feast."
I'm getting really frustated with my WWS numbers versus another druid with the direct-heal playstyle. Here is one example (I wanted to post our Saph/KT kills from last night but they're not up yet and I'm obsessing over this atm):
Ignoring that our DPS was doing badly and dying (we're still learning; this is only our third full clear) and I was dps-ing on the last Thaddius fight and our other druid healer's computer was broken and so he was playing on a laptop ....... Could everyone look at boss fights for me (Aamaretto) and Krete?
Here's my frustration:
If he's not spamming WG (which I really try to stay far from on boss fights because of the impending 6s CD - I do a lot on trash but just because it's trivial and hots get overwritten otherwise), he's tossing out Regrowth nearly exclusively. Last night when we did our first Saph attempt, I did a lot more HPS with a paladin healer also on raid healing. Then the paladin got booted and they brought in Krete. My HPS plummeted and his went up compared to mine.
My raid healing is Rejuv's and Lifeblooms, and I usually try to keep rolling hots on the tank. If there's a big couple hits and people are getting low, I'll use WG and sometimes if someone is looking really low and another aoe is incoming, I use swiftmend and regrowth. I try to use my whole arsenal of spells - I'm even saving DKP for my headpiece so that Nourish can become a larger part of my rotation.
I'm frustrated because 1) I feel like our greatest strengths are our ability to spread healing across the raid and to be mobile with instant casts, 2) he's overhealing my hots by doing all this direct healing, thus drastically cutting back on my benefit (and he's a druid and should know better!), and 3) he's outshining me on the HPS meters with only slightly better gear. If I should go glyph up for Regrowth and spam it, then I guess I will.
Someone just tell me that HPS meters don't matter? But in the end, if he's doing that much HPS, then maybe his method is better. It's about getting the job done, right?
Someone just tell me that HPS meters don't matter? But in the end, if he's doing that much HPS, then maybe his method is better. It's about getting the job done, right?
HPS (or DPS for that matter) meters matter only as a diagnostic tool. The person who tops meters isn't the best healer simply because some classes aren't set up to top meters. For instance, a lot of discipline priest healing for example is invisible due to PW:S, or implicit due to increased mitigation from inspiration procs. Even a stellar discipline priest will generally be dead last in effective healing done -- this doesn't mean discipline priests are awful to bring. Some classes will shine in healing (or dps) on some fights and be substandard on others.
About your Thaddius fight: you have too many healers. Thaddius 25 can be healed by basically 2 healers (see my WWS link). If you have too many healers for a given fight then relative healing % is meaningless since it becomes a race for who can heal the damage first (a race the Regrowth spammer will generally win). It is only when you have barely enough healing resources does it start to matter whether you do something one dimensional like spam Regrowth or do something more varied like use all the spells a druid has.
I am linking our last Naxx 25 clear which was done with 3 resto druids, 1 holy priest, and later a holy paladin who joined for the last few fights. Since there were a lot of druids, perhaps it will be helpful to have it as a way of comparing notes.
The Kel'Thuzad kill, in particular, I think shows that a variable spell strategy can do better than a Regrowth heavy strategy if you have barely enough healing and the fight doesn't favor direct healing. (Of course we didn't have any Regrowth spammers in that raid per se, even druids who used Regrowth a lot also used other spells).
Someone just tell me that HPS meters don't matter? But in the end, if he's doing that much HPS, then maybe his method is better. It's about getting the job done, right?
I'm in a similar position as I mentioned a few posts back. A new Druid in the raid has a drastically different play style, much like the one you describe. At first I was shocked because I saw all these Regrowths all over the raid. Then I stepped back and saw that we killed the bosses, so in the end it didn't matter. He didn't complain about going OoM and I had no trouble as usual, so all's well that ends well.
I usually keep my meters on DPS and ignore HPS, Healing Done and generally only look at Overhealing. I'm usually at or very near the bottom on overhealing and that is how I judge myself. Of course, I like to be on top, but if any Druid beats the CoH Priest then I can smile. Sometimes its good to celebrate with your fellow than try to beat them all the time.
Blizzard has really worked hard to create many options for the same activity. I feel it is wrong at the very least to condemn one play style as rubbish and lift one up as the best hands down simply because we did it that way in patch x.y.z.
If the bosses go down and you aren't going broke on consumables, then sit back, relax and enjoy the game.
As several have pointed out already, looking at any type of healing is sort of useless. You're not going to find anything valid out of who healed the most because it's situational on the fight and what they're assigned to heal. Overhealing is just as pointless because your HoTs don't overheal if they tick while the target is full. It's especially true if you're finding that you're not going out of mana.
I think some of you are overemphasizing the #s put into WWS. It's a great diagnostic tool if you were comparing DPS (where the numbers were pretty consistent in percentage of damage done) but when looking at healing, it's just a comparison of e-peen. Trying to figure out each player's style is sort of inane, especially now when the encounters are so entry-level.
If I were you Aamaretto, I'd be more concerned that Krete had 14 decurses during all your bosses (compared to your 53) more than anything and seems to have died before you each attempt (albeit it a bit afterwards).
RG spam may work for some fights, but it seems to be counter-intuitive for me. For fights like Saph, I'm surprised your other druids spam RG. It is the fire-and-forget fight for RJ. Given that there's a lot of instant raid AoE damage and decurses ready to pop at any minute, the last thing I want to be doing is be stuck standing and casting while a blizzard drops on top of me as he's draining life.
As several have pointed out already, looking at any type of healing is sort of useless. You're not going to find anything valid out of who healed the most because it's situational on the fight and what they're assigned to heal. Overhealing is just as pointless because your HoTs don't overheal if they tick while the target is full. It's especially true if you're finding that you're not going out of mana.
I think some of you are overemphasizing the #s put into WWS. It's a great diagnostic tool if you were comparing DPS (where the numbers were pretty consistent in percentage of damage done) but when looking at healing, it's just a comparison of e-peen. Trying to figure out each player's style is sort of inane, especially now when the encounters are so entry-level.
If I were you Aamaretto, I'd be more concerned that Krete had 14 decurses during all your bosses (compared to your 53) more than anything and seems to have died before you each attempt (albeit it a bit afterwards).
RG spam may work for some fights, but it seems to be counter-intuitive for me. For fights like Saph, I'm surprised your other druids spam RG. It is the fire-and-forget fight for RJ. Given that there's a lot of instant raid AoE damage and decurses ready to pop at any minute, the last thing I want to be doing is be stuck standing and casting while a blizzard drops on top of me as he's draining life.
In addition, it doesn't make sense to let people get low enough so they can benefit from the full direct heal component of Regrowth when you can keep a Rejuv on them and never let them get lower than maybe minus 1k. Perhaps the burst-risk on Sapphiron isn't that big and people running around with 70% isn't such a huge risk, but it's not good practice in any situation in my opinion.
RG spam may work for some fights, but it seems to be counter-intuitive for me. For fights like Saph, I'm surprised your other druids spam RG. It is the fire-and-forget fight for RJ. Given that there's a lot of instant raid AoE damage and decurses ready to pop at any minute, the last thing I want to be doing is be stuck standing and casting while a blizzard drops on top of me as he's draining life.
Spam is one thing and heavy usage is another. I've sometimes used a high amount of RG on Sapph for example without much issue because the HoT is always going to do a hefty amount of healing.. and because RJ alone is not enough.
Combine that with WG tending to be somewhat inferior beyond post ice-block and melee healing well... your only other option is to throw LBs off on people and quite honestly I almost never use LB for raid healing anymore due to the general changes to the spell in 3.0.
I think I'm also very surprised at his heavy usage of Regrowth because I find that every time I cast a Regrowth, it seems that one of the paladins or a shaman has beat me to it with their faster-cast spells. Now, that is on trash, since I focus on putting out the most number of Rejuv's (and decurses; thank you for pointing that out) that I can on Saph, which spreads the healing across the raid. Obviously it works for him on bosses, so I kept wondering if maybe that was the right way to go about healing.
I knew I was focusing in on healing numbers too much, but it makes me nervous when someone is blowing my numbers out of the water. I'm afraid the raid leader may see that and say, "What's going on with Aamaretto?" And I wouldn't have had an answer for him. But now I do!
Besides all that I find Naxxramas a bad place to look at healing meters since it's so easy. We did a 2x 20-man achievement the other week and our group had to quit halfway because of the lag. When we tried to continue, we couldn't get the same 20 people in the raid and the other half of the guild was saved, so we ended up doing half of the instance (Abo wing, 4H, Loatheb and Frostwyrm Lair) with 4 healers. I guess you could do the entire instance with 3 healers even since it still wasn't a challenge at all.
Now, if you run with 6 or more healers all you do is fight amongst each other to top player X off first. This is entirely different from healing in the end of TBC, where it actually mattered how many healers you brought and you had to stick to your assignment much more in order to beat the encounter.
In the end, healing meters aren't about who is best. I'd focus more on keeping your assignments alive and not fucking up on stupid things like not walking out of void zones and things like that. That being said, I think you could dish out more healing by keeping up Lifebloom on the tank. It's 1 gcd per 10 seconds but it increases your healing done tremendously.
If he's not spamming WG (which I really try to stay far from on boss fights because of the impending 6s CD - I do a lot on trash but just because it's trivial and hots get overwritten otherwise), he's tossing out Regrowth nearly exclusively.
On your first and third Saph attempts he did throw out twice as many WG's as you. Looking at his numbers on attempts 1 & 3, Krete seems to be just casting RG when someone is too low and spamming WG the rest of the time (hence his low over heal %). What I've found to be the problem with this tactic, is you get BIG numbers on the meters, but the heals are not necessarily going where they are needed. So, his big numbers can either serve as decent cushioning for the more targeted healing, or just detrimental to the raid's survivability. Don't ask yourself, why is he healing so much with RG? Rather ask, why is the raid getting low enough for the RG's to be such a high % of effective heal?
You decurse more, die less quickly, and use more spells. I'd be happy to have you in my raid. I'd try to keep an LB stack up on your tank; that would close the gap you're seeing.
I tend to move a lot on Saph. With Blizzards seeming to follow me around and the raid so spread out I generally use LB to raid heal and I run through groups of ppl on purpose and WG myself as I go by. I prefer LB to RJ in this case as inadvertantly healing the same person again while LB is on them will not go to waste and will double their LB ticks. I will use the occasional RG to top up someone who has been missed and I always WG myself when I'm hiding behind the ice block. WG seems to be decent for the melee as they are all bunched up behind the boss and I'll top up LB+RJ+RG on the MT when he's in range. Also, decursing is better than a heal so I try to be on top of that with the mages.
I've also been trying to impose the 6 sec cooldown on myself so that I won't have to adjust for the patch.
I tend to move a lot on Saph. With Blizzards seeming to follow me around and the raid so spread out I generally use LB to raid heal and I run through groups of ppl on purpose and WG myself as I go by. I prefer LB to RJ in this case as inadvertantly healing the same person again while LB is on them will not go to waste and will double their LB ticks. I will use the occasional RG to top up someone who has been missed and I always WG myself when I'm hiding behind the ice block. WG seems to be decent for the melee as they are all bunched up behind the boss and I'll top up LB+RJ+RG on the MT when he's in range. Also, decursing is better than a heal so I try to be on top of that with the mages.
I've also been trying to impose the 6 sec cooldown on myself so that I won't have to adjust for the patch.
Just go around and throw rejuv at 15 people, it's retard proof and you will own the healing metter
As Norfair has stated Naxx is Karazhan level for most guilds. 6 healers is too much as I keep saying to my guild. We did patchwerk with 4 healers only and this week we will try 3. Even I had to spec moonkin for dps and we got a 2'50" kill. We try to make it down to 2.30 this week.
The only 2 combats where I really have to think and fine tune my gear/spec and play style was Sartharion 3 Drake (2 drakes is really easy but 3 drakes is challange to say the least) and Malygos. On Malygos a druid healer is not a must but makes the encounter very easy. Just pop reju all around before he throws you up in the air and spam WG in air.
Also its really challenging to do 10 man Nax with two healers. Up to Sapphiron and Kel-Thuzad its OK but Sapphiron and Kel-Thuzad is hard and I used the innervate Glyph rather that LB for those occasions.
Now with changes 3.08 LB is again useable. Bliz shot LB in the feet and now is trying to save it. The spirit trinket [Majestic Dragon Figurine] is really valuable in 10 Man Sapphiron and Kel-Thuzad where mana is really an issue and helps a lot in 25 man harder combats like Malygos and Sartharion 3 drake. As you are almost always in 5sr the benefits of Majestic Dragon is immense.
Also I have been trying this spec Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft last week and looks like a decent build. The points in Living Seed is pretty moot as almost always when regrowth crits its partially overhealed (especially in 25 mans) and points in replenish are pretty useless. Here is the link to one of the combats that you actually spam Reju Wow Web Stats) and see the results of replenish here Wow Web Stats. As you can see the mana return is really laughable and as healers usually heal themselves and you put reju to dmg taking classes such as locks rogues and mages, the returns are very small for the 3 points spent. So instead I removed my 2 points from tranquilty added them with the said 6 points of Living Seed and Replenish and used them with Healing Touch Talents. Now after a Regrowth crit I can do like 1,5s Healing touch heals with 12k non crit in 5 man. I guess with 25 man buffs non crit Healing touch will be like 14k. I find this to be better suited to my play style. I neglected LB rolling in all Naxx due to Nax being easy on tanks and 6 healers racing with each other to top anyone that takes any damage. Now with changes its back to LB rolling again with glyph talents and the LB idol.
I'm very happy with my druid as a healer and I will be content to complete WoW as resto if it finishes one day. What I notice also is that most people don't like their charactersmuch and keep rolling new classes and never get to be expert at what they do. A good rogue or a good lock is as irreplaceable as a good healer or tank. Try to be that good one.
...have been trying this spec Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft last week...
This looks like a nice build to have, especially used as you mentioned it, Silkworm. Might be I'll try that one out myself. After using Living Seed and Replenish for a while, I'm very unsatisfied with it. Although Replenishment works way better for me than the first time I tried it (due to a misreading in the tooltip, which says % of mana... doh! Wasted on Ret/Tank-Pallies...), it is as of now officially underpowered. I seem to be unable to retrack the blue post, but I read it for sure, that they're addressing Replenishment's uselessness now.
For Living Seed, I'm still very unsure of it's use. Yes, it does ~3% of my healing. But it seems at the moment, that we wouldn't really need those 3% anyways. As a sidenote, we're just running Naxx10 so far and haven't done Saph with drakes, but so far we didn't encounter any fights I had to use a pot. Innervate, yes, but what are skills for beside using them?
Anyways, what freaks me out most is the point that I see Living Seed running out without proccing! I guess this is due to very high levels of avoidance, but it just seems useless to me right now, since people will only get more avoidance instead of less. I checked our last night's Naxx WWS and had 287 crits on my Regrowth, which added up to 184 Living Seed proccs. So this means more than 30% of my seeds ticked off unused. I don't like this!
Besides the mechanic of "% of effetive heal" irritates me. Those above mentioned Regrowths added to a average hit of ~7000HP. My average Living Seed proc was around ~1800HP, which is more than 500HP below the estimated values.
Long story short, I understand why you switched those points out and I'm definitely thinking about it myself. Especially because I feel myself lacking of a big "Oh shit button" for Naxx with 2 healers, if Swiftmend AND NS are on cooldown.
Could any1 explain me what is challanging in Naxxramus 10 pple with 2 healers?
We are doing this from very beginning and last problem was - we missed one healer at thursday raid (last day of the WoW week in EU) and respecced our retrodin to holy, he had 1.5k spellpower and 15k mana buffed, and we wiped at Horsemans several times because his mistakes or OOM.
PS
I am healing in 25 pple raids usally and tanking in 10 pple, i've been healing in Naxx 10 pple only 2 times in the beginning of WotLK
01/17/09, 10:39 AM
That is also why I still consider to get 3/3 Nature's Grace - seeing someone taking damage and within 0.5 seconds I've healed them back to full is really neat. Anyone with experience got any tips or ideas?
