Resto (PvE) Healing Discussion - Page 83

goodolarchie · 05/09/09, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by Daedalix

I don't find this to be the case. I rarely roll LB if not on the MT because I can always find a free GCD for something else, atleast in Ulduar. My MTs don't die as a result. And the mana cost of keeping up a 3-stack is prohibitive. Not sure how you can push the "math aside" on that one. You basically have to let it bloom.

If the MT needs some serious heals I'll chain cast Nourish. If I have to move I'll pop LBs. On occasion I'll LB and then Nourish if I'm not focused on anything else. It's extra healing, but Nourish is far more powerful in terms of keeping a MT alive.

You say this, but your gear is also below what most of us have at this point. It isn't surprising that YOU can't keep up a 3 stack on a tank (no offense).

On phase 3 Yogg for instance, I kept RJ, RG, and LBx3 on both tanks without any problem for the ~4 minutes it took to kill him. I also threw WG's into the retarded ranged that got hit the gaze somtimes. I used swiftmends when either of the tanks took a big hit. My nourishes went to the tank was herding the new inc adds. I had no mana problems, I used an innervate in this phase and probably a pot, but I ended with a good 10k mana left. I could have kept that going for another 2 minutes if necessary (which would have been close to enrage). 6 minutes where this is capable is pretty much open to any LB strategy. I simply treated it like I would have patchwerk being two-tanked and it worked well.

I can usually keep up the full stack on the Steelbreaker tank for our ICU: Steelbreaker attempts also, with all the raid rejuving.

uliko · 05/09/09, 8:00 PM

Steelbreaker last is around 6m. That means you have to refresh lifebloom 6*60/8=45 times. LB is 783 mana so to roll lifebloom the entire fight costs 45*783=35235 mana. I don't know about you or other druids but personally I did not end up anywhere near full mana with innervate ready when steelbreaker got low which is what it would take. Not even if you had a spark you'd have anywhere near the amount of mana it required.

Say you did have one and it actually reduces every spell by 42 mana (it doesn't) and you manage to cast around 300 spells (also more then you probably do) it would still only net you another 12600 mana and another ~2600 mana from the spirit. You're still short another 20k mana and I really doubt you end the fight at 100%.

Lifebloom was a very good spell before but with the doubling of the mana cost and the massive amounts of raid damage being thrown at us in Ulduar rejuvenation is just so much better. While you may say lifebloom and rejuvenation serve two different purposes, I could agree. However a 1400/s heal on the tank just doesn't do much when it feels like most bosses can drop a tank in 2 hits.

Kittay · 05/09/09, 8:04 PM

I am looking for some info on Thorim Hard Mode 25. We're taking for healers. 1 Pally, 1 Disc Priest, 1 Holy Priest, Shaman and Resto Druid. I am pretty much staying on raid and rolling hots on our tanks. Rejuv,WG,NS/SM/Regrowth. Our tanks aren't getting topped off fast enough and raid healing is hurting also. What other healer set up is good for that fight and Is it maybe a better rotation tank healing or raid for a druid?

Bettil · 05/09/09, 10:23 PM

Have a quick question regarding haste:

Found this formula, made by Zoltair of Korialstrasz (US).

GotEM = Gift of the Earth Mother (duh)
WoAT = Wrath of Air Totem (talented)
Aura = Swift Retribution Aura/Improved Moonkin Aura
CF = Celestial Focus.

Haste from Gear = (1.5 * (1 - GotEM%) / ((1 + WoAT%) * (1 + Aura%) * (1 + CF%))) - 1

This tells me I need 253 haste to get 1.0 sec gcd with aura, woat, cf and goetm maxed in the raid. There has been a few patches since this formula was made to my knowledge, my question is if anyone can tell me if this formula still holds or not?

♦ Lrigatonmai · 05/10/09, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by uliko

Steelbreaker last is around 6m. That means you have to refresh lifebloom 6*60/8=45 times. LB is 783 mana so to roll lifebloom the entire fight costs 45*783=35235 mana. I don't know about you or other druids but personally I did not end up anywhere near full mana with innervate ready when steelbreaker got low which is what it would take. Not even if you had a spark you'd have anywhere near the amount of mana it required.

Say you did have one and it actually reduces every spell by 42 mana (it doesn't) and you manage to cast around 300 spells (also more then you probably do) it would still only net you another 12600 mana and another ~2600 mana from the spirit. You're still short another 20k mana and I really doubt you end the fight at 100%.

Lifebloom was a very good spell before but with the doubling of the mana cost and the massive amounts of raid damage being thrown at us in Ulduar rejuvenation is just so much better. While you may say lifebloom and rejuvenation serve two different purposes, I could agree. However a 1400/s heal on the tank just doesn't do much when it feels like most bosses can drop a tank in 2 hits.

You aren't taking into account your MP5 while casting and replenishment effects during the raid. Which is convenient for your argument, but doesn't reflect reflect reality.

goodolarchie · 05/10/09, 6:59 AM

Originally Posted by uliko

Steelbreaker last is around 6m. That means you have to refresh lifebloom 6*60/8=45 times. LB is 783 mana so to roll lifebloom the entire fight costs 45*783=35235 mana. I don't know about you or other druids but personally I did not end up anywhere near full mana with innervate ready when steelbreaker got low which is what it would take. Not even if you had a spark you'd have anywhere near the amount of mana it required.

Say you did have one and it actually reduces every spell by 42 mana (it doesn't) and you manage to cast around 300 spells (also more then you probably do) it would still only net you another 12600 mana and another ~2600 mana from the spirit. You're still short another 20k mana and I really doubt you end the fight at 100%.

Lifebloom was a very good spell before but with the doubling of the mana cost and the massive amounts of raid damage being thrown at us in Ulduar rejuvenation is just so much better. While you may say lifebloom and rejuvenation serve two different purposes, I could agree. However a 1400/s heal on the tank just doesn't do much when it feels like most bosses can drop a tank in 2 hits.

I think you're misinterpreting what I meant. I don't think its necessary to maintain a 3 stack for 6 minutes and be able to do all the other stuff, maybe in full BIS gear with another innervate. It is quite feasible though to use for the last and most important phase of the fight. This might change if you bring many melee.

Still, I'm not losing in the race of mana consumed/gained just spamming rejuvs, which means I could maintain a single stack of lifeblooms without much trouble. The fact that it's another GCD consumed every 8 seconds is more taxing than the mana cost.

Romper123 · 05/11/09, 4:07 AM

Hey!

I'm a Resto druid and I'm playing in a very good guild and we've downed Yogg(25) and some hardmodes etc. They say that I use wrong healing spells and I don't know really what I'm doing wrong since I'm using Reju on raid if there's raid dmg and wg all the time ofc. ALL hots on tanks and regrowth on raid if there's needed a heal directly, I do use nourish on tanks and those I've got hots on. Still they say that I use wrong spells, so please help me understand what I'm doing wrong. Thanks for your time, maybe there alredy is a thread like this but then I missed it. And I haven't been raiding for so long only since wotlk so I still got much to learn.
Regards Romper!

Anuril · 05/11/09, 4:40 AM

Hey Romper123

hmm you are healing false they say? you heal just as i, and many other druids so far i know...

because i don't now how your gear is, i can't tell you very much about improving your gear, but, with the same style you heal, i'm healing mostly top on our raids... perhaps you spread some LB out, if you have time / mana left...

Maybe we can help you better if you post us a WWS or something like that...

To another question, patch 3.1.2:

Maybe i've got something false in mind, then please correct me.
My Calculating is basing on following belief:

Base mana pool is the mana, when you take off all gear. (If i am false in this point, all further calculating is false)
At Level 80 my Taure Druid hast 5316 Mana completely without gear.

----------
base mana pool: 5316.

450% of 5316 Mana is 23922 Mana

This amount over 20sec. is 1196 Mana per second
----------

----------
with the glyph:

540% of 5316 Mana is 28760 Mana

28760/20 = 1438 Mana per second
----------

i don't know, but, somehow it's kind of a brutal buff, if it's calculating like this... (sure, i pray it is like this XD)

/discuss

Romper123 · 05/11/09, 6:07 AM

You asked about the WWS and here it is World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
I'm usually like top 3 healer if you look at the meters but I don't think that just cause your highest one on the meter makes you the best one^^

And you can look at my gear at armory here's a link: The World of Warcraft Armory

oops wrong WWS here you go: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Anuril · 05/11/09, 6:18 AM

yeah, i've got just a little problem... this wws seems like you were boomkin...

^^ usually i heal quite bad in moonkin form..

Starfox · 05/11/09, 6:27 AM

Originally Posted by Anuril

Hey Romper123

hmm you are healing false they say? you heal just as i, and many other druids so far i know...

because i don't now how your gear is, i can't tell you very much about improving your gear, but, with the same style you heal, i'm healing mostly top on our raids... perhaps you spread some LB out, if you have time / mana left...

Maybe we can help you better if you post us a WWS or something like that...

To another question, patch 3.1.2:

Maybe i've got something false in mind, then please correct me.
My Calculating is basing on following belief:

Base mana pool is the mana, when you take off all gear. (If i am false in this point, all further calculating is false)
At Level 80 my Taure Druid hast 5316 Mana completely without gear.

----------
base mana pool: 5316.

450% of 5316 Mana is 23922 Mana

This amount over 20sec. is 1196 Mana per second
----------

----------
with the glyph:

540% of 5316 Mana is 28760 Mana

28760/20 = 1438 Mana per second
----------

i don't know, but, somehow it's kind of a brutal buff, if it's calculating like this... (sure, i pray it is like this XD)

/discuss

Until you realise that your base mana pool is 3496, not 5316. (Little, but noticable, difference)
Innervate: 15732 mana
Glyph: 3146 mana

Anuril · 05/11/09, 6:50 AM

hmm i thought nothing can be such powerful, after the spirit nurv

why is is 3496 my base mana pool, (or: where can i see my base mana pool)...

----------------
Romper: yeah, seems not bad.. but i've seen that your "most used spell" is WG ...

Here is the link to one of my wws:

WWS
(have to say, i've had specced a litte false, sorry, if you want i will post you a newer one today evening)
And my armory link:
Armory

If you look, i also heal much with WG, but my main healing spell is Regrowth.

Originally Posted by anuril's wws

Regroth Hits: 374

Originally Posted by romper's wws

Regrowth Hits: 170

(depends on the time raiding)
also i've seen you dont SM that much... maybe you change this...

or another question, is your ui healing-friendly?
do you have installed addons like healbot or grid to heal over the whole raid without targeting every player?

i don't know if this helps you out, but i hope so..

Norfair · 05/11/09, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Anuril

hmm i thought nothing can be such powerful, after the spirit nurv

why is is 3496 my base mana pool, (or: where can i see my base mana pool)...

It's your current mana minus the mana on the tooltip on intellect, not your mana when you are naked. However, when checking it seems that the mana on the tooltip on intellect is ALWAYS 280 lower than intellect * 15. Anyone knows where this 280 difference comes from?

Zoltair · 05/11/09, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Bettil

Have a quick question regarding haste:

Found this formula, made by Zoltair of Korialstrasz (US).

GotEM = Gift of the Earth Mother (duh)
WoAT = Wrath of Air Totem (talented)
Aura = Swift Retribution Aura/Improved Moonkin Aura
CF = Celestial Focus.

Haste from Gear = (1.5 * (1 - GotEM%) / ((1 + WoAT%) * (1 + Aura%) * (1 + CF%))) - 1

This tells me I need 253 haste to get 1.0 sec gcd with aura, woat, cf and goetm maxed in the raid. There has been a few patches since this formula was made to my knowledge, my question is if anyone can tell me if this formula still holds or not?

Confirmed. So far the above remains true to the present.

Erdluf · 05/11/09, 1:06 PM

Originally Posted by Norfair

It's your current mana minus the mana on the tooltip on intellect, not your mana when you are naked. However, when checking it seems that the mana on the tooltip on intellect is ALWAYS 280 lower than intellect * 15. Anyone knows where this 280 difference comes from?

IIRC: Your first 20 int give you 1 mana each, not 15 mana each. If you'd had around 300 mana at level one, you wouldn't have had to hit so many things with your staff.

Edit: yes

Originally Posted by wowwiki

Increases mana points. Each point of intellect gives 15 mana points (except from the first 20 points of Intellect that provide 1 mana for each point instead).