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Old 01/09/09, 5:30 PM   #46
dukes
Bald Bull
 
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Dukes
Tauren Druid
 
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Ailetha:
a) GCD is affected by haste. This means that you GCD will be less than the 1.5 seconds you're using for Insect Swarm - it should be closer to 1.3 or even 1.2 raid buffed.
b) NG doesn't remove exactly 0.5 seconds on Starfire when critting. My base cast times are 2.47 and 2.06 seconds, which is consistent with a 1/6th reduction (from 3.0 - 0.5 = 1/6th reduction).
c) You've also messed up your second case. 150 ticks is only 21.4 casts, not 25. In your scenario the 22 casts required would take 33 seconds, significantly reducing the starfire damage done.

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Old 01/09/09, 5:37 PM   #47
Eothlorien
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Llane
Using the WrathCalcs Spreadsheet and my current stats, comparing a [Legguards of the Boneyard] swap for [Leggings of Mortal Arrogance] I show:

Non-Jewelcrafters receive a -0.97096813 DPS decrease. This is due to gemming differently for socket/meta requirements.

Jewelcrafters receive a 7.164812247 DPS increase.

I would also like to point out as spell power increases, haste becomes even more desireable over crit. I am sticking with [Legguards of the Boneyard] as my spell power increases, the DPS gap decreases. This is rougly only a 0.15% variation. I will pick up [Leggings of Mortal Arrogance] only once all othet casters who want it, have it.

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Old 01/11/09, 12:04 AM   #48
thann
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Runetotem
Consumeables
Flask = [Flask of the Frost Wyrm], no Elixir combo can match it
Food = [Recipe: Tender Shoveltusk Steak] or one of the other +46spellpower options fx [Recipe: Fish Feast]
Potion = [Deprecated Speed Potion Injector] for dps / [Runic Mana Potion] if needed

I would like to add under consumables or under professions [Fire Seed] for herbalism.


Since 3.0 came out there has been a increase in moonkin threads and i have been trying to read alot of them.
I never see any one make mention of using the fire seed in conjunction with haste pots.
So I thought i would post it here first.
I use a simple macro to bind them together.

/use Potion of speed
/use Fire seed

Hope maybe for a few out there this helps with dps.

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Old 01/11/09, 12:40 AM   #49
 Lorewanderer
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Lorewanderer
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Fire seed does nothing at the moment (as I understand it) and will be turning into a grey item with the next patch.

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Old 01/11/09, 1:48 AM   #50
 Tecton
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Mal'Ganis
Correct, Fire Seed doesn't do anything at all, which is why you haven't seen anything about using it.

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Old 01/11/09, 7:16 AM   #51
thann
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Runetotem
Wow sorry can't believe it doesn't work. Never really looked at numbers as i always used it with the haste pot. Good to know though.

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Old 01/11/09, 8:43 AM   #52
Shuror
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Gausel
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No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by dukes View Post
b) NG doesn't remove exactly 0.5 seconds on Starfire when critting. My base cast times are 2.47 and 2.06 seconds, which is consistent with a 1/6th reduction (from 3.0 - 0.5 = 1/6th reduction).
Well, technically it doesn't remove 1/6th, but it removes a static 0.5 seconds before haste. For example, from your non-NG cast time i deduce that you have approx. 21.45% haste buffed. That would make the NGed cast time 2.0583 seconds, which is what you have.

It's practically the same thing when you only calculate Starfire with Nature's Grace and fully talented Starlight Wrath, which obviously all Moonkins have.

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Old 01/13/09, 10:38 AM   #53
Moonwhisper
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Night Elf Druid
 
Bloodhoof (EU)
Very nice thread Ashaera, keep up the good work.

I missed 2 information that I believe are important for moonkin newcomers (and dummies).

1. Table of Hit cap / Soft hit cap with balance of power / ... with iFF / draenei racial buff and combinations thereof
Hit cap for dps casters on bosses lvl 83+ is:
446 (17%) --> no talents/buffs or whatsoever included.
341 (14%) --> with 2/2 in Balance of Power talent
263 (10%) --> with 2/2 in Balance of Power talent and Misery (priest talent) or improved FF (3/3)
236 (9%) --> with BoP and Misery/iFF and a draenei in grp. (heroic presence draenei racial buff)
2. Thumb rules for relative ratios between Spellpower / Spell Hit / Crit / Spell power / Haste / Int expressed in points of Spellpower.
Spellpower: 1
Spell Hit Rating: 1.1
Haste Rating: 0.76
Crit Rating : 0.55
Int: 0.15
The ratios above are based on Graylo's calculations (10/13/08) and relations which were found by Whitetooth (author of rating buster) However, I am not a math crack just took them "as they are" and rounded for convenience reason.
(reference: Gray Matter: Moonkin Stats at Level 80)
(reference: RatingBuster - Addons - Curse)

I believe that these information is very helpful for an educated decision on equipment.
Could you please include this in your summary. Thx in advance.

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Old 01/13/09, 11:31 AM   #54
Cdin
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Stonemaul
Originally Posted by Moonwhisper View Post
Very nice thread Ashaera, keep up the good work.
2. Thumb rules for relative ratios between Spellpower / Spell Hit / Crit / Spell power / Haste / Int expressed in points of Spellpower.
Spellpower: 1
Spell Hit Rating: 1.1
Haste Rating: 0.76
Crit Rating : 0.55
Int: 0.15
The ratios above are based on Graylo's calculations (10/13/08) and relations which were found by Whitetooth (author of rating buster) However, I am not a math crack just took them "as they are" and rounded for convenience reason.
(reference: Gray Matter: Moonkin Stats at Level 80)
(reference: RatingBuster - Addons - Curse)
Just so you know those numbers were calculated using a beta version of the game. Therefore they have a couple of issues.

1. Since I didn't have access to the beta I had to estimate what the average levels of Spell Power, Crit, and Haste would be. In actuallity I think I think I should have used higher base values for each of those stats.

2. Those stats were based pure on Starfire. While Starfire is still our primary spell, wrath is more important then it was in the Burning Crusade.

3. Also, several things about the game have changed since then that may affect the value of each stat. For instance when I wrote that post I assumed the NG did not affect the GCD. The current conventional wisdom is that it does.

I do think those numbers are fairly close but I doubt they are 100% accurate. I do plan on updating that information, I just havent' gotten around to it yet. I hope to do it soon.

www.GrayMatterWoW.blogspot.com - My Moonkin related Blog.

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Old 01/13/09, 1:07 PM   #55
 Adoriele
Happy October 19th!
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Cdin View Post
Just so you know those numbers were calculated using a beta version of the game. Therefore they have a couple of issues.

1. Since I didn't have access to the beta I had to estimate what the average levels of Spell Power, Crit, and Haste would be. In actuallity I think I think I should have used higher base values for each of those stats.

2. Those stats were based pure on Starfire. While Starfire is still our primary spell, wrath is more important then it was in the Burning Crusade.

3. Also, several things about the game have changed since then that may affect the value of each stat. For instance when I wrote that post I assumed the NG did not affect the GCD. The current conventional wisdom is that it does.

I do think those numbers are fairly close but I doubt they are 100% accurate. I do plan on updating that information, I just havent' gotten around to it yet. I hope to do it soon.
I would change them to Hit:1.7, Int:.35, Spi .15, but that's about it. They'll change again with new tiers. Ideally, you'd want your gear to be 0 for Hit, 1 for everything else (except stats, obviously), we might get close in Icecrown.

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Old 01/13/09, 1:09 PM   #56
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Adoriele View Post
I would change them to Hit:1.7, Int:.35, Spi .15, but that's about it. They'll change again with new tiers. Ideally, you'd want your gear to be 0 for Hit, 1 for everything else (except stats, obviously), we might get close in Icecrown.
Also worth noting that when you're in the wide range where you can gem to hitcap, 1 hit rating is effectively worth 9/8 of a spellpower.


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Old 01/13/09, 3:14 PM   #57
Cdin
Von Kaiser
 
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Troll Druid
 
Stonemaul
Originally Posted by Adoriele View Post
I would change them to Hit:1.7, Int:.35, Spi .15, but that's about it. They'll change again with new tiers. Ideally, you'd want your gear to be 0 for Hit, 1 for everything else (except stats, obviously), we might get close in Icecrown.
Off the top of my head your hit value looks a little high, but it doesn't really matter. Either way the rule is to hit cap.

As far as Crit and Haste, I personally doubt that they will every be equal in value to Spell Power. I know that Crit got really close in T6 and haste passed spell power in T5, but Wrath is a much different game. We start with so much Crit and haste now that they are really far behind spell power.

Then again, I haven't rerun the numbers yet.

www.GrayMatterWoW.blogspot.com - My Moonkin related Blog.

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Old 01/14/09, 2:49 AM   #58
Angelfire
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Emerald Dream (EU)
Originally Posted by Moonwhisper View Post
Very nice thread Ashaera, keep up the good work.

I missed 2 information that I believe are important for moonkin newcomers (and dummies).

1. Table of Hit cap / Soft hit cap with balance of power / ... with iFF / draenei racial buff and combinations thereof
Hit cap for dps casters on bosses lvl 83+ is:
446 (17%) --> no talents/buffs or whatsoever included.
341 (14%) --> with 2/2 in Balance of Power talent
263 (10%) --> with 2/2 in Balance of Power talent and Misery (priest talent) or improved FF (3/3)
236 (9%) --> with BoP and Misery/iFF and a draenei in grp. (heroic presence draenei racial buff)
Not wanting to state the obvious, but since this is a post for "Dummies", I believe you meant:
446 (17%) --> no talents/buffs or whatsoever included.
341 (13%) --> with 2/2 in Balance of Power talent (this talents gives 4% to hit with 2 talents points)
263 (10%) --> with 2/2 in Balance of Power talent and Misery (priest talent) or improved FF (3/3) (Misery and IFF gives 3% each, not stacking)
236 (9%) --> with BoP and Misery/iFF and a draenei in grp. (heroic presence draenei racial buff)

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Old 01/14/09, 3:51 PM   #59
bethor
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Shattered Hand
Originally Posted by Ashaera View Post
*During Heroism -> Drop IS from your rotation as heroism boosted SF in most cases will outperform it. Keep casting MF & use W to proc SF-Eclipses.
Personally during Bloodlust, I SF Spam while keeping MF up... Wrath gets clipped wayyyyy too much with the haste.
Agree / Disagree anyone?

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Old 01/15/09, 12:47 AM   #60
ATheGreat
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Skullcrusher
Originally Posted by bethor View Post
Personally during Bloodlust, I SF Spam while keeping MF up... Wrath gets clipped wayyyyy too much with the haste.
Agree / Disagree anyone?
i'll normally take the time to proc eclipse before i start starfire spamming if it's ready at the beginning of a bloodlust, but if i'm already a good chunk into it and eclipse is still on icd or something, i'll usually let it slide and just mf/sf as needed.

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