Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01/06/09, 4:46 PM   #121
mordrood
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
subtlety

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I am new to the resto tree. With the changes in threat in WtLK, is sublety necessary? I'm currently doing 5-mans and heroics, but want to get into 10-mans.

Offline
Old 01/06/09, 5:13 PM   #122
Lightflower
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dath'Remar
Originally Posted by mordrood View Post
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I am new to the resto tree. With the changes in threat in WtLK, is sublety necessary? I'm currently doing 5-mans and heroics, but want to get into 10-mans.
Subtlety shouldn't be necessary in normal & heroic 5 mans and is not really necessary in raids either. However, on some fights (namely Sarth 2/3D), the tanks are pushed to pick everything up and healers are pushed to keep everyone topped up as much as possible. The combination of constantly spawning adds & large numbers of rolling HoTs means that you'll be generating a lot of threat there. Anything that reduces it and keeps you from getting gibbed seems to be a good investment to me.

Besides, where else would you put the points

Offline
Old 01/06/09, 7:32 PM   #123
George
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Aman'Thul
If a tank has threat then a healer shouldn't need 30% less to not pull off the tank. If the tank has no threat then having 30% less will still put you over the tank, either the mob will still go after you or pick another healer who is above you.

I started 2 drake sarth without threat reduction then specced into when I died all the time. Even with it I still died to pulling threat on adds, it really made little/no difference. Part of that was due to our group make up, 2 prot wars and pally healers but the only way I could stay up with warstomp/BoP.

Offline
Old 01/06/09, 8:39 PM   #124
Ploppy
Von Kaiser
 
Ploppy's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Moonglade (EU)
Well... while I agree its rarely that I have threat issues unless you have some kind of combination of addspawning and really spamming lots of people with heavy healing I dont really see what you take instead of subtlety. Is it for 3/5 Tranquil Spirit you wish to drop subtlety? Cant say I have evaluated that talent to further extent in wotlk but it really feels like a small managain to trade the times where threat is sensetive. 30% could be the diference in one attack or two attacks a tank has to get off to get an add off your bank, meaning it could also be the diference in one or two swings that add aims at you rather than the tank. But to be fair it is just a hunch of mine. Untill Im starting to feel really pressed for mana I´m not going to investigate Tranquil Spirit.

Regarding Shadowmeld there is another neat trick to it that applies only to 5 mans. While raiding one of the druid mana tricks is to use your inervate early enoughe to get two in one fight. However in 5mans the trick is to pot early and use shadowmeld immediatley after since that starts the pottimer and in another minute you get to use another pot. So even if you havnt built up your mp5 and manapool for real durability yet (or if you´re healing a crappy tank you can squeeze two pots and an inervate on nearly all bosses if you time them right. (put simply chainpotting isn´t dead for druids.) For alchemists you can also extend your durability the middleway, I play a bit with people who like speed and chainpulls, but chainpoting runics would really be overkill even with my current crappy gear so I use the shadowmeld trick together with endless pots wich most of the time gets me right over the top where I dont haveto stop and drink anywhere for speedy clears.

Offline
Old 01/06/09, 11:03 PM   #125
Isambaard
Soda Popinski
 
Isambaard's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by George View Post
If a tank has threat then a healer shouldn't need 30% less to not pull off the tank. If the tank has no threat then having 30% less will still put you over the tank, either the mob will still go after you or pick another healer who is above you.

I started 2 drake sarth without threat reduction then specced into when I died all the time. Even with it I still died to pulling threat on adds, it really made little/no difference. Part of that was due to our group make up, 2 prot wars and pally healers but the only way I could stay up with warstomp/BoP.
Not to dispute that you personally saw no difference, but on paper the benefit would be that tanks who are trying to pick the adds up primarily with AOE threat abilities (consecrate, pestilence, thunderclap type stuff) the less threat you generate the more easily they will peel mobs off you. I agree that once they have them its unlikely the talent will change whether or not you pull them back.

I'm in the camp that there's no place else worth putting those points to move down the tree compared to Subtlety at the moment.

Offline
Old 01/07/09, 2:21 AM   #126
Kamiyu
Glass Joe
 
Human Priest
 
Bronzebeard
Originally Posted by Moknim View Post
I have been told that Grid can display almost all the pertinent information needed about my HoTs, but I have not been able to find a way to convey all the information (how long is left, how many stacks do I have up, etc.).
I know that GridStatusHots did most of that at one time (color coding to indicate which HoTs were active, text coloring to indicate expiry times) - the last time I used it (pre-Wrath) at the very least it showed LB stacks and an expiration countdown.

Offline
Old 01/07/09, 10:28 AM   #127
Nitz
Don Flamenco
 
Nitz's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Ysondre (EU)
# Moonglow: This talent now also benefits Nourish.
# Nourish: Wild Growth applied to a target now increases the healing done by this spell by 20% like other heal over time effects.
MMO-Champion BlueTracker - PTR Patch 3.0.8 Notes
Nourish, which spell I use quite a lot now that I have been convinced of the awesomeness of 4T7, enough to go away from Glyphed Regrowth for tank spamming and try out Innervate and Rejuvenation glyphs, is now officially in the awesome ballpark. I'll hate it when it will fall down to shitty/without a large enough niche to fill once again after breaking the T7 bonus (*for tank healing anyway, it will be a cool Flash Heal spell with WG boosting it.. but only on players affected by WG).

Last edited by Nitz : 01/07/09 at 10:39 AM.

France Offline
Old 01/07/09, 10:40 AM   #128
Playered
Soda Popinski
 
Playered's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Mana was not really the issue with Nourish although it is a very nice change to have available - it needs a slight strength boosting talent thrown in to soothe concerns and making people get used to a new spell only with 4t7 making it truely superior is not a smart way to do things.

Great Britain Offline
Old 01/07/09, 11:24 AM   #129
Fallenangel
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Chromaggus (EU)
Originally Posted by Playered View Post
Mana was not really the issue with Nourish although it is a very nice change to have available - it needs a slight strength boosting talent thrown in to soothe concerns and making people get used to a new spell only with 4t7 making it truely superior is not a smart way to do things.
And tranquil spirit is the talent to do it. It's hideously underpowered compared to moonglow now.

Offline
Old 01/07/09, 12:51 PM   #130
Lord BEEF
Soda Popinski
 
Lord BEEF's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Playered View Post
Mana was not really the issue with Nourish
It sort of is though. If Nourish cost half of what regrowth cost, you'd cast it a lot more. It could then fit in a 'flash of light' type role.

The moonglow change makes it more competitive with regrowth, but really it needs a glyph.

Offline
Old 01/07/09, 1:12 PM   #131
Playered
Soda Popinski
 
Playered's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
There was never any major disparity of HPM between them both (4t7 edged slightly better HPM) though when you assume the direct heal only.
I think they will save the Glyph for when it is unlikely we will still be using 4t7 as to keep it somewhat balanced and have it doing roughly the same boost to healing.. which is why an inclusion to a power boosting talent would be appreciated to get it up there.

Great Britain Offline
Old 01/07/09, 1:15 PM   #132
Maraili
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mannoroth
Dreamwalker's Regalia 2 piece bonus has been changed to reduce the mana cost of Lifebloom.
Taken from the newest PTR patch notes for 3.0.8, found at MMO-Champion BlueTracker - PTR Patch 3.0.8 Notes

I'm not currently on the PTR, so I don't know how big of a reduction this will be for Lifebloom's mana cost, but I would assume that this is to help try and balance out the Rejuv Idol that drops in Naxx25, possibly because Rejuv is just too long lasting/heals for too much when left on the raid to heal up incidental damage? Although, I am going to be really sad if this makes Rejuv cost more then Lifebloom again. I have been getting quite fond of that and don't use Lifebloom nearly as much anymore.

Offline
Old 01/07/09, 1:16 PM   #133
Dioneirra
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Khaz'goroth (EU)
While i do think the same as far as the missing glyph is concerned (that it should be supplied, and it should somehow be balanced to counter the somewhat overpowered Regrowth glyph), i oppose the idea of a spell needing a supporting glyph in order to be considered. Right now the balancing should be happening within existing talents. Only 4 (5 with the change in 3.0.8) talents mention Nourish explicitly, 1 (2) of them reducing the mana cost, 1 reducing interrupt effects, 1 providing a small spellcrit bonus and the last one only listening the spell as possible proc spell. That leaves a somewhat lacking feeling of support through specialization talents. Herein lies the main opportunity of a workover regarding Nourish, not in supplying a glyph, without (as with missing 4T7) the spell would be a weak alternative again.

Offline
Old 01/07/09, 3:52 PM   #134
red
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Laughing Skull
I'm very disappointed by the 2pc change from rejuv to lifebloom. I rely on rejuvenation for 50-80% of my healing, and I'll be sad to see its mana cost rise.

Offline
Old 01/07/09, 4:22 PM   #135
mordrood
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Ploppy View Post
Well... while I agree its rarely that I have threat issues unless you have some kind of combination of addspawning and really spamming lots of people with heavy healing I dont really see what you take instead of subtlety. Is it for 3/5 Tranquil Spirit you wish to drop subtlety? Cant say I have evaluated that talent to further extent in wotlk but it really feels like a small managain to trade the times where threat is sensetive. 30% could be the diference in one attack or two attacks a tank has to get off to get an add off your bank, meaning it could also be the diference in one or two swings that add aims at you rather than the tank. But to be fair it is just a hunch of mine. Untill Im starting to feel really pressed for mana I´m not going to investigate Tranquil Spirit.
I was looking at Imp. Tranquility, Living Seed or Nautural Perfection for the 3 points. Here's the spec I was looking at with the 3 points taken from subtlety. Note sure if I've taken some less-than-optimal talents.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Thread Tools