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01/05/09, 2:58 PM
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#106
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Crushridge
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Originally Posted by woodsyresto
I have a 16/0/55 rejuv/regrowth build which I have geared up to 14K health, 13.5K mana, +1900 heals, 188 haste and 606/203 regen. My glyphs are Regrowth/Swift/Innervate. I've run a reasonable number of instances, close to 250 badges, and with a good guild tank and dps group with either a pally or sham I fairly rarely use innervate in any 5 mans so me gear focus is on building haste.
Question 1 - I seem to have problems keeping under geared tanks standing in some 5 mans so am trying to figure out if my spell loading sequence is the best one possible. Typically I cast rejuv just pre pull, then walk in stacking my lifeblooms, then add regrowth. I then just keep the lifeblooms rolling and use swiftmend on little spikes and fall back to natswift/HT if I fall behind. Challenge is with some tanks the initial dmg has them down before I even get to natswift/HT. Is there a better loading sequence in this scenario?
Question 2 - I seem to have problems getting aggro on the pull when healing warrior tanks. Likely because I'm loading HoTs on the tank on the pull but why do I only have this problem with warrior tanks? Can I or they do anything to help mitigate this? Do all the HoTs generate the same aggro?
Question 3 - I don't know the other classes. What stat questions do you ask Pally, Druid and DK tanks to figure out if they are geared for heroics? So far I've just been looking at health with anything under 22K being a warning.....
Hope these questions aren't too basic for this forum.
Noob Healer - trying to get better
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Question 1: I open with Rejuvenation because 3 seconds till first tick = time for tank to get aggro, and it allows me to swiftmend if he takes a lot of damage right off the bat. I like to Rejuv and start casting LB, but stop and cast Regrowth if I notice tank getting hit down fast. I more recently put up a regrowth on the tank before the pull so that I can get the 20% more healing from the next regrowth.
Question 2: Warriors enrage before the pull, to get some rage at the sacrifice of their health. If your hots are rolling on the warrior, they will heal the warrior and you will get healing aggro possibly before the warrior has enough rage/time to get aggro on all the mobs. Shadowmeld if this happens!  On Patchwerk and Malygos I have my hots rolling on the tanks before the pull, and I'll make sure the enrage portion has been healed before he actually aggros the boss.
Question 3: Ask if they are uncrittable. Druid tanks are regardless of gear, but Paladins, Warriors and DKs need to have a good amount of Defense before they are uncrittable. If the tank doesn't know if he is uncrittable, then he probably has spent 0 time looking into tanking theorycrafting and likely will not do so well.
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01/05/09, 4:32 PM
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#107
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Von Kaiser
Draenei Hunter
Dragonmaw (EU)
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About Imp. Tranquility: I personally love this talent even though I never use it more often than the 10 min original cooldown. I think it is more of a psychological thing for me in many cases: Do I need it more in the next 10 min than right now? Asking myself that question cost valuable miliseconds (yeah I think that fast  ). With 4 min then I don't have to ask this question and can just use it if the proverbial shit hits the fan.
In 5 mans I use it immediately if the groups gets a double pull: massive group healing + 0 threat is tailormade for bad pulls.
Someone mentioned the shortcomings of being Group only, but I love that fact (granted I only play 10man so that may affect my judgement). So few abilities are group only that it is no problem to be put in the same group as the tanks i.e. the people who most likely need the massive healing.
Overall the talent ranks very high on the fun-scale for me because it adds new functionality to good old Tranq,
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Real men have infractions on their EJ account!
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01/05/09, 5:34 PM
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#108
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Runetotem
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Originally Posted by woodsyresto
I have a 16/0/55 rejuv/regrowth build which I have geared up to 14K health, 13.5K mana, +1900 heals, 188 haste and 606/203 regen. My glyphs are Regrowth/Swift/Innervate. I've run a reasonable number of instances, close to 250 badges, and with a good guild tank and dps group with either a pally or sham I fairly rarely use innervate in any 5 mans so me gear focus is on building haste.
Question 1 - I seem to have problems keeping under geared tanks standing in some 5 mans so am trying to figure out if my spell loading sequence is the best one possible. Typically I cast rejuv just pre pull, then walk in stacking my lifeblooms, then add regrowth. I then just keep the lifeblooms rolling and use swiftmend on little spikes and fall back to natswift/HT if I fall behind. Challenge is with some tanks the initial dmg has them down before I even get to natswift/HT. Is there a better loading sequence in this scenario?
Question 2 - I seem to have problems getting aggro on the pull when healing warrior tanks. Likely because I'm loading HoTs on the tank on the pull but why do I only have this problem with warrior tanks? Can I or they do anything to help mitigate this? Do all the HoTs generate the same aggro?
Question 3 - I don't know the other classes. What stat questions do you ask Pally, Druid and DK tanks to figure out if they are geared for heroics? So far I've just been looking at health with anything under 22K being a warning.....
Hope these questions aren't too basic for this forum.
Noob Healer - trying to get better
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When you say 1900 heals you mean 1900 spell power right? 1900 healing is only about 1010 spell power and that would be a big problem. Also, only 203 mp5 in combat seems low to me if you have 1900 spell power. Maybe your first task is to bring that spell power up 200 or 300.
1 - As others have said I make sure there is a Swiftmendable hot on the tank ASAP. Rather than going for 3xLB so early mix in Regrowth and maybe a Nourish in while building your stack. Nourish is pretty bad for mana, but if mana is not a concern then it's a decent heal. Basically, bring the big guns in earlier in your rotation. The Rejuv glyph might be a worthwhile swap for Innervate if your tanks spend a lot of time under 50% health. Once they are better geared you will likely swap back to Innervate or the Lifebloom glyph.
2 - Simple thing... always have Thorns on the tank. It's not huge, but it's extra free damage and threat for the tank. Also, don't be shy with Shadowmeld. I use it a ton now, for wipe prevention and if I see mobs coming my way that the tank will not be able to stop. Make sure you are not in melee range - you generate more threat - try and stay 30-40 yards from the mobs where possible. It'll also give the tank more time to intercept or whatever he has to do. Have any class that can do so Misdirect onto the tank. I don't have experience playing a warrior, but these are little things that tip the threat balance away from the healer. Grab a threat reduction enchant on your cloak and/or a threat reducing meta if issues persist.
3 - I only run with guildies so I feel pretty safe with our tanks. That's the best defense... use tanks you know.
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01/05/09, 8:33 PM
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#109
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Stormreaver
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Bracers
What bracers are you resto druids shooting for? Have not been able to really decide on what are best in slot.
If someone could come up with a chart or direct me to one with best in slot in all slots that would be great.
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01/05/09, 8:48 PM
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#110
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Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Laughing Skull
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Originally Posted by Promi
What bracers are you resto druids shooting for? Have not been able to really decide on what are best in slot.
If someone could come up with a chart or direct me to one with best in slot in all slots that would be great.
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[Esteemed Bindings] for haste,
[Swarm Bindings] for crit.
Although Restoration Itemization or Druid: Simple Questions/Simple Answers are probably better places for your question.
Just search wowhead for epic leather bracers ilvl 200-230 with spellpower and no resilience. There aren't many of them.
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01/05/09, 8:54 PM
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#111
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Stormreaver
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What about the valor token ones
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01/05/09, 10:15 PM
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#112
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Soda Popinski
Tauren Druid
Twisting Nether (EU)
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Cloth is much more itemized at ilvl 226 (most likely as it can be used by more and us included) and for that reason do not exclude it from BiS setups.
The clothies may whine but as there is often no leather alternatives at ilvl 226 and we have access to the *same/equal* options at the ilvl 213 tier.. well it's down to you. Your chances on the belt will be slightly more difficult though.
Woodsyresto remember to use your Shadowmeld as a Night Elf - it's a very valuable tool we have access to now in all areas of the game from leveling, doing 5 mans or raiding (Sarth+x when whelps spawn for example). It takes some time to get used to using all the time but really it becomes amazing provided you have reaction speeds <4~ seconds.
The Tranquility thing still bugs me because of the innate cooldown it has making me treat it as some prized relic to be saved until I really cannot do enough without it. I used to have this issue way back pre BWL days in classic regarding Innervate and gosh that was annoying to break out of.
I kind of wish it was a base 5 min cooldown with the talent reducing it by 2/4 allowing us to have it as a tool (when talented only) to be used as a standard once per min. Going from 10->4 is still pretty much a once per encounter thing and is only removing waiting time between attempts, the hefty mana cost would still be enough to make us manage it correctly.
Last edited by Playered : 01/05/09 at 11:41 PM.
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01/05/09, 11:13 PM
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#113
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Mondas
1 - As others have said I make sure there is a Swiftmendable hot on the tank ASAP. Rather than going for 3xLB so early mix in Regrowth and maybe a Nourish in while building your stack. Nourish is pretty bad for mana, but if mana is not a concern then it's a decent heal. Basically, bring the big guns in earlier in your rotation. The Rejuv glyph might be a worthwhile swap for Innervate if your tanks spend a lot of time under 50% health. Once they are better geared you will likely swap back to Innervate or the Lifebloom glyph.
2 - Simple thing... always have Thorns on the tank. It's not huge, but it's extra free damage and threat for the tank. Also, don't be shy with Shadowmeld. I use it a ton now, for wipe prevention and if I see mobs coming my way that the tank will not be able to stop. Make sure you are not in melee range - you generate more threat - try and stay 30-40 yards from the mobs where possible. It'll also give the tank more time to intercept or whatever he has to do. Have any class that can do so Misdirect onto the tank. I don't have experience playing a warrior, but these are little things that tip the threat balance away from the healer. Grab a threat reduction enchant on your cloak and/or a threat reducing meta if issues persist.
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Sorry but you dont generate more Threat in Melee Range, dont know who told you that, but you generate the same Threat no matter where you stand, but in Melee Range you get aggro at an aggro Level of 110% of current tanking Player, while Ranged you need 130% Threat to get into the Focus of the Enemy.
For Warrior Tanks, they should use Thunderclap Shockwave at first, because it has 2 nice Effects: First one is they get a nice Threat Level and 2nd every Monster is Stunned für 3 Sec, so they don't need heal for the next 3 Sec -> no Threat for you, after 6 Sec a new Thunderclap and you shouldn't get Aggro.
Well for you gear dont see why you got problems to heal Tanks with only 22k Life. My Twink Druid got less SP and I heal 20k Paladin ie, if they got 3 Lifeblooms at the begin of the fight + Regrowth + Rejuve + Wildgrowth, they have about 3k Heal or more per sec, even Grobbulus on Heroic does only 2k dps. If the Tank goes lower than max life, throw a Regrowth or Nourish like told.
I can hold lifebloom stacks on a tank for an 10 Mins or more, im Always full with Mana, i often cast Lifebloom befor the fight beginns just to charge Sarth 10man Trinket, and i hold them up until the fight ends.
Well Rejuvenation Glyph is not really an option I think, because a Tank who drops below 50% with 4 Hots on him and you throwing some Nourish/SM/RG is no tank, when your Rejuvenation Glyph will tick next hit he bites the dust.
Dont underestimate Wildgrowth as Tank heal in 5 Mans, but its a 700 Hps that heals every Second so its a good Buffer for bad geared Tanks. 700 Heal every Sec (at the end 450 or something like that) is like you buff him with 1-2k Life.
And if the Tanks are really bad i even Throw 3 Lifeblooms and Rejuvenation on me, like that i survive a Heroic Caster/Grouped Melee for about 15 Sec that should be enough for your tank to Taunt, if that is not the case then get a new Tank.
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01/06/09, 11:26 AM
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#114
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Glass Joe
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That's the answer I was hoping for. Didn't want to start a holy war just wanted to make sure I wasn't seriously missing something.
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01/06/09, 12:30 PM
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#115
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Glass Joe
Troll Priest
Shadow Council
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Alright, I might be in the wrong section but I check here frequently and have been working on my gear to the best of my abilities. I have been building a Haste build due to what I thought was the way to go for a Resto Druid but yet I see alot of druids that are building a Crit/SpellPower setup and I thought that was not the way to necesarily go.
I thought with upcoming patch GCD on Wild Regrowth and such that druids wanted to build up their haste and that having anything more then 8% Crit for Tree wasn't necessary.
Please let me know if I have mis-understood my research and if my build is wrong to what you guys can tell.
Here is my Armory link The World of Warcraft Armory
Any help would be appreciated and since this is labeled Healing Discussion is why I posted here.
Last edited by Etam : 01/06/09 at 12:48 PM.
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01/06/09, 1:29 PM
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#116
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Etam
Alright, I might be in the wrong section but I check here frequently and have been working on my gear to the best of my abilities. I have been building a Haste build due to what I thought was the way to go for a Resto Druid but yet I see alot of druids that are building a Crit/SpellPower setup and I thought that was not the way to necesarily go.
I thought with upcoming patch GCD on Wild Regrowth and such that druids wanted to build up their haste and that having anything more then 8% Crit for Tree wasn't necessary.
Please let me know if I have mis-understood my research and if my build is wrong to what you guys can tell.
Here is my Armory link The World of Warcraft Armory
Any help would be appreciated and since this is labeled Healing Discussion is why I posted here.
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The debate over crit or haste, at least in my opinion, is like debating over which tastes better-- coke or pepsi? I suppose your primary healing role, and general healing classes you roll with, could influence your decision. Both sides have figures and logic to back up their arguments, and you can't seriously screw up your character either way. With that said, I'm aiming for the softcap of haste (fully raid buffed, and with GotEM, I believe is 222 haste) then opting for crit over haste, if it comes down to that decision. I.E. if deciding between 2 pieces of loot with identical SP and identical stats, I would opt for crit instead of haste. Simply put, i get more synergy from talents like living seed and nature's grace from crit than i do from haste.
I am curious to understand why you opted for 2/5 tranquil spirit over 2/2 empowered touch? Having more power on your "oh crap" spell seems to be a better choice than 4% mana reduction on direct heals. I have zero mana problems what-so-ever in a raid setting with replenishment.
Last edited by Oktan : 01/06/09 at 1:34 PM.
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01/06/09, 1:30 PM
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#117
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Grim Batol (EU)
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Originally Posted by Nilaus
About Imp. Tranquility: I personally love this talent even though I never use it more often than the 10 min original cooldown. I think it is more of a psychological thing for me in many cases: Do I need it more in the next 10 min than right now? Asking myself that question cost valuable miliseconds (yeah I think that fast  ). With 4 min then I don't have to ask this question and can just use it if the proverbial shit hits the fan.
In 5 mans I use it immediately if the groups gets a double pull: massive group healing + 0 threat is tailormade for bad pulls.
Someone mentioned the shortcomings of being Group only, but I love that fact (granted I only play 10man so that may affect my judgement). So few abilities are group only that it is no problem to be put in the same group as the tanks i.e. the people who most likely need the massive healing.
Overall the talent ranks very high on the fun-scale for me because it adds new functionality to good old Tranq,
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Yes, I've been thinking about speccing into that talent for a while now. When WotLK just released I experimented a bit with a full talented Healing Touch build and after I found out it's useless I changed to a Master Shapeshifter build. Unfortunately for me I accidentally specced into Empowered Touch (just copied my old build except for the 2nd/3rd tier), and I'm wanting to respec for several weeks now. If I look at other resto druids builds, almost all druids have the following build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
That leaves 4 points. You can put 3 in Replenish since it ain't all that bad, but where you put that last point? 1 point in imp Tranquility is useless, you either put 2 in there or none. If imp Tranquility would move up the tree it would be possible to take it (or have full Replenish) since you could then just take 2/3 Subtlety. At the moment I'm thinking to go with imp Tranquility and spec 2/3 into Replenish. I seriously think the 2nd tier of talents needs some work though as all options are extremely bad in a raid environment.
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01/06/09, 1:49 PM
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#118
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Kel'Thuzad
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Originally Posted by Norfair
That leaves 4 points. You can put 3 in Replenish since it ain't all that bad, but where you put that last point?
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You probably already know this, since you were the author of the thread with the Haste/GCD info in it, but you seem to have enough Haste on your gear to justify taking one point out of GotEM and moving it into something else, assuming you have WoA totem avaliable.
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01/06/09, 2:31 PM
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#119
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Grim Batol (EU)
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Originally Posted by Raikagi
You probably already know this, since you were the author of the thread with the Haste/GCD info in it, but you seem to have enough Haste on your gear to justify taking one point out of GotEM and moving it into something else, assuming you have WoA totem avaliable.
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Yes, I know. The problem is we don't always have WoA available (but most of the time we do) and I was planning to replace my head and my alchemy trinket soon which will reduce my haste down to 430ish. I guess I'd rather have 1 point less in Replenish then, instead of sometimes (and outside of raids) not having a 1 sec gcd since that is a lot more noticable.
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01/06/09, 3:18 PM
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#120
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Soda Popinski
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I'd like to share one kinda dumb trick I've discovered.
With the glyph of the wild, gift of the wild costs around 1114 mana, and in a 25 man is pretty much guaranteed to proc omen of clarity. So if you want to save mana on tranquility or hurricane you can cast that beforehand and save a few hundred mana. Not practical in many situations but hey, I said it was a dumb trick.
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