Typhoon is poor DPS and very poor DPM in a single-target situation. Its main use for single-target is that it gives you something to do while moving. I'm not aware of any bosses that get pushed back.

As an AoE, Typhoon beats Hurricane in both DPS and DPM (assuming same number of targets in each case). However the pushback is annoying for tanked targets. If you don't have it glyphed, you should probably only use it as a finisher, or for un-tanked targets (the ones being tanked by your healer).

My main use for Typhoon is outside of raids. Use it for PvP, or to gather a group of mobs when Starfall is on cooldown.

I cannot seem to find the 3.1 rotation. is it still the following?


IFF > IS > MF > Wrath till eclipse > SF till cd, refresh dots and SF till CD is over?

Throwing starfall and treants in when off cd?

This is true (and annoying when you have uncooperative shamans)

I don't know about all of you, but (with very limited testing, granted) I found that a reversed eclipse rotation was giving me more dps.

Mind you, this is WITH all my haste, and a ton of global cooldown run-ins, I was doing a noticeably higher amount of dps with IS > MF > Starfire til wrath eclipse > wrath > starfire during internal CD > plus dot refreshes/starfall/treants

If anyone else was noticing this, please say something, cause maybe I'm just super lucky with wrath eclipses haha.

But if it's doing much better now, then all that haste we stacked is actually DETRIMENTAL now, because of the GCD, and stacking crit would be completely viable again, because it would increase eclipse procs form starfire crits, and not to mention nice and shiny wrath eclipsed crits

If all my itemization is switched, yet again, then /sigh. But anything for a few more deeps :P

I've been testing several DPS rotations today and yesterday too

1. the old one:mf/wrath to proc eclipse/ sf
2. the old one+is(glyphed) refreshing dots anytime except during eclipse
3.the old one reversed (looking for eclipse procs for wrath){having 500 haste and 23% crit isnt probably the best gear to try this tough)
4.few dumb ones: only wrath+IS with no eclipse, even tried the SF+wrath one, tried with procs for both of them

I was somewhat frustrated to not be able to find a clear pattern of one being categorically better than the other.

Did tests up to the point i was OOM dealing between 390-480k damage before getting OOM. DPS self buffed on the big heroic target dummies was anywhere between 3.1 to 4k as said..imo it depends so much on chance that ultimatelly i find it a matter of finding the rotation that suits your playstyle best.

Going for mf/is/sf to proc eclipse/wrath spam seems to have some potential if you would stack on crit.Personally i cba casting a spell at every GCD...we have resto tree for that
So i think i will go with

MF/IS (glyphed)/wrath until eclipse/ SF

wich makes sense giving glyphed IS does roughly the same amount of damage/tick as glyphed MF, just requires refreshing every 14 sec instead of 25 and it only costs 200 odd mana.

P.S.im surprised not to see any discussion sparking on this thread about the new moonkin changes and how these affect the spell rotation, seeing as if every other class/ spec is storming with debates.is everything old and new for moonkins nowdays?

I saw the old one as glyph for sf
is, mf, sf 3 times to make the mf longer, then wrath until eclipse, and while eclipse is on internal cd yuo cast wrath until you need to refresh moonfire, and then you do starfire to keep moonfire stay longer again etc...

I found that out by reading these forums, but maybe it changed...

For the last time, the "spirit nerf" has _absolutely nothing_ to do with while-casting mana regen. Intensity > Dreamstate pre-patch; Intensity > Dreamstate post-patch.

Thanks, will change my spec around and see how it goes tonight. Granted, I'll probably wind up healing for most of ulduar tho :p

Frankly, there are a lot of choices you can make that will have very little impact on your DPS.

Simulationcraft PTR sample output from 3 days ago shows an SF Eclipse rotation being about 2-3% better than an Eclipse rotation, but that ignores:

1) Use SF Eclipse for Bloodlust, Wrath Eclipse otherwise
2) Suppose you don't have the SF idol (but it is now available for only 25 EoV?).
3) Suppose your latency is slightly different than SimulationCraft's?
4) Suppose your haste is a bit lower?

I think any one of those could potentially close (or widen) the 2% gap.

Suppose Simulationcraft thinks it takes you (counting latency) 1.06s for the average Wrath and 2.06s for the Average SF, but you do better at 1.02s and 2.02s (all four of these are made-up numbers). Your Wrath output is 4% better, but your SF is only 2% better. A difference of 1/25 of a second is not much, but it would reverse the relative standings.

I think a valid reason to favor SF is that when the network starts being flakey, SF holds up a little better. It may very well be the case that when things work perfectly Wrath is a better choice.

Another "decision" is when to refresh DoTs. In 3.09 I think most felt that refreshing MF early in Eclipse was probably a win, but it was such a small win that many didn't bother. Insect Swarm may now be in the same boat.

Another question is when to cast Starfall. Starfall scales poorly. In 3.09 I usually waited for an Eclipse cooldown (when SF/Wr is least valuable) to cast Starfall. With a 3-minute cooldown, that was unlikely to impact how many times I could use it in a fight. With a shorter cooldown, and new NG mechanics that is less likely to be optimal. I'll probably use it pre-Eclipse as well as post-Eclipse. I'm not aware that anyone has run numbers on this, and I don't expect the choice to make a large difference either way.

My own numbers in Rawr have been showing that in a low-haste, high-crit situation, Wrath Eclipse pulls ahead of Starfire Eclipse by a measurable amount. Given that we don't know the entire loot table of Ulduar yet, and a lot of the listed haste gear also has spirit on it (which makes it sub-optimal, in general), Rawr seems to be gravitating toward a Wrath-based Eclipse at the top levels of currently known gear. It worries me because it makes me wonder if I got the equations right.

Would it be viable to keep dots up all the time, no matter if you're within an ecplise or not? IS (glyphed) seems to be very good dmg atm and I wonder if a GCD is worth keeping it up 100% of the time.

Basically, what I'm saying is no matter what, cast MF and IS every 12 seconds.

IS seems to tick for 1150 and MF for 1170 with my current gear.

Don't know if this would be useful or not (probably not since we were learning the fight and these attempts were wipe)

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

These were the best attempts we had on him. We are going back in Ulduar tonight I'll try and get more accurate numbers.

One more thing, I had MAJOR mana issues and I had to spec 3 points in Intensity.

Dang! I'm excited, but at the same time, kind of upset, haha.

I think these numbers will be right, though. I mean, if the gear you've seen is already leaning on crit, and with the eclipse changes in the patch, I may be getting ahead of myself, but I'm thinking it's a substantial move from haste and starfire to crit and wrath.

I was doing a noticeably larger amount of dps, like I said before, WITH all my haste. I can only imagine how making most of that into crit, and not hitting the GC will be

I'm interested in pursuing this, though. So if anyone else has similar stats, or even ones that point in the opposite direction, I'm interested in hearing more about the IS > MF > SF-Eclipse > Wrath rotation.

I noticed the same. Without having done the mathwork, I see considerable higher Recount numbers using a Wrath rotation, even when I'm clipping the GCD and using gear optimized for a starfire rotation (~600 haste)

Would be interesting to see some serious math on the subject.

Ashaera has sold his account.

I hope anyone else will do a new "Moonkin Guide for Dummies!" Thread.

:-(

how bad is[Idol of the Crying Wind]compared to [Idol of the Shooting Star] in dps comapritively. Im using crying wind atm and dont have the badges to get shooting star currently just wondering how big of a dps increase it would be if im using a 1mf rotation

Terra

Damage from IS idol will be about 118 * number of IS ticks (IS glyph, not tier bonus).

Damage from SF idol will be about 263 * (SF non crit + 2.09 * SF crit)

If you manage only 2 SF (one crit and one non-crit) every 12s, and maintain 100% IS uptime, the SF idol still wins.

IS Idol can be better on fights with enough movement, but with anything close to a PW-style fight, the SF idol will be much better.

Edit: Graylo says that the idols actually increase base damage, not spellpower. Since both IS and SF have coefficients of 1.2, both of my numbers above are 20% too large. For comparing the two idols against each other, that is ok, just don't count on their values in an absolute sense.

It's 5% armor reduction but still 3% hit.

I've had a look through a few threads, and I can't find this, but apologies if it is already somewhere! I'd like to know if I should proc lunar eclipse, or solar eclipse (or just a straight wrath spam). My spec is here:

The World of Warcraft Armory

(By the way, feel free to comment on the spec if you want, it's for 10 man raiding/heroics.)

And my stats are: 14% haste (overall, counting talents), 1986 spell power, 18.4kmana, 21.39crit, 141hit (im using my resto gear (with a few balance pieces) for my balance gear, so gear advice isn't really that needed )

Thanks!

Jarob

I just configured Rawr to Optimize my gear using the Optimizer. Before I adjusted all available Buffs (triple checked them) and entered my current gear + possible Moonkin Stuff and ran the Optimizer.

I accepted the output thinking it will be better than my current setup (which I assumed by available stuff to be pretty near perfect). Now Rawr put me out some config where I got
261 Hit Rating
which is (as we know) not a cap...

Am I mistaken now, that 261 is the cap and not 263 (which I assume)?
Or is this a Rawr Error?
Or does Rawr think being 0.02% under cap is acceptable (which I dont...)?

Pretty confused here if I should listen to Rawr or if I should just leave it (you should be seing my Moonkin Stuff on Armory if I am not in Heal Gear)

Being 0.02% under the hit cap is fine for a moonkin. What matters is maximum dps. By most dps models, having 10 extra spellpower instead of 2 hit rating is preferred, and that is often the choice you have to make when you are very close to the hit cap like this.

This. Hit rating is worth ~1.5 Spellpower or so, so if it was a trade between 2 Hit and 3 Spellpower, Rawr might go either way, but anything more and the spellpower's going to win. And yes, you'll do more DPS with the spellpower. That said, the 7 spellpower you'd be missing is only worth about 8.4 DPS. That's a small enough number that if you're uncomfortable with the chance of missing a critical spell (though remember that you'd only miss one in every 5000 casts), you can go ahead and make the trade.

Since Rawr and gearing has been here a fair bit, I thought I woudl raise this question.

I have been reading EJ for a while, I know hit cap is first and foremost in a moonkin's stats priority. I had been at 239 before stating Ulduar raids. Much of the gear in there has been 0 hit rating, and against my better judgment I equipped a few pieces. Now I am at 206. (I can still hold near 4k on a dummy, even with the odd miss, and as soon as I can get hit gear back......) Anyhow. Point of the post: I installed Rawr to see how it evaluated my gear and enchants and my gems. I checked the buffs, and clicked on the standard me-only buffs I woudl have (SP food, Mark of the Wild, and just for some #'s I added a flask of the frost wyrm. No other buffs were enabled. I hit optimize with only my equipped moonkin gear, and it suggested to me, that I remove every single one of my +hit gems and enchants, and go with Spellpower and Spirit. Taking my hit down to a rather painful 144 or so.

Someone please - enlighten me. Did I do something wrong in Rawr, or is it really not looking at hit rating as a gemmable/enchantable stat, or what's the deal here?

Any feedback appreciated. Thanks