Every healing class has it's strengths. Ours is HoT's. Anything that makes a HoT closer to other classes skills, like hasted HoT's, I consider a bad modification. Lust over more powerful Rejuv's, if you want, but the healing will be balanced in the end. I'd like to see and would recommend just the opposite. Allow us to lengthen our HoT's, not shorten them. If I wanted instants, I'd roll some other class. I rolled a druid for HoT's, HoT's and more HoT's.
I think you worry too much. If they make haste work on hots like they make on casting time, 20% haste (which is quite a lot, actually) will make your hots tick every 2.5 sec. Also, you are not forced to take the RJ glyph and it's been said that it's not even certain that this glyph will make it into the game. And don't forget this only applies to RJ, not to all our hots (although it might set a trend for 4.x).
My assumption was that the glyph works from everything that affects the GCD - talents, external buffs, BL etc. So at 1s GCD rejuv will tick every 2 seconds.
Is the glyph even available on the PTR for testing? If someone has it posting some numbers would be greatly appreciated.
My assumption was that the glyph works from everything that affects the GCD - talents, external buffs, BL etc. So at 1s GCD rejuv will tick every 2 seconds.
Is the glyph even available on the PTR for testing? If someone has it posting some numbers would be greatly appreciated.
I have just checked the PTR and it has been implemented. It is really hard to get some exact values as the combatlog and/or Prat does not seem to support miliseconds. I have Frapsed the healing I did on myself and checked the timers back on the video in an video-editing program, but I get some variations in my measurements. Almost all measurements are between 2.2 seconds and 2.48 seconds. This is with 17ish% haste on gear and GotEM (=10% extra haste). I think it does work the same way as normal cast times, because with 27% haste I would come to an interval of 2.36 seconds which is about the average of my measurements.
Now, I have not yet seen a shaman willing to test with me so I am not sure if it this is affected by Bloodlust/Heroism and/or totem/aura. If it does get affected by it, I suppose getting close to a 2 second interval is very feasible.
This is the current talent spec I'm testing out. I modified it very slightly from the standard nourish build I see out there a lot. This is implemented with the T9 4set bonus and glyphs of Swiftmend, Nourish, Innervate. Gem focus is on SP/Crit/SPI in that order with the goal to get crit as high as possible without sacrificing too much SP. Fully raid buffed I have 32% crit which translates to 66% for Nourish, 57% Regrowth, 36% HT 32% Rejuv & SM (as per TreeCalcs). With just Rejuv up on a target my Nourish crits for 10.5K-11K, typically a very quick full heal for a person in need. With 4 HoTs i can easily hit over 13K and that is every 2 out of 3 casts. Plus I LOVE the added bonus of Rejuv. crit'ing for an extra 1k every third tic.
Heal Strategies = Rejuv. X5/WG on raid with Rejuv/Nourish combo used as quick full heals on individuals and/or Rejuv/RG/LB on tanks & using WG/nourish spam when tanks take a lot of continuous damage & of course SM or NS/HT combo for emergency heals
I have been using Mojo and MP5 food to give my MP5 a boost and with Innervate and sometimes an occasional Mana Pot, I've had no issues with mana. I'm going to try boosting my heals with Frost & Fish and see how that effects things since the spreadsheet gives me a 2.5 point increase in HPM. I have found myself topping the charts in raids as far as heals go, even against healers with higher gear scores.
So, any suggestions, criticism, comments on this build/strategy and its effectiveness?
*Note: I am still debating whether to swap out Living Seed for Natures Grace, what I'm wondering is if the crit from the periodic Rejuv. heals causes Natures Grace to proc or is it just direct heals? I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the text of the talent will be modified in the next patch to correctly read that it doesn't proc from periodic heals but I'm not sure.
My Nourish Build This is the current talent spec I'm testing out. I modified it very slightly from the standard nourish build I see out there a lot.
This is the standard talent build with your final 7 points shifted into Empowered Touch, Nature's Perfection, and Tranquil Spirit. I wouldn't call it a Nourish build per se unless you are haste capped to 1s Nourish without Nature's Grace. I actually have my own Nourish Build and gear/gem set to match but I'd be ripped apart on these forums because I'm trying to be a paladin
In any case, I think that if you intend on doing a lot of RJ spamming, having Revitalize will be more useful to the raid than the you mana save from Tranquil Spirit.
My guild has 25man TOC on farm and is currently progressing in 10man TOGC. We have downed beasts and Jaraxxus. Due to our limited healers and when they can raid, we have been attempting the 10man hardmode with 2 healers. Me, a resto druid, and a holy priest. Because of this situation I decided to change my spec and healing strategy to tank healing. I wanted to take one for the team as well as experience a new way of healing beyond the Rejuv and Wildgrowth spam I did in 25mans.
As a tank healer, I made nourish my main heal while keeping tanks fully hotted. I realized this was a lot more fun than raid healing. It also took more thought and was significantly harder. I believe tank healing as a resto druid is viable but weak compared to other classes. My nourish has over 50% crit chance and results in many living seeds; handling burst situations is very tough. Avoiding overheals with my nourish was crucial to not going oom. After a couple weeks of experience, looking at recount overheals, nourish was on the bottom of the list. Rejuv ticks and Regrowth ticks were doing all the overhealing.
Now to main point of my post. Reading blue posts on the subject of the debuff Chill of the Throne, with tanks having lower avoidance the bosses will now hit for less but at a faster rate. Tanks will therefore take more steady consistent damage, as oppose to unpredictable bursts.
Will this make druids strong tank healers?
If tanks take a steady flow of damage, almost like an aura, then my hot ticks should stop overhealing and I will have an easier time managing my mana. I am wondering if people on the PTR have anything to say about this.
I am also wondering if this is Blizzards intention as I see people post complaints how ICC loot has little haste and more crit. However the problem with this is that the set piece bonuses appear to help raid healing.
Chill of the Throne, to whatever extent it smooths out incoming tank damage (note that we can't take for granted that it will do this at all), will make tank healing easier for all healers. I don't see why it would confer any comparative advantage on us.
Druids, properly specced out for it, can pound out roughly comparable healing to a Paladin on a single tank. But they have Beacon of Light.
In your case, you can probably power through most of the 10-man with you covering tanks, but Anub might be rather tricky.
@ Anub. I've 2 healed it as a druid with a priest several times on insanity runs. Generally I tank heal and she is holy for NRB, Jaraxxus, and Twins, and she's disc for Faction Champs and Anub. I'm still doing the tank healing on Anub, but the shields are a lot better for penetrating cold anyways.
Yeah, a holy pally can do it better, but that doesn't mean we can't do it.
I don't doubt you can do it, but it's messy and probably exposes the weaknesses of Druid tank healing. I'd be able to say more if I'd ever tried it--we always 3 heal Insanity to make it easy (or 2 heal + Beacon). Point is still the same as usual: it's a rare situation (Anub with Dru/Pst is possibly one) where we have the comparative advantage in tank healing over raid healing next to another healer.
It's not really a druid tank healing problem, it's any non-pally. Having 2 tanks that take extreme damage on a 1sec interval lends itself well to beaconing, while every other healer would have to divide his attention between 2 targets.
I do rather doubt a single druid can solo heal the 2 Anub tanks. The damage intake just seems too large for me, leech alone would be on the order of 8K damage on each tank.
Ideal healing pair for Anub-10 is holy pally + disc priest by a wide margin.
I really think ideal healing is H Pal + X. It's ridiculously easy with any healing partner. (I heal it as a druid with a paladin in one group and as the paladin (my alt who has no ToGC 25 gear) with a shaman partner in another - both are equally comfortable).
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It's not really a druid tank healing problem, it's any non-pally. Having 2 tanks that take extreme damage on a 1sec interval lends itself well to beaconing, while every other healer would have to divide his attention between 2 targets.
I do rather doubt a single druid can solo heal the 2 Anub tanks. The damage intake just seems too large for me, leech alone would be on the order of 8K damage on each tank.
Ideal healing pair for Anub-10 is holy pally + disc priest by a wide margin.
In my heroic group my main priority is keeping both tanks alive(for Anub only) and a holy pally is on penetrating cold/the odd heal on tank. I keep full hots on both tanks(pally without a shield block set on adds and feral on boss.) My nourish is around a 1.3 second cast and I'm not specced into NG. I just refresh my hots on tanks and throw a rejuv on penetrating cold victims and a nourish if the Anub tanks dips too low. I usually let my Lifeblooms fall off the offtank when the boss is around 15% because he let's the adds burrow and it just becomes a DPS race from their. I put a WG on the boss so it targets whoever is lowest health(everyone except tanks stack on the bosses rear.) Not sure if this is relevant, but we always have a rogue with wound poison up.
Edit: We 3 heal all other fights and have our resto shaman go ele so ranged get's the buff on Anub if anyone is wondering.
I really think ideal healing is H Pal + X. It's ridiculously easy with any healing partner. (I heal it as a druid with a paladin in one group and as the paladin (my alt who has no ToGC 25 gear) with a shaman partner in another - both are equally comfortable).
I agree with this statement, simply because a pally is the ideal tank healer in my experience. Our H Pal can keep the tanks up easily by himself, and I'm free to work penetrating colds and the raid.
Even on heroic anub 25, we have our H Pal solo heal the two tanks, with 5 raid healers each covering one PC target.
I was talking to some friends the other day about the changes in raiding from TBC to Wrath, and got really into talking about the way resto druids changed, and this gave me an idea. I went back and took another look at how Gift of the Earthmother is changing, and how it will affect our healing style. Right now my top 3 heals are rejuv, nourish and wg, the order and percentages vary depending on the fight. Now blizz decided to add the little LB buff to GotE, not necessarily for pvp but it did play a big part. What I'm wondering and the reason I brought up the TBC raiding discussion is how much more we will be using LB after 3.3 goes live. I know many of you guys here are talking about regrowth being more than likely our go-to heal but I'm starting to think about going back to the way we healed in TBC, which is for anyone that didnt raid much then LB > everything.
Well this is a pvp change for the most part, as you should be GCD capped or close to that in 3.3, so there's no hidden buff here.
LB fails as a raid heal for the most part, and it's only useful in specific situations - you need to heal on the move and the target already has rejuv, or you know the target will take damage well in advance (XT gravity well).
LB is still a strong tank buffer if you can stomach the mana cost.
LB is still a strong tank buffer if you can stomach the mana cost.
LB on tanks is very mana-efficient as long as you don't roll it (significantly cheaper than Rejuv per cast). It's a great thing to cast with extra GCD's.
Personally I do roll it so I think it's a good spell. Yes it's less mana efficient than letting it expire, but it's also even healing which is kinda the point of an HP buffer.
So, I'm new to my resto spec, and due to some changes in our raid, I'm going to be getting geared and asked to serve as healer more often. I've the 2nd half of this thread (trying to stay in the relevant time period), and I guess most of it is a little over my head. Does anyone have a link to a primer on druid healing that they would recommend? I have found a number of them myself online, but some are outdated, and the rest have differences that I think are influenced by play style. I will be raid healing, and have only healed 5s and 10s, but will be moving to 25s. Here are some questions I'm trying to get answered:
Are most raid groups assigning specific groups for each raid healer to heal, or do raid healers just normally overlap and try to keep each other up?
What is the proper way of hotting up the raid during an encounter? I realize that each encounter will be different, but I know that I'm likely overhotting. Are we keeping hots up, only using them as necessary, etc?
What is the priority of action when people get in trouble. I sometimes feel like I'm catching someone and forced to nourish spam just to keep them alive, and then watching other people slowly tick away. Is this just an experience thing? Sometimes I'm tempted to pop a hot on someone who is taking slow but steady damage and let the person who is taking severe damage fend for themselves. Sometimes, this saves 2 people for the price of 1, but other times, I'm losing a person to save people who weren't in danger of dying.
I realize there is no shortcut for experience, but some help that's relevant to the current patches would be most appreciated.
So, I'm new to my resto spec, and due to some changes in our raid, I'm going to be getting geared and asked to serve as healer more often. I've the 2nd half of this thread (trying to stay in the relevant time period), and I guess most of it is a little over my head. Does anyone have a link to a primer on druid healing that they would recommend? I have found a number of them myself online, but some are outdated, and the rest have differences that I think are influenced by play style. I will be raid healing, and have only healed 5s and 10s, but will be moving to 25s. Here are some questions I'm trying to get answered:
Are most raid groups assigning specific groups for each raid healer to heal, or do raid healers just normally overlap and try to keep each other up?
What is the proper way of hotting up the raid during an encounter? I realize that each encounter will be different, but I know that I'm likely overhotting. Are we keeping hots up, only using them as necessary, etc?
What is the priority of action when people get in trouble. I sometimes feel like I'm catching someone and forced to nourish spam just to keep them alive, and then watching other people slowly tick away. Is this just an experience thing? Sometimes I'm tempted to pop a hot on someone who is taking slow but steady damage and let the person who is taking severe damage fend for themselves. Sometimes, this saves 2 people for the price of 1, but other times, I'm losing a person to save people who weren't in danger of dying.
I realize there is no shortcut for experience, but some help that's relevant to the current patches would be most appreciated.
Just some hints from my experience while clearing some toc 25 hm:
- we're most effective while assigned to healing the raid so in 25mans that's your main role, but at the same same time don't neglect to heal the tanks when you can, ideally you should keep a full set of hots on the tanks;
- hotted tanks are less prone to sudden deaths caused by spikes incoming while the tank healers are moving out of the fire or cannot cast;
- regarding raid healing, reju spam is king, the more people you can hot before a group wide aoe dmg, the better.. set up your interface accordingly (I use vuhdo with left key on the mouse bound to reju and many other bindings)
- try to keep as much as possible wild growth on cd even if there's no aoe dmg incoming, I target the melee group and/or the tank for the only reason that doing so I'm boosting their dps and lessening the damage spikes that they inevitably take (northrend beasts comes to mind);
- rolling lifebloom is damn expensive, but really helps the tank healers.. let them bloom if you can't keep up with the mana;
- use innervate on every cd expecially if you're aggressive with lifebloom rolling and nourish spam without 5/5 tranquil spirit, if mana is getting low quit throwing lifeblooms, this shouldn't happen until the very end of the fight if you geared your druid in a balanced way and/or you didn't spend mana on a combat ress.. mana potions are cheap and provide that extra bit of fuel, having 3 resto shamans in some of our raids has proven very useful (with 3 mana tides you can really go the next level with lifebloom rolling while using hps trinkets)
So, I'm new to my resto spec, and due to some changes in our raid, I'm going to be getting geared and asked to serve as healer more often. I've the 2nd half of this thread (trying to stay in the relevant time period), and I guess most of it is a little over my head. Does anyone have a link to a primer on druid healing that they would recommend? I have found a number of them myself online, but some are outdated, and the rest have differences that I think are influenced by play style. I will be raid healing, and have only healed 5s and 10s, but will be moving to 25s. Here are some questions I'm trying to get answered:
Are most raid groups assigning specific groups for each raid healer to heal, or do raid healers just normally overlap and try to keep each other up?
What is the proper way of hotting up the raid during an encounter? I realize that each encounter will be different, but I know that I'm likely overhotting. Are we keeping hots up, only using them as necessary, etc?
What is the priority of action when people get in trouble. I sometimes feel like I'm catching someone and forced to nourish spam just to keep them alive, and then watching other people slowly tick away. Is this just an experience thing? Sometimes I'm tempted to pop a hot on someone who is taking slow but steady damage and let the person who is taking severe damage fend for themselves. Sometimes, this saves 2 people for the price of 1, but other times, I'm losing a person to save people who weren't in danger of dying.
I realize there is no shortcut for experience, but some help that's relevant to the current patches would be most appreciated.
Especially in 25 person content, your UI will make a huge difference in your effectiveness. Eczo uses Vuhdo for raid frames, I've heard good stuff about it. I use Grid with some plugins like corner text and Clique to do the same thing, so you can play whack a mole with the raid frames. What's worked well for me, is to position the raid frames, main uh-oh buttons, and cast bars just below my toon, so when the fire appears under you it can't be missed.
When gearing up, look for haste as a primary stat. In 3.3 some talents are changing, and raid healing as a tree is all about haste to get to a 1 second GCD. Haste is very strong now but has a soft cap, that cap is moving way up in 3.3 I'm a fan of revitalize and use a 11/0/60 spec, so no celestial focus means lots of haste on gear is needed. Crit's not bad, just not as good as haste, so aim for haste when you can.
Depending on the fight and how your mana pool holds up, you can either keep rejuv and regrowth on tanks and then rejuv/nourish/swiftmend raid damage (Twins / IC type fights), or also keep lifebloom rolled on the tanks when damage is concentrated on them.
Jish, another thing to consider is to cover the healers specifically during 25 man boss encounters. Wild Growth is helpful for melee since you can hit a pocket of them at once, but healers tend to get isolated (as we're spread out to avoid AOE damage) and there are plenty of situations where your average healer is too busy healing to notice they're about to die. I try to keep regular rejuvs up on our healing group whenever possible and then spread out to the rest of the raid (I usually have a shaman or disc priest chipping in on raid heals).
Think most of the other major pointers have been addressed - definitely look up boss abilities that apply DOTs (Napalm from XT, though far less relevant now, Firebombs from Northrend Beasts, Anub's Permafrost, etc.) as those are instances where our heals are custom-made to address the situation.
I think you worry too much. If they make haste work on hots like they make on casting time, 20% haste (which is quite a lot, actually) will make your hots tick every 2.5 sec. Also, you are not forced to take the RJ glyph and it's been said that it's not even certain that this glyph will make it into the game. And don't forget this only applies to RJ, not to all our hots (although it might set a trend for 4.x).
Maybe this has been asked before. (hard to read through all 90 pages). But will it be worth taking the glyph? seems like the advantage of the glyph will be on the HPS, but not on the sustainability of the spell over a long fight on multiple targets.
I like the idea of the faster ticking rejuv for things like 5 mans where we will be able to push rejuv to be a faster and more reliable heal than it currently is. However, on a fight such as Twins, where we're blanketing the raid, the speed of rejuv will work against us as we try to keep everyone hotted.
I've love to hear that you guys have to say about sustainability Vs. reliability.
Just some hints from my experience while clearing some toc 25 hm:
- we're most effective while assigned to healing the raid so in 25mans that's your main role, but at the same same time don't neglect to heal the tanks when you can, ideally you should keep a full set of hots on the tanks;
- hotted tanks are less prone to sudden deaths caused by spikes incoming while the tank healers are moving out of the fire or cannot cast;
- regarding raid healing, reju spam is king, the more people you can hot before a group wide aoe dmg, the better.. set up your interface accordingly (I use vuhdo with left key on the mouse bound to reju and many other bindings)
- try to keep as much as possible wild growth on cd even if there's no aoe dmg incoming, I target the melee group and/or the tank for the only reason that doing so I'm boosting their dps and lessening the damage spikes that they inevitably take (northrend beasts comes to mind);
- rolling lifebloom is damn expensive, but really helps the tank healers.. let them bloom if you can't keep up with the mana;
- use innervate on every cd expecially if you're aggressive with lifebloom rolling and nourish spam without 5/5 tranquil spirit, if mana is getting low quit throwing lifeblooms, this shouldn't happen until the very end of the fight if you geared your druid in a balanced way and/or you didn't spend mana on a combat ress.. mana potions are cheap and provide that extra bit of fuel, having 3 resto shamans in some of our raids has proven very useful (with 3 mana tides you can really go the next level with lifebloom rolling while using hps trinkets)
This stuff is pretty common sense I suppose.
The only fights where I find rejuv spamming for raid heals useful is twins, and northrend beasts p1/p3 stomp. Otherwise I'm just throwing them out there for swiftmend/nourish heals.
Swapping your spellpower/rejuv glyph also helps if you need the mana for the rejuv mashing (twins)
Originally Posted by Jishosan
What is the priority of action when people get in trouble. I sometimes feel like I'm catching someone and forced to nourish spam just to keep them alive, and then watching other people slowly tick away. Is this just an experience thing? Sometimes I'm tempted to pop a hot on someone who is taking slow but steady damage and let the person who is taking severe damage fend for themselves. Sometimes, this saves 2 people for the price of 1, but other times, I'm losing a person to save people who weren't in danger of dying.
Rejuvs with 4pct9, followed up with swiftmend/NSHT cd's, then nourish spam to top them off is what I generally end up doing. Regrowth's instead of Rejuv's if heroism is up.
It's pretty cool when NS bugs aswell xD
10/29/09, 4:37 PM
