Resto UI Discussion - Page 13

Maylene · 03/02/09, 1:23 PM

Originally Posted by Poly

Mouseover macros will definitely work with clique + grid. One thing to keep in mind is that any mouse button presses go to the frame you are over so if you want to bind a mouse button you need to use clique.

Every time I mouseover a frame in my grid, nothing happens. I have the mouse over macro set to my lifebloom also.

Dendrek · 03/02/09, 3:40 PM

There was a post some time back about an "QuickHeal" addon for Grid that updates the health of grid unit frames based on the combat log. I used the addon recommended by that post, but the addon was very out of date and glitchy (and I'm not even sure it worked properly as intended) and I eventually uninstalled it.

I'm hoping someone knows. Is there an updated and working addon that updates the health of a unit frame based on the combat log AND also checks this with incoming unit health indicators (don't know what they're called, but they're the function that grid currently uses to check unit health) from the server?

Arkonos · 03/02/09, 3:52 PM

I've Grid_quickHealth and incomingHealsLib

You have to make sure that every healer has incomingHealsLib installed or it wont work.

charminultra · 03/03/09, 4:14 AM

I've been using HealBot for a long time and have been very satisfied with it overall. Delving into it's pit of options, it's very flexible to configure and I have everything I need bound to several simple mouse+keyboard actions. I have mana showing for the raid, custom debuffs set for decurse (Veil of Shadow), color-specific class bars, and color-specific debuffs. I also have in configured for buffing Motw, GotW, and Thorns. It also shows me incoming heals on people from other classes. The only thing it does lack is showing other HoTs on targets, which since in my raids I'm the only resto druid 99% of the time, that's not a huge deal for me.

I know most everyone uses Grid but I've never seen the usefulness of Grid and it's myriad of (required) extras since HealBot gives me everything that I need in one neat package that doesn't suck up a lot of resources. If I really decide I need HoT tracking, I know there's a single add-on I can get to give me that functionality without having to completely redo my UI.

Here's how mine generally looks. I've since swapped mods to Spartan UI, Elkino buff bars, Prat, and QuestHelper. Also changed the location of fuBar from top to bottom. I don't have any screenshots with my latest (and favorite) UI in a raid to really show it off. It's pretty free and clear so I can see what's going on and still pay attention to my mana and stuff.

Dynalisia · 03/03/09, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by charminultra

I know most everyone uses Grid but I've never seen the usefulness of Grid and it's myriad of (required) extras since HealBot gives me everything that I need in one neat package that doesn't suck up a lot of resources. If I really decide I need HoT tracking, I know there's a single add-on I can get to give me that functionality without having to completely redo my UI.

First off, it looks like you are doing well and can handle yourself just fine with this setup, so I don't want to appear like im argueing against your usage of Healbot. Obviously it's working for you and your guild. However, your post includes reasons against using Grid that are either false or half-truths and this seems to be typical for people that write about why they are using other solutions than Grid, so I'm going to argue against those.

Grid doesn't require 'myriad' plugins to be functional. There are three that I think are important for Druids: RaidDebuffs, SideIcons and the Hot-timing package (and you could argue that RaidDebuffs and SideICons aren't needed at all to get the same functionality that Healbot has). That's all. I realize this is more than the 0 you need to get the same functionality in Healbot, but like many people have stated in the past, this is a tradeoff between configurability and accessibility. At any rate, needing 'myriad' plugins for Grid in order to make it as useful as Healbot is a common misconception that should be abandoned already.

None of the plugins suck up a lot of resouces in addition to base-Grid and although I'll risk being proven wrong here, I don't get the impression Grid hogs a lot of resources at all. For both addons I imagine that the real bottom line on resource consumption depends on the features you end up enabling and if that is the case, then yes, Grid has more potential for resource hogging, because it quite simply has more bells and whistles you can turn on.

You mention not having to redo your UI when you want to add extra functionality to Healbot, but this is not the case for Grid either. Everything you add fits into the basic Grid, so after you install and configure it, it will never change its visual profile in your UI again.

Again, I respect your choice for Healbot on its own merits, but don't talk down Grid with bad facts. I also realize I'm coming across as a rabid Grid-zealot attacking the post of an unsuspecting Healbot user just wanting to show his stuff, but some of the things you say represent common misonceptions that pop up over and over again, so a regular showing of posts pointing out the why and how are have their place in my opinion. Besides, this is in essence what this thread is about if you ask me: improving our UI's and knowledge of them by critical discussion and response.

charminultra · 03/03/09, 4:17 PM

Originally Posted by Dynalisia

First off, it looks like you are doing well and can handle yourself just fine with this setup, so I don't want to appear like im argueing against your usage of Healbot. Obviously it's working for you and your guild. However, your post includes reasons against using Grid that are either false or half-truths and this seems to be typical for people that write about why they are using other solutions than Grid, so I'm going to argue against those.

Grid doesn't require 'myriad' plugins to be functional. There are three that I think are important for Druids: RaidDebuffs, SideIcons and the Hot-timing package (and you could argue that RaidDebuffs and SideICons aren't needed at all to get the same functionality that Healbot has). That's all. I realize this is more than the 0 you need to get the same functionality in Healbot, but like many people have stated in the past, this is a tradeoff between configurability and accessibility. At any rate, needing 'myriad' plugins for Grid in order to make it as useful as Healbot is a common misconception that should be abandoned already.

None of the plugins suck up a lot of resouces in addition to base-Grid and although I'll risk being proven wrong here, I don't get the impression Grid hogs a lot of resources at all. For both addons I imagine that the real bottom line on resource consumption depends on the features you end up enabling and if that is the case, then yes, Grid has more potential for resource hogging, because it quite simply has more bells and whistles you can turn on.

You mention not having to redo your UI when you want to add extra functionality to Healbot, but this is not the case for Grid either. Everything you add fits into the basic Grid, so after you install and configure it, it will never change its visual profile in your UI again.

Again, I respect your choice for Healbot on its own merits, but don't talk down Grid with bad facts. I also realize I'm coming across as a rabid Grid-zealot attacking the post of an unsuspecting Healbot user just wanting to show his stuff, but some of the things you say represent common misonceptions that pop up over and over again, so a regular showing of posts pointing out the why and how are have their place in my opinion. Besides, this is in essence what this thread is about if you ask me: improving our UI's and knowledge of them by critical discussion and response.

Well, the main functionality that I love about HealBot is the clicking. It makes it massively easier to heal effectively and efficiently. Yes, it's not technically required to have Clique but to me that functionality is essential. I guess I should have specified that.

What I meant by redoing my entire UI is that last time I used Grid it was, essentially, a drag out Raid UI that's highly configurable. I like my raid UI in a specific place (as shown in my screenshot) and switching to Grid w/ Clique, DebuffIcons, SideIcons, and Hot-timing, I'd have to spend time arranging all the bars, learning how and where to configure everything to my preferences, and learning to work with a different UI that will provide the same functionality as my old UI. In other words, it'd be a cumbersome task to switch to it and gaining little to no benefit out of doing so. Potential options are nice to have in a UI but not if the potential options are something I won't see or get any use out of at a later time.

I won't claim knowledge of everything Grid but I will claim knowing HealBot like that back of my hand I've been using it so long. I see a lot of the same rhetoric about HealBot not being able to do everything Grid can in a healer/utility capacity when that really isn't true. My experience with Grid was what I described above - cumbersome and no benefit above what I was already using and comfortable with.

Eilt · 03/04/09, 9:32 AM

I do believe that was what Dynalisia was saying, your complaints about Grid are extremely subjective due to you not feeling like changing. Healbot has created a switching cost for you, since you would have to re-learn another AddOn, however this does not make Healbot better, it is just not worth it for you to switch. So it is fine if you want to use it, but you shouldn't try and convince people that it is better, especially using arguments against Grid that are not true.

People who use Healbot like it and that works, people who spent the time to learn Grid like it and that works, it is like politics/religion people are not going to change over anything you post, so just let people decide whichever they find suits them the most.

Back to UI:
When I was full time resto this was the set up I used:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...008_205104.jpg

Top left Red - Aggro
Bottom Left - LB stack 1 = yellow 2=blue 3 = green
Bottom right - rejuv
Top right - regrowth hot
center icons - Raid Debuff (set to show Burn on bruttalus, flame from KJ, etc), curse/poison indicator
Center text 1 - Name/Dead/Offline
Center text 2 - incoming heal/Lifebloom duration

I also added in gird mana bars later, and since wotlk added a WG icon to the top middle area.Grid + Clique set up:

alt click on grid name = target that name
Left click = LB
Right click = rejuv
shift right click = swifment
shift left click = regrowth
ctrl left = decurse
ctrl right = abolish poison

Above the Grid frame is a proximity indicator and above that is my CD icons making them easily visible

Cet · 03/04/09, 10:49 AM

I`ve tried and tested a lot of raid frames, from X-Perl to Healbot to customised Pitbull.

I have finally (after 4 years of healing ^^) settled with Grid. I think the main thing that puts people off about Grid is that *out of the box* it is not that great. You do need to spend time setting it up to suit your specific healing needs.

This is how I roll (not a great pic to show the timers tho )

I don't use squares at all ( apart from missing motw) I use texts that count down which are color coded depending on time left.

Middle Lifebloom
Top right Regrowth
Bottom right Rejuv
Bottom Left Wildgrowth

Edit: thats a really bad raid shot to show off my Grid as there are few hots running >>

calderstrake · 03/04/09, 9:19 PM

Originally Posted by charminultra

Well, the main functionality that I love about HealBot is the clicking. It makes it massively easier to heal effectively and efficiently.

I agree this is a volatile subject, however, some key points are still going unrecognized by the Healbot supporters in my opinion. As I mentioned previously in this thread, Healbot relies on a feature that is functionally different from Grid, Pitbull, X-Perl and others; it uses clicking as it's main function for use.

If you are a consummate Druid and not just a guy that shows up to heal and never does anything else, this simply won't cut it. You lose desirable functionality for using non-healing spells and abilities. How do you help at the summoning stone? How do you target for Rebirth, MotW/GotW, Thorns and maybe even scrolls?

Most importantly, when your AddOn breaks or you need to go on the PTR, how do you cope with the fundamental changes that happen when you lose the crutch of clicking to heal when the rest of the world uses something else?

This is why it's called Healbot, because it reduces your choices to mindless clicking and you lose focus on the encounter and your surroundings.

charminultra · 03/05/09, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by trismegistus

I agree this is a volatile subject, however, some key points are still going unrecognized by the Healbot supporters in my opinion. As I mentioned previously in this thread, Healbot relies on a feature that is functionally different from Grid, Pitbull, X-Perl and others; it uses clicking as it's main function for use.

If you are a consummate Druid and not just a guy that shows up to heal and never does anything else, this simply won't cut it. You lose desirable functionality for using non-healing spells and abilities. How do you help at the summoning stone? How do you target for Rebirth, MotW/GotW, Thorns and maybe even scrolls?

Most importantly, when your AddOn breaks or you need to go on the PTR, how do you cope with the fundamental changes that happen when you lose the crutch of clicking to heal when the rest of the world uses something else?

This is why it's called Healbot, because it reduces your choices to mindless clicking and you lose focus on the encounter and your surroundings.

Um, HealBot isn't used just for healing spells. It's a fully functional decusrive, cleansing, and buffing raid frame. If I want to help summon at a stone I click on the portal or guess what? You can set "Target" in HealBot and have it target whomever you choose by using that bind. I have a 5 button mouse so I have a ton of options at my disposal to bind spells to via ctrl+click, alt+click, shift+click, and simply clicking. I have Revive, Rebirth, Thorns, GotW, MotW, decurse, Abolish Poison, Target, etc. all bound to different clicks that I have memorized and have no problems getting to when needed. It's been that way for a long time. Scrolls are kind of a null point since most, if not all, buffs in a raid are better and overwrite scrolls BUT you can put scrolls into HealBot as well and it'll cast it on the target if you so choose (I actually just tested this before posting since I never thought of it).

Pointing out if an add-on breaks or doesn't work on the PTR is moot since any and all add-ons are subject to that and not just HealBot. What if Grid didn't work on the PTR? What would you do then? You'd do what I would do, pop out the Blizzard raid frames and kick it old school.

Your argument is flawed and invalid much like mine was for Grid. Your assumption that HealBot users don't know how to adapt is, frankly, laughable. Everyone, not just HealBot users, get tunnel vision when healing/dpsing/tanking. It's something every player has to manage not to do. The monotony of pressing a set arrangement of buttons or clicking a set interface tends to wear on the mind and you zone out a little. Again, it happens to everyone.

Rijndael · 03/05/09, 1:28 PM

Originally Posted by trismegistus

I agree this is a volatile subject, however, some key points are still going unrecognized by the Healbot supporters in my opinion. As I mentioned previously in this thread, Healbot relies on a feature that is functionally different from Grid, Pitbull, X-Perl and others; it uses clicking as it's main function for use.

If you are a consummate Druid and not just a guy that shows up to heal and never does anything else, this simply won't cut it. You lose desirable functionality for using non-healing spells and abilities. How do you help at the summoning stone? How do you target for Rebirth, MotW/GotW, Thorns and maybe even scrolls?

Most importantly, when your AddOn breaks or you need to go on the PTR, how do you cope with the fundamental changes that happen when you lose the crutch of clicking to heal when the rest of the world uses something else?

This is why it's called Healbot, because it reduces your choices to mindless clicking and you lose focus on the encounter and your surroundings.

A few things:

(1) "Helping" at the summoning stone doesn't require targeting a raid member, only clicking once someone else does.
(2) Healbot doesn't stop you from acquiring targets by other means, in fact it's very easy to target using healbot itself, as above poster pointed out.
(3) Rebirth/GotW/Innervate are targetable via mouseover functionality built-in to Healbot. Why would one restrict this sort of usage to healing spells?
(4) Healbot works on the PTR right now (why would it be more likely to break than Grid?)
(5) Finally, are you kidding? You have a problem with the name of the addon? Because it has the word "bot"? And somehow this promotes mindless clicking? I seem to do ok on Sarth+3d, which requires a lot of environmental awareness.

Terrible post.

This thread could have been much better if people just left it alone at "whatever works best for you," and stuck to facts.

Norfair · 03/05/09, 7:15 PM

I've been on PTR today and my solid Grid setup didn't work anymore. I was seeing the timers of the other resto druid as well (e.g. when he puts a Rejuvenation on someone I can see how much seconds left). Did they change anything in 3.1? Any workaround? It was quite annoying, especially since I couldn't see Lifebloom timers (speaking of: the mana increase really really hurts!).

Logros · 03/05/09, 7:44 PM

Originally Posted by Norfair

I've been on PTR today and my solid Grid setup didn't work anymore. I was seeing the timers of the other resto druid as well (e.g. when he puts a Rejuvenation on someone I can see how much seconds left). Did they change anything in 3.1? Any workaround? It was quite annoying, especially since I couldn't see Lifebloom timers (speaking of: the mana increase really really hurts!).

Experience the same thing. All I did was check for addon updates, there weren't any post PTR release. I'd love to see a fix because we're doing some pretty heavy Ulduar pushing on the PTR, and without Grid hot tracking I'm hit pretty hard.

My DoTimer was also completely messed, it came up spamming with EVERY SINGLE hot or dot in the entire raid, right at the start of the fight. I had to disable it quickly before my computer imploded.

charminultra · 03/06/09, 7:07 AM

Been fiddling with my UI and I think I've finally become largely satisfied, especially after getting a HoT tracker (HOW DID I SURVIVE WITHOUT ONE?). Spartan UI (uses Bartender4), HealBot highly customized, Elkino Buff Bars (grows up), HotCandy (grows up), Prat, and DBM. In the blank space on the lower left is where I created a separate chat tab exclusively for global chat channels so guild/party/raid chat isn't spammed by people and their anal jokes.

With my UI scaled down in the video menu to almost as low as it can go, I get a pretty ample amount of screen room on my 19" widescreen LCD. I really enjoy this UI a lot and don't find myself lacking anything. You can actually see HealBot's binds just below it for the spells bound to single mouse clicks with no modifier key (ctrl, alt, shift) and that it's the main spells I use on mouse 1-3 and utility/buff for 4-5. It changes whenever you hit a modifier key just in case you've forgotten what you've bound.

Najtrok · 03/08/09, 9:48 AM

I have a pretty simple Macro Problem, maybe truly idiotic :-/

There are three different Healthstones, I want one button, not three, it should show if I have one (I don't care count, but the highlighting when the item is present). I do not care wether it shows the right tooltip, it may also show me the highest healstone even if I dont have that one. But it should then light up too if I dont have that, but another one.

Think its a pretty simple macro, but just dunno howto get it working.