Moonkin Guide for Dummies! - Page 10

Ashaera · 01/28/09, 5:47 PM

Maxdps is just horrible (also for moonkins) - To quote myself from the initial post :

Originally Posted by Ashaera

Spreadsheet
Wrathcalc is a great tool to help you finding the right rotation & learning when dot reapplications are worth it: WrathCalcs - Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet

Pawz · 01/30/09, 2:07 AM

Has anyone thought of putting together a pre-raid moonkin gear thread? I would think it would be very helpful.

Arkas · 01/30/09, 3:10 AM

Question:

One of my raiding boomkin is concerned over our rule to not allow leather & plate wearers bid on cloth gear (until the clothies have it).

I did some searching for leather spell power gear with hit rating on it and only found the tier 7 set. It seems almost all the spell power leather is stacked to the brim with spirit. Did blizzard fail this badly with itemization again, or am I missing something. What do you boomkins use gear wise, and could you relate some of your guilds policies regarding boomkin & loot?

khel · 01/30/09, 3:52 AM

Using this lootrank setup, I came up with the following for a tentative gear plan without stepping on the toes of too many cloth classes.

Helm: [Valorous Dreamwalker Cover]
Neck: [Wyrmrest Necklace of Power]
Shoulder: [Valorous Dreamwalker Mantle]
Back: [Pennant Cloak]
Chest: [Valorous Dreamwalker Vestments]
Wrist: [Esteemed Bindings], but eventually [Unsullied Cuffs]
Hands: [Valorous Dreamwalker Gloves]
Belt: [Shackled Cinch], but eventually [Leash of Heedless Magic]
Legs: [Legguards of the Boneyard], but eventually [Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster]
Feet: [Footsteps of Malygos]
Ring 1: [Signet of Manifested Pain]
Ring 2: [Signet of the Malevolent]
Trinket 1: [Illustration of the Dragon Soul]
Trinket 2: [Dying Curse]
Weapon: [Torch of Holy Fire]
Off-hand: [Surplus Limb]
Idol: [Idol of the Shooting Star]

Balancing hit rating is always tricky, but for the most part our leather options are pretty decent compared to the cloth alternatives. Once the main cloth casters get their items, then I will pick up the next. It's really something that you have to handle with your guild though. Your personal dps will definitely be higher using some cloth, but the raid's dps could suffer because of it.

♦ Lorewanderer · 01/30/09, 3:53 AM

Cloth offers a slight upgrade over leather for Wrists/Waist/Boots, but there are very strong items for all of those slots available in leather. The main issue is the lack of i226 leather for those slots, so unsurprisingly the cloth with extra points to allocate tends to come in higher.

Given how much loot is available right now, I'd suggest letting the clothies continue to have priority on cloth, possibly giving your moonkin a slight preference on non-armor specific slots in return. Seeing competitive leather pieces rot because a druid has cloth while the clothies have inferior items is sad, particularly with how much loot happens in a week's raiding.

SolHeiM · 01/30/09, 4:00 AM

Originally Posted by Arkas

I did some searching for leather spell power gear with hit rating on it and only found the tier 7 set. It seems almost all the spell power leather is stacked to the brim with spirit. Did blizzard fail this badly with itemization again, or am I missing something. What do you boomkins use gear wise, and could you relate some of your guilds policies regarding boomkin & loot?

My best-in-slot wishlist contains three (maybe it was four.. at work atm) cloth items. Unsullied Cuffs, Leash of Heedless Magic and Leggings of Atrophy. Raiding Moonkins can get by just fine wearing the leather versions of Unsullied/Headless Magic, but the cloth versions are better.

Spirit isn't a bad stat for Moonkins, as it translates 15% to raw spell power.

Personally I think that limiting Moonkins to leather only until all the cloth users have got all their gear is dumb, as giving that piece to a Moonkin helps the raid just as much as giving it to someone who can only wear cloth.

♦ Tecton · 01/30/09, 6:23 AM

Originally Posted by SolHeiM

Personally I think that limiting Moonkins to leather only until all the cloth users have got all their gear is dumb, as giving that piece to a Moonkin helps the raid just as much as giving it to someone who can only wear cloth.

That's such a short term view of it as to be worthless. Giving the moonkin the eventual leather spellpower belt and the mage the slightly better cloth spellpower belt means both are getting reasonable levels of gear. Sharding an extra item because the moonkin took the cloth item over the mage isn't of much benefit to the raid.

Qalor · 01/30/09, 8:11 AM

Originally Posted by Tecton

That's such a short term view of it as to be worthless. Giving the moonkin the eventual leather spellpower belt and the mage the slightly better cloth spellpower belt means both are getting reasonable levels of gear. Sharding an extra item because the moonkin took the cloth item over the mage isn't of much benefit to the raid.

And, on the other hand, giving the alt mage who comes to 1 out of 5 raids the cloth belt, while the moonkin waits patiently and hopes his belt drops someday provides your raid with less of a boost overall. No particular gear drops are guaranteed to happen, even if you run the place for a year. Let people take upgrades.

• Adoriele · 01/30/09, 9:48 AM

Originally Posted by Qalor

And, on the other hand, giving the alt mage who comes to 1 out of 5 raids the cloth belt, while the moonkin waits patiently and hopes his belt drops someday provides your raid with less of a boost overall. No particular gear drops are guaranteed to happen, even if you run the place for a year. Let people take upgrades.

Obviously we're talking about all things being equal. If you've got a Moonkin and a Mage with similar attendance, let the Mage take the cloth, because the next boss could drop a leather for the same slot. If you give the Moonkin the cloth, the Mage gets nothing. If you give the Mage the cloth, both get something. If the next boss drops another cloth, you still both get something.

But, then, this is why your guild has loot rules. DKP solves this pretty nicely (Moonkin should have more DKP unless he's also been spending it, if he's got vastly higher attendance), as does loot council (as long as your LC officers aren't idiots).

Eilt · 01/30/09, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Adoriele

... If you've got a Moonkin and a Mage with similar attendance, let the Mage take the cloth, because the next boss could drop a leather for the same slot. If you give the Moonkin the cloth, the Mage gets nothing. If you give the Mage the cloth, both get something. If the next boss drops another cloth, you still both get something...

I understand the principle of clothies get cloth first, but at the same time we are held to the same standard as other DPS. If we are not doing as much DPS as possible, we are not doing our job. That being said, there are three items of cloth that are absolute best in slot for my system (rolling t7+1). I need the Unsullied Cuffs, Leash of heedless magic and the Wanton SPellcaster elgs (zomg hit!!!).

These are not items that if I am allowed to bid on, and two bosses later a piece of leather drops I will bid on that and replace the cloth belt I just took from a mage/lock/priest. These are absolute Best in SLot pieces I will be wearing when Ulduar comes out.

In short, I understand not letting moonkins roll agains clothies on EVERY piece of gear, but when it comes down to best in slot it kills me having to wait till every clothie has it before I am even allowed to bid.

• Adoriele · 01/30/09, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Eilt

I understand the principle of clothies get cloth first, but at the same time we are held to the same standard as other DPS. If we are not doing as much DPS as possible, we are not doing our job. That being said, there are three items of cloth that are absolute best in slot for my system (rolling t7+1). I need the Unsullied Cuffs, Leash of heedless magic and the Wanton SPellcaster elgs (zomg hit!!!).

These are not items that if I am allowed to bid on, and two bosses later a piece of leather drops I will bid on that and replace the cloth belt I just took from a mage/lock/priest. These are absolute Best in SLot pieces I will be wearing when Ulduar comes out.

In short, I understand not letting moonkins roll agains clothies on EVERY piece of gear, but when it comes down to best in slot it kills me having to wait till every clothie has it before I am even allowed to bid.

Here's what could happen, assuming it's best in slot for both you and the mage:

Next boss drops non-best-in-slot cloth - If you took the BIS cloth, you have BIS, Mage has not-BIS. Not bad. If Mage took BIS cloth, He has BIS, you have not-BIS. Also, not bad.
Next boss drops leather - If Mage took BIS cloth, he has BIS cloth, you have not-BIS leather.

If you took the cloth, You have BIS cloth, Mage has nothing.

♦ Tecton · 01/30/09, 11:38 AM

Precisely. You can argue it's a personal gain, and that's fine, but the argument initially put forward was that the best thing for the raid is for the balance druid to take the cloth BiS item. That's patently not the case.

Skash · 01/30/09, 3:05 PM

Originally Posted by Adoriele

If you took the cloth, You have BIS cloth, Mage has nothing.

So the mage came with nothing equipped in that slot? Of course not. The mage still has the same piece of gear he previously had. The only thing possibly lost is the incremental upgrade of the two combined pieces vs. just the cloth piece: (mage upgrade to BIS value) + (druid upgrade to non-BIS leather value) vs (druid upgrade to BIS value)

There are times when the marginal upgrade for the mage is so much smaller than the marginal increase for the druid with regards to the BIS that it makes the most sense to give it to the druid when considering the argument of "What's best for the raid?" No simple blanket statement answers the question of whether or not moonkins should pass on all cloth pieces when considering raid benefit. We agree on the solution, which you posted previously (paraphrasing): "This is what good DKP systems and Loot Councils are for."

Droodey · 01/31/09, 12:47 AM

Posted in wrong section

Alerian · 01/31/09, 1:42 AM

A thoughtful, "good" Moonkin should always pass on non-BIS cloth items when there are similar leather items of equal value (relatively similarly available) and a solid/dependable cloth-wearing member of the guild/raid team would receive an equal or better upgrade by receiving the cloth item. It shouldn't even come down to DKP or a loot council making the decision about whether you or a cloth-wearing should receive the item. Folks should know what items they're interested in ahead of time and keep in mind the best interest of their raiding unit.

BIS items, however, are a totally different subject. Those items should be available to all members of your raid that they are BIS for, regardless of armor type. If you're a loot council member/officer and you are not aware of BIS items for Moonkins, you should not be limiting their access to items.