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Old 01/19/09, 5:13 AM   #31
Gallowglass
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Nordrassil (EU)
We 1shot sarth+2 last week and are planning to start work on sarth +3 this week. I have a set that gets me ~55k buffed (polar pieces + PVP pieces).

My guild is also in a nice situation in that we have 1 pretty well geared tank of each class, meaning that along with me, we also have a well geared DK tank. My main question is wether it would be better to have me tank sarth, or the DK. It prettymuch seems to come down to my larger health buffer Vs his better on use mitigation abilities such as boneshield, icebound fort and anti-magic shell.

Have any of you experiened both classes tanking and have any input as to which seems more effective given that both are available?

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Old 01/19/09, 5:35 AM   #32
ninor
Piston Honda
 
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Tauren Druid
 
<nam>
Stormscale (EU)
I think the biggest difference between a DK tank and a druid is tanking the adds. From my experience a DK would have a lot easier time tanking the drakes and all the adds than a druid will. In 10 man 3D having control of the adds is very important, probably one of the most important aspects of the fight. It helps your healers tremendously to keep the MT up when they don't have a blaze hitting them. Tanking Sartharion himself is easily done by any tanking class as long as you have enough gear to not get one-shotted and know how to remove the debuff before breaths.


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Old 01/19/09, 7:11 AM   #33
Gallowglass
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Night Elf Druid
 
Nordrassil (EU)
Sorry, I should mention that I am specifically talking about 25man. Last week (2 drakes) we had myself on Sarth, a pali on the blazes/welps and a warrior on the drakes with the DK sitting out. In tank chat, both the pali and DK seemed to think that the DK would make a better tank for when we do it with 3 drakes up.

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Old 01/19/09, 8:50 AM   #34
Vaccine
Mr. Sandman
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by Gallowglass View Post
Sorry, I should mention that I am specifically talking about 25man. Last week (2 drakes) we had myself on Sarth, a pali on the blazes/welps and a warrior on the drakes with the DK sitting out. In tank chat, both the pali and DK seemed to think that the DK would make a better tank for when we do it with 3 drakes up.

We use 4 tanks usually, 2 on the adds. How many healers are you using? Our breakthrough came when we dropped from 7 to 6 to 5 healers for it. The extra DPS lets you down Tenebron before Shadron and unless you're unlucky on walls, Shadron before Vesperon. This pretty much trivialises the fight as you don't get the cross over of Power of Shadron - Spell - World of Warcraft and Twilight Torment - Spell - World of Warcraft together making it so much easier. After that you just have to have someone that can take the blows of Sartharion once all the drakes are down, its a non-trivial increase in damage taken, its why I don't advocate using the Polar set for 25 man. Either that or you can have the drake Warrior tank in his normal tanking set taunt it off you at that point.

As for Guardian Spirit I've never had any issues with it and have seen it several times save me from a killing blow and top me up (whilst disappearing as its consumed).

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Old 01/19/09, 9:15 AM   #35
Gallowglass
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Nordrassil (EU)
Originally Posted by Vaccine View Post
have the drake Warrior tank in his normal tanking set taunt it off you at that point.
This was my thinking also. My main question still stands - assuming we do have a number of critical breaths do deal with, what is better from a healing/surviving perspective while we are learning the fight - a feral with a high HP buffer with barkskin/SI for 1 breath, or a DK with multiple CDs available to him. Assuming both will also have outside cooldowns being used on them. Do you feel the difference between the 2 tanks trivial or that the benefits of 1 outweighs the other.

Much like a how feral makes the best OT on patch, or how a warrior/pali's block mechanic makes them better at taking a lot of small hits. All tanks are obviously viable, some just more-so in specific instances.

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Old 01/19/09, 10:28 AM   #36
Daboran
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
DKs are pretty awesome at tanking the whelps/adds to be honest. Taunt, Deathgrip, static and "mobile" aoe damage skills. Given the choice I'd have them doing that every time.

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Old 01/19/09, 12:32 PM   #37
Habba
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dark Iron
Originally Posted by Gallowglass View Post
We 1shot sarth+2 last week and are planning to start work on sarth +3 this week. I have a set that gets me ~55k buffed (polar pieces + PVP pieces).

My guild is also in a nice situation in that we have 1 pretty well geared tank of each class, meaning that along with me, we also have a well geared DK tank. My main question is wether it would be better to have me tank sarth, or the DK. It prettymuch seems to come down to my larger health buffer Vs his better on use mitigation abilities such as boneshield, icebound fort and anti-magic shell.

Have any of you experiened both classes tanking and have any input as to which seems more effective given that both are available?
Sounds like someone wasn't happy about sitting to me. The DK or the Druid will be effective given that both players are equally skilled.

From what I've heard/seen on 3 drake a DK's cool downs is what makes or breaks it. If he has enough to last while you guys kill shadron, then he's fine but once all 3 adds are down you better have a mitigation geared tank taunt because the DK is going to spike hard with 75% increased physical from Sartharion.

Again that is from what I've seen, it could be that I've just seen some terrible DKs and that they do fine tanking him after all the drakes are down.

Last edited by Habba : 01/19/09 at 12:33 PM. Reason: I got the dragons mixed up :(

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Old 01/19/09, 1:33 PM   #38
Gnosh
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Archimonde
We tried (again) last night without much luck. A lot of it comes down to people not dieing to void zones/adds but timing during the breaths seemed difficult too.

One thing I noticed is that I can never see the TT debuff. I even set up a MSBT alert but it never went off. I don't know if this is a bug or you're supposed to just assume it's always up after the disciple is spawned.

I'm going to suggest we drop down to 6 and 5 dps and see if that works better. Save BL for the second drake maybe then.

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Old 01/19/09, 1:54 PM   #39
kalbear
Bald Bull
 
Tauren Druid
 
Balnazzar
BLing on the first or the second drake doesn't really matter unless you can reliably get the first drake down before the second drake without a bloodlust. As long as they overlap at all, they essentially share one health pool (since you won't be killing the second one before the first one).

If you can't see the TT debuff for whatever reason, you must set up a cooldown rotation for the breaths. Otherwise you will die. The other option is to stop attacking entirely when Vesperon hits (turn off autoattacks too) and make sure to only attack when a breath is coming. Even then, I'd want to see the debuff get removed.

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Old 01/19/09, 1:56 PM   #40
Pioneerjd
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Khadgar
Originally Posted by Gnosh View Post
One thing I noticed is that I can never see the TT debuff. I even set up a MSBT alert but it never went off. I don't know if this is a bug or you're supposed to just assume it's always up after the disciple is spawned.
I had the same issue seeing the Torment debuff - I set up a custom Grid Debuff Aura as a 99 priority center icon, and it appeared consistently (it looked like the Vampiric Embrace icon). However, I can't get BuffBars to find it, nor does my custom SCT Alert show it. I have a hunch it has something to do with the source of the debuff being in the twilight realm, but that doesn't explain why Grid shows it.

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Old 01/19/09, 10:23 PM   #41
cana
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Alleria (EU)
Originally Posted by Pioneerjd View Post
I had the same issue seeing the Torment debuff - I set up a custom Grid Debuff Aura as a 99 priority center icon, and it appeared consistently (it looked like the Vampiric Embrace icon). However, I can't get BuffBars to find it, nor does my custom SCT Alert show it. I have a hunch it has something to do with the source of the debuff being in the twilight realm, but that doesn't explain why Grid shows it.
I guess that's because Grid only updates Debuffs in an intervall greater than the time TT actually is inactive.
For Sarthaion+3, I'm using a seperate group of Elkano's BuffBars with really big bars solely filtering my own debuffs, works fine.

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Old 01/20/09, 5:26 AM   #42
Daboran
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Best and least-fussy way I've found to deal with debuffs on yourself is to install Buffalo. Move the debuff frame to above your character's head and enlarge by a little.
This way you can always see debuffs on your own character without having to look for them elsewhere in the UI. Also it's very fast to respond and I find it 100% reliable for attacking to remove TT before each Flame Breath hits.

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Old 01/20/09, 6:12 AM   #43
Falk
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Falk
Night Elf Druid
 
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Strange. Elkano's Buff Bars shows Torment just fine... If you have problems seeing the debuff, are you using any buff/debuff mods, or the default interface?

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Old 01/20/09, 10:59 AM   #44
Monedula
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Tauren Druid
 
Defias Brotherhood (EU)
<removed>

Last edited by Monedula : 01/20/09 at 12:25 PM.

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Old 01/20/09, 11:29 AM   #45
Thessaly
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kargath
Originally Posted by Monedula View Post
If you want more stamina scrolls can help you there. Latest PTR notes and mmo-champoin stated, most likely the 3.0.8 patchnotes say:

This means that fortitude no longer overwrites scroll of stamina VIII.
That is 132 extra stamina. Very useful for this fight.
I don't think they stack, it just means that a larger buff won't remove the scroll buff. It's not particularly relevant for the stamina scrolls, since the stamina buffs are all longer than 30 min. The problem was with agi and str scrolls being overwritten by totems or Horn of Winter. The wording of the patch doesn't imply that they'll stack, just that they can coexist.

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