Sartharion 3D Druid MT tips - Page 2

Boevis · 01/15/09, 6:44 PM

You are talking about % increases and decreases, I don't see how what order they're applied in matter.
Keep in mind, 25% is the only guaranteed resist number with feasible gear
14000 * .75 * 2 * 1.75 * 1.5 is identical to (14000 * .75) * 2 * 1.75 * 1.5 = 55125 * .98 * .88 * .97 = 46113

Unless what it's doing is (14000 * 2 * 1.75 * 1.5) - (14000 * .25) = 70000, which I doubt

gobbles · 01/15/09, 6:57 PM

I found FR for this fight to be highly unpredictable. Resisted amounts seem to vary a lot.

I didn't bother trying to do the maths, however, because it kind of doesn't matter.

a) at 50-51k Hp - around 38ish after the aura - the only thing with a realistic chance of killing you is a torment buffed breath. I have yet to be convinced much of anything will keep you alive from a totally buffed breath without some form of "clickie" assistance.

b) Clicking of the torment - ie Attacking with a special with around 1 sec on the cast - seemed to work pretty well for me, even though I play in Australia with a consistent ping of 250 ms +

c) A bit of extra AC helped a lot with the physical damage as the fight wore on. If you have a few pieces like Defender's Code or a Good tanking staff then that is more than enough AC with the frost set. Next patch I can only see our mitigation for this fight go up, since we will get more AC from leather and be able to use pure stam rings without losing AC. (on another note a bit of hit goes a long way in making sure you land that "special" to take of torment.)

In all honesty, the main healing issue we had was the OTs and dps dieing to to torment, not me. We ended up jumping into portals after Vesperon landed and the fight became pretty straightforward after that. (Note: we tend to raid with only 1-2 resto shaman so maybe our raid healing was a little low) Dont be scared to move away from the "zerg" strat of killing tene + shad before taking portals, It doesn't always make the fight easier.

killets · 01/15/09, 8:01 PM

I'm not sure you can use wowwiki as a source on the new resist table calculations, since they were done back in the days when the granularity of resistance was in increments of 25%. To be quite honest, I don't know the exact mechanic of spell resist now, but here is an example log from our last Sarth 3D kill:

23:55'57.466	Sartharion Flame Breath hits Killerets for 10827 Fire.(6342 Resisted)
23:56'13.149	Sartharion Flame Breath hits Killerets for 13812 Fire.(5394 Resisted)
23:56'33.188	Sartharion Flame Breath hits Killerets for 16151 Fire.(4055 Resisted)
23:56'46.915	Sartharion Flame Breath hits Killerets for 14124 Fire.(3546 Resisted)
23:56'58.911	Sartharion Flame Breath hits Killerets for 14400 Fire.(3615 Resisted)
23:57'20.067	Sartharion Flame Breath hits Killerets for 26790 Fire.(3923 Resisted)
23:57'32.902	Sartharion Flame Breath hits Killerets for 22687 Fire.(5695 Resisted)
23:57'42.183	Sartharion Flame Breath hits Killerets for 22601 Fire.(3310 Resisted)
23:57'58.188	Sartharion Flame Breath hits Killerets for 27691 Fire.(7724 Resisted)
23:58'12.727	Sartharion Flame Breath hits Killerets for 38848 Fire.(5573 Resisted)
23:58'25.892	Sartharion Flame Breath hits Killerets for 20438 Fire.(7981 Resisted)
23:58'34.770	Sartharion Flame Breath hits Killerets for 18014 Fire.(8039 Resisted)

This avg'd out to -22%. The sample size is small though, so I guess it could be just bad luck, but that was with 271 FR (I use FR helm enchant, a green FR cloak with FR enchant, my old Phoenix Fire Ring + Mixology Chromatic Flask).

p.s. I survived the 39k blast via Survival Instincts.

Inaiwae · 01/16/09, 3:27 AM

Originally Posted by Habba

I believe it is related to the heart beat aura reapply. The damage component of the Twilight Torment Debuff has a 1 second cool down. The trick is to time the cool down as the other negative effects are believed to reapply once this debuff's cool down is up.

As noted before, practice with a healer just by pulling Vesperon without engaging Sartharion and simply try to learn your timing since it will be affected by your latency. Also, there is no reason to not stress safety and apply the mitigation cool downs anyway so accidental tank death is minimized.

Bah maybe its because of morning but i dont understand what you mean by the sentence i highlighted.

I have autoattack off. I hit mangle cca 1 sec before cast is finished, which means the debuff falls off cca 0.7-0.5 secs before the breath lands. I am not sure what else should i be timing?

Boevis · 01/16/09, 4:51 AM

6342 * 2 = 12684 * .88 * .97 = 10827

First hit was a 50% resist, 2nd was 50% with Shadron Acolyte.

For the rest, I'm not exactly sure what I'm seeing, did you edit out absorbs, or were some of these not just Shadron Debuff?

• Caniki · 01/16/09, 9:02 AM

We got our first Heroic:Sarth+3 kill last night. I tanked Sarth (I hesitate to say Main Tank, because all of the tanks jobs are important), here are a few of my observations. I used the Polar set, plus pretty much best in slot naxx25 gear. I had 4pc T7.25 for the Barkskin duration set bonus, and used the Alchemist Stone and Essence of Gossamer. I didn't have any fire resist gear, just a paladin aura. I used the Effulgent Skyflare Diamond meta. After raid buffs, I had exactly 50k HP, I didn't bother looking at armor since it doesn't really matter. After the pull and you have the positioning correct, the fight is pretty simple until the second and third drakes are down. I did my best to juggle Twilight Torment, but the best thing we did was to coordinate a cooldown usage rotation over vent. In addition to my Survival Instincts, Guardian Spirit and Pain Suppression were used to mitigate the large breaths. My raid bloodlusted when the first drake was at 50%, killed all of the adds, and then killed the second drake and third drakes. After the third drake was down they cleared out the portals, and then killed Sartharion. It took us about three nights of practice. We ended up with six healers and 5 tanks since we previously had problems with add management.

Habba · 01/16/09, 9:50 AM

Originally Posted by Inaiwae

Bah maybe its because of morning but i dont understand what you mean by the sentence i highlighted.

I have autoattack off. I hit mangle cca 1 sec before cast is finished, which means the debuff falls off cca 0.7-0.5 secs before the breath lands. I am not sure what else should i be timing?

That's it. The only other factor in there is your latency which you'll either learn/wipe/hit the safety net (CDs). What I was trying to communicate is that the twilight torment reflective damage has a 1 second cool down. This means that when proc'd it will not damage you again for another full second. When the effect is triggered it consumes the damage increase. The current mechanic is to completely remove the debuff and let the aura's heart beat tick reapply the debuff. This is why even though the cool down is 1 second latency and just plain bad luck can cause you to regain the buff just before the breath hits.

The only thing you can try to time is the debuff removal and that would be halfway through the breath cast. Really you should be using cool downs as a 'just in case' type measure.

Vaccine · 01/16/09, 10:05 AM

The problem is the Global Cooldown that can be caused preventing you from using Barkskin and the like as oh shit and having to use them as a saftey net. We were doing 10 man:

Breath 1: Guardian Spirit - Spell - World of Warcraft
Breath 2: Hand of Sacrifice - Spell - World of Warcraft
Breath 3: SI + Barkskin (Casting at 9 seconds after the last breath as in the main 3d thread it said the minimum time between breaths was 14 seconds)

After that the first Vesperon acolyte is dead and we can recover a little and then when we launch into the next breaths where I'm on my own to ensure I knocked it off, its very hit and miss and I've certainly experienced sub 1 second removals only for it to pop back up.

We were also talking for 10 man of getting both the holy and the ret to spec this gem:
Divine Guardian - Spell - World of Warcraft

Which just looks amazing for this fight, not only does it cut the breah to about 30k if you miss, it sucks up damage from your other tanks and raid members giving the healers (if chained) a full 24 seconds of 30% less raid damage which has got to be handy.

I'm thinking of taking the group back with this and using the second pallys hand on breath 4, then the two pallys DG for 5 and 6. Vesperon should be dead along with his 2nd acolyte by then and thats pretty much the fight done.

Lobonija · 01/16/09, 11:23 AM

The easiest way I've found for the "critical breaths" is to simply stop attacking for that period of time and waiting for him to cast, loading up a maul + mangle 1/3 through the cast and enabling survival instincts for the first breath. Barkskin + mighty fire protection potion for the second breath, and a guardian spirit for the third. That's all we ever use and attacking 1/3 of the way through the cast seems to be the sweet spot for me ( probably unique to my latency? ) as I'm not really ever hit by large breaths anymore, and the guardian spirit never blooms.

Falk · 01/16/09, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Pioneerjd

Also, clearing Twilight Torment is certainly non-trivial. It's reapplied very randomly, and with the pitiful Hit/Expertise you will have in a full Polar set, you'll have plenty of times that it simply won't go away.

Mobs don't dodge/block/parry while casting. And 40hit/40sta food is your friend!

killets · 01/16/09, 8:00 PM

Originally Posted by Boevis

6342 * 2 = 12684 * .88 * .97 = 10827

First hit was a 50% resist, 2nd was 50% with Shadron Acolyte.

For the rest, I'm not exactly sure what I'm seeing, did you edit out absorbs, or were some of these not just Shadron Debuff?

I don't think I editted anything. But here is the WWS, maybe it'll help?
Wow Web Stats

Originally Posted by Vaccine

We were doing 10 man:

Breath 1: Guardian Spirit - Spell - World of Warcraft

Originally Posted by Lobonija

Barkskin + mighty fire protection potion for the second breath, and a guardian spirit for the third.

I was under the impression that Guardian Spirit didn't work on Bears (there are many many posts regarding this on the WoWForums). Basically, I think you guys just got lucky.

Valerian · 01/16/09, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by killets

I was under the impression that Guardian Spirit didn't work on Bears (there are many many posts regarding this on the WoWForums). Basically, I think you guys just got lucky.

I've had Guardian Spirit save me in bear form. Unless its a bug that doesn't always happen...

Boevis · 01/17/09, 4:36 AM

I am clearly out of touch with how resists work now, it seems that it no longer follows a 0-25-50-75-100 percentage scale.

Inaiwae · 01/17/09, 4:52 AM

I am also quite sure that guardian spirit works sometimes. I estimate i used spirit cca 10 times so far and i recall 1 failure but i didnt know about the bug so i just dismissed it (i survived).

Emrex · 01/17/09, 2:17 PM

My experience with this fight has been very similar to the others. The first few times we did the fight we actually did it without any kind of save the bear rotation, which I would not recommend. One of our priests has recently switched to Disc. and between Spirit, when it decides to work, and PS that is usually enough to get us through the TT phase of the fight.

For those of you that are Leatherworkers do you feel that the +90 Stam or the +60 Fire Resist to bracers is more beneficial in this fight? I personally am using the FR to help mitigate a little more of the Breath and random cyclone damage. I haven't found the loss in health to be an issue.

Nightcrowler, kind of in summary of what the others have said. The fight is really only going to be bad for the Sarth tank and his/her healers during the Twilight Torment phase. As soon as Vesperon opens his portal I stop attacking/using anything that will activate my GCD. During this phase you will die if you take a full breath attack from him. Several ways to mitigate the breath are:
Pain Suppression from a Discipline Priest.
Hand of Sacrifice from a Paladin.
Barkskin/SI from yourself.
Guardian Spirit from a Holy Priest. (Although like the others I have seen this not work 100% in the past, haven't noticed any issues on Sarth 3 though.)
In addition to mitigating the breath with a cooldown, you will want to try and avoid/dance the TT debuff. When Sarth begins casting his breath, you will need to find a spot that works for you based on latency and close enough to the end of the cast, use an instant attack like Mangle or swipe. This will trigger the TT debuff and you will take 2-3k damage, the debuff drops for a very brief period of time (between 1 and 2 seconds).
Expect to see between 2 and 4 breaths during the phase with TT and Shadron both alive. Once Shadron is down it is pretty much game over. You no longer need to worry about a save the bear rotation.