Hey guys. I'm not a Moonkin but I'm relatively familiar with the class. I run a guild that sticks primarily to 10man content (some of our guys have 1 or 2 25man epics from Arch or a random pug or something like that) so it's sometimes hard to know exactly where my guys should be for DPS. I know Moonkin DPS can shift dramatically depending on the RNG factors involved but I was hoping you could take a look at our moonkin (who I consider one of the better players in the guild) and tell me if there's any way he can increase his DPS.
The link is for Patchwerk. No heroism this time no mage either so its a bit of an unfriendly caster scenario (although our warlock still pulls 4k+ dps).
Cursory inspection: IS/MF uptime very low. SF crit bad, which is probably a sign of poor Eclipse usage. Some gems are weird; and spec is bad. Have him review the threads around here.
Seems like our raidleader did take the shaman out of our group for that fight. I'm usually grouped with our elemental shaman or one of our healshamans, so I didn't think about the heroic presence buff. Seems like I got to attuned to this buff, I apologize for this silly question of mine. I know that I'm just hitcapped when I have the heroic presence buff, if I have it not, for example in 10 man raids, I change equip to have a higher hitrating. I hope my english isn't to bad since I'm no native speaker.
You have the gear to do 1k more dps, atleast.
Your critrate on starfire is very low, which is a vague indication that you aren't handling eclipse well
That's what I hear. I'm not sure what's going on, honestly. I might be getting a little latency, because I noticed that on my first two eclipses, I got off 3 wrath instead of the standard 2, but the rest of the casting during eclipse was SF spam. However, when I look at parses for folks over 5.5k, I notice that their average SF hits are 500 higher than mine, and there max SF hits are often 2k or more higher than mine. The same for Wrath (500 avg higher and 1k higher on max crit). I'm guessing this might have something to do with Idol + Trinket combo, since I'm still lugging Mark of the War Prisoner. The extra 590 or 765 sp from Sundial or dying curse could be the difference that I'm seeing.
I'd welcome anyone taking the time to look at the log and let me know if they see what I'm missing.
That's what I hear. I'm not sure what's going on, honestly. I might be getting a little latency, because I noticed that on my first two eclipses, I got off 3 wrath instead of the standard 2, but the rest of the casting during eclipse was SF spam. However, when I look at parses for folks over 5.5k, I notice that their average SF hits are 500 higher than mine, and there max SF hits are often 2k or more higher than mine. The same for Wrath (500 avg higher and 1k higher on max crit). I'm guessing this might have something to do with Idol + Trinket combo, since I'm still lugging Mark of the War Prisoner. The extra 590 or 765 sp from Sundial or dying curse could be the difference that I'm seeing.
I'd welcome anyone taking the time to look at the log and let me know if they see what I'm missing.
I can't see your armory, but it looks like you don't have the SF idol. Damage early in the fight seems to be consistent with (excluding when you had the War Prisoner on-use):
2585 buffed +spell
IS: (919) Glyph and 2t7
MF: (1198) Glyph. 0/2 Improved MF
SF: (5600-5710) No idol (if you have idol, you weren't casting top rank)
You got off to a slow start:
You cast MF twice (one second apart) at the start of the fight. You did the same thing after your first Eclipse.
You did not cast IS until after the first Eclipse finished.
Your first SF, during your first Eclipse, did not land until after MF faded, so no benefit from SF glyph.
You did get either 6 or 7 SF's during each Eclipse. I think that is good, but we do see some WWS where people did better.
It does look like SF crit rate was unlucky. You had about 50% from both Wrath and Starfall, but Starfire was no better.
Suggestions:
1) Don't double-cast MF
2) On a fight that is sure to be under 3 minutes, save Starfall for use during the first Eclipse cooldown (when your nukes are least valuable). I suspect you weren't sure the fight would be that short, so Starfall at the beginning is ok.
3) With MF already down at the start of Eclipse (or even after the first SF), I prefer to cast MF during Eclipse. Not everyone agrrees with this though.
4) Get a better RNG
I can't see your armory, but it looks like you don't have the SF idol. Damage early in the fight seems to be consistent with (excluding when you had the War Prisoner on-use):
2585 buffed +spell
IS: (919) Glyph and 2t7
MF: (1198) Glyph. 0/2 Improved MF
SF: (5600-5710) No idol (if you have idol, you weren't casting top rank)
You got off to a slow start:
You cast MF twice (one second apart) at the start of the fight. You did the same thing after your first Eclipse.
You did not cast IS until after the first Eclipse finished.
Your first SF, during your first Eclipse, did not land until after MF faded, so no benefit from SF glyph.
You did get either 6 or 7 SF's during each Eclipse. I think that is good, but we do see some WWS where people did better.
It does look like SF crit rate was unlucky. You had about 50% from both Wrath and Starfall, but Starfire was no better.
Suggestions:
1) Don't double-cast MF
2) On a fight that is sure to be under 3 minutes, save Starfall for use during the first Eclipse cooldown (when your nukes are least valuable). I suspect you weren't sure the fight would be that short, so Starfall at the beginning is ok.
3) With MF already down at the start of Eclipse (or even after the first SF), I prefer to cast MF during Eclipse. Not everyone agrrees with this though.
4) Get a better RNG
Your numbers are pretty much spot on. We had an elemental shaman for the first time last night, which really helped casters a lot.
I got off to a slow start because my raid started off without me. Was AFK tucking my kids in, and it took a little longer than they liked. But I came back pretty quickly after fight started.
The MF double spam has to do with latency. I usually spam my buttons until I see the MF proc, but because of latency issues, I will sometimes not see MF proc until after GCD. For some reason, this only happens with MF, and not with IS, possibly because of the animation.It probably wouldn't cost me much to just slow down and press it once and trust the spell queue, but for some reason, I will miss MF from time to time when I do. (IFF, wait for GCD, MF, wait for GCD, IS, and when it's all done, only IFF and IS are on the target, and no MF miss in my log. *shrug*)
And yeah, I noticed on my first two eclipses that I blew a 3rd Wrath somehow, and that could have been a SF to allow MF extension. I need to watch more closely when Eclipse procs.
The MF double spam has to do with latency. I usually spam my buttons until I see the MF proc, but because of latency issues, I will sometimes not see MF proc until after GCD. For some reason, this only happens with MF, and not with IS, possibly because of the animation.
I was having similar problems, but more with IS. I think that perhaps Squawk and Awe doesn't show the IS counter until the first tick occurs.
I started using tell-me-when to let me know when things (including MF and IS) are ready. It is a bit more in-your-face than Squawk. Now for my DoTs I just do a quick double-tap and go onto my next spell. If the double-tap failed, I'll know to just try again after one Wrath (or whatever).
It is much better to have MF down for an extra couple of seconds than to cast it twice in a row. MF down for two seconds costs several hundred damage. A wasted GCD costs a few thousand damage.
I went moonkin for the first time this week (used to be cat). My dps was more than I expected, since my gear is far from best in slot. I kept moonfire up as much as I could and IS only right after Eclipse and right before the ICD ended (sometimes clipping IS). Let out the trees right before heroism + warrior battle shout, haste pot during eclipse. I also had pretty much all conceivable caster buffs :D
Even though I was pleased with my dps, it would be great if a more experienced moonkin could look at my Patchwerk and tell me if they see any flaws: Wow Web Stats
Also, should I haste pot during eclipse or during heroism+eclipse? Does it matter?
I was having similar problems, but more with IS. I think that perhaps Squawk and Awe doesn't show the IS counter until the first tick occurs.
I started using tell-me-when to let me know when things (including MF and IS) are ready. It is a bit more in-your-face than Squawk. Now for my DoTs I just do a quick double-tap and go onto my next spell. If the double-tap failed, I'll know to just try again after one Wrath (or whatever).
It is much better to have MF down for an extra couple of seconds than to cast it twice in a row. MF down for two seconds costs several hundred damage. A wasted GCD costs a few thousand damage.
I get this all the time. Is there an event that can be caught on cast to start the timer then rather than on the first tick? Or are we wrong about how S&A handles it?
I get this all the time. Is there an event that can be caught on cast to start the timer then rather than on the first tick? Or are we wrong about how S&A handles it?
There's an entry thrown to the combat log when the debuff is applied (I think there's also an event fired). I catch this event properly and turn on the IS bar, but for some reason when I check for IS debuffs during the next OnUpdate(), the debuff isn't there sometimes. This causes SAA to turn off the IS bar and stop checking. I'm pretty sure it's related at least in part to latency, because I've made some changes to the code that seemed to fix it (1.1, I think, in particular, showed a dramatic decrease in the frequency of this bug occurring). There's not a whole lot I can do to fix it, either, because that would lead to false positives, i.e. showing IS being up when it's not, though perhaps not for the entire "duration".
To be quite honest, one of the reasons I haven't done anything more about it since 1.1 is that I haven't needed to. It's working perfectly on my machine. This also makes it hard to determine what's causing the bug, as I can't recreate it.
Here is a parse from my most recent PW. I know that I have a few upgrades left to get (Pennant cloak, KT ring etc) but am more worried about my rotation. I am using the standard MF/IS/W and procing Lunar Eclipses, so any input would be more than welcome.
1. Treants did not get full heroism (I cast them at the start since we usually hero right away, but heroism caster was delayed by about 6 seconds) they did get a battleshout though.
2. My insect swarm uptime seems pretty high compared to parses that break the 5.5k barrier.
3. MF uptime is only around 80%, should I consider switching to the 2 MF in an eclipse rotation?
Thanks for any input, I seem to always hover around 5.3k DPS and am just at a complete loss at where to go from here, I know the Dragon Soul trinket would be nice, and the holy torch from KT, but I do not think those are what are keeping me from doing more.
Im really looking for the best overall rotation. I use the basic MF/IS/Wrath till Eclipse then SF spam.
Now heres where im a little lost..
If IS is extinguished during Eclipse when do i refresh? I saw someone on these forums mention to cast it right after Eclipse ends or a second before so it can be recast before the next wrath casts. Is this about right?
And my last question is, After eclipse is over and on CD, other than refreshing MF, what should we be casting? Wrath? Starfall? I realize after the CD for eclipse is up we dot and wrath again but from the point that eclipse ends to the point where it comes off of CD what would we be doing for those 15 secs or so to maximize our dps? Thanks ahead of time.
And Adorielle i want to say you, and quite a few others on this forum are genius'
Patchwerk 5500 dps, 3m20 fight : Wow Web Stats
No BM hunter or ret paladin for the 3% buff, the rest was covered.
Mostly BiS gear, only missing IoDS, Pennant Cloack and KT ring.
Percent casting 0,911626868
Average latency 0,160976187
IS Uptime 0,736318408
MF Uptime 0,731343284
Wasn't optimal on treants + heroism (cast too early, so they only had 12s heroism) and failed on the timing at which to use speed potion (was spamming Eclipse'd SF and potion at the same time and spell queuing seems to take priority on using items).
Patchwerk 5500 dps, 3m20 fight : Wow Web Stats
No BM hunter or ret paladin for the 3% buff, the rest was covered.
Mostly BiS gear, only missing IoDS, Pennant Cloack and KT ring.
Percent casting 0,911626868
Average latency 0,160976187
IS Uptime 0,736318408
MF Uptime 0,731343284
Wasn't optimal on treants + heroism (cast too early, so they only had 12s heroism) and failed on the timing at which to use speed potion (was spamming Eclipse'd SF and potion at the same time and spell queuing seems to take priority on using items).
And your gear with mine, you should be able to improve that quite a bit (rng dependant ofc)
I'll be back later, but your armory shows you @ 170 hit rating. That cant possibly be correct can it?
Your IS doing more dmg then MF tells me you are doing something wrong.
I finally got my moonkin to break their habit of putting up IFF when there's spriests and a feral druid in the raid. They're both pretty far from BiS but I still think they could be doing better.
Could I get a link page 1 somewhere of that %cast time/uptime sheet, or whatever it is?
I'm using 2 IS per cycles against only 1 MF at the moment. Since IS and MF have the same base damage, MF is longer but casting IS more often results in equivalent uptime and thus equivalent damage.
In terms of errors, i have 2 wasted Eclipse GCD's (1 for trees and one for IS, where i should have seen the Eclipse proc and decided to not cast them), and forgot to refresh IS at the end of one Eclipse. That and being stupid on tree's vs heroism timing and not managing to drink the speed potion until 5s left on that Eclipse proc.
Also, your fight is 1min shorter, that's going to make comparisons difficult.
Edit : there's a link for the wwscalc sheet on page1 of this thread, search for Adorielle's posts.
I'm using 2 IS per cycles against only 1 MF at the moment. Since IS and MF have the same base damage, MF is longer but casting IS more often results in equivalent uptime and thus equivalent damage.
Edit : there's a link for the wwscalc sheet on page1 of this thread, search for Adorielle's posts.
True, the one minute time difference means direct comparison is hard, one thing though (correct me if im wrong):
Mf does more dmg then IS pr tick and lasts longer, this means you spend less time casting it and it does more dmg then IS. (Which means you should prioritize it over IS)
Mf does more dmg then IS pr tick and lasts longer, this means you spend less time casting it and it does more dmg then IS. (Which means you should prioritize it over IS)
IS's timing makes it easier to keep up longer because it fits in nicely both at the end of Eclipse proc and at the end of the Eclipse ICD. Whereas for MF you'll probably only be able to use it once per cycle in most cases (ie except when it takes a long time to proc Eclipse).
There was a debate on clipping MF or not to keep it up permanently, and wether to use MF only once at a specific part in the cycle or to try to refresh it as soon as possible (except during Eclipse), the problem with that is that while it might result in one more MF cast over the fight, you also risk losing some damage to MF's uptime being lower during the Eclipse (if you have iIS).
I don't think there's been anything completely conclusive on that matter yet, i've been trying both at times without much difference.
I'm looking for any suggestions to improve my dps, I am still missing alot of BiS items since I haven't been 80 long however here is last weeks naxx25 patchwork WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish .
after comparing some wws/wow meters with one of my own (Wow Web Stats, Patchwerk), I noticed my avg starfire dmg being really low.
I´m sure of using rank 10 of starfire and having a correct specc (2 points in intensity because of mana issues with sartharion 3d nonheroic), I also used flask of frostwyrm and +46 spelldmg bufffood. An elemental shaman was in the raid.
Compared to the combatlog of Maghun (WoW Meter Online) my avg starfire dmg is about 400 lower although we should reach about the same amount of spelldmg.
According to wrath calcs v1.3.1 my average starfire dmg should be about 5,8k.
I have any clue what I´m doing wrong and hopefully someone in this forum is able to help me.
Any further advice would be appreciated.
PS: I´m not an native speaker so hopefully everything is understandable.
after comparing some wws/wow meters with one of my own (Wow Web Stats, Patchwerk), I noticed my avg starfire dmg being really low.
I´m sure of using rank 10 of starfire and having a correct specc (2 points in intensity because of mana issues with sartharion 3d nonheroic), I also used flask of frostwyrm and +46 spelldmg bufffood. An elemental shaman was in the raid.
Compared to the combatlog of Maghun (WoW Meter Online) my avg starfire dmg is about 400 lower although we should reach about the same amount of spelldmg.
According to wrath calcs v1.3.1 my average starfire dmg should be about 5,8k.
I have any clue what I´m doing wrong and hopefully someone in this forum is able to help me.
Any further advice would be appreciated.
PS: I´m not an native speaker so hopefully everything is understandable.
As Humbaba already mentioned, most of that difference in average starfire damage is likely due to the [Idol of the Shooting Star].
03/20/09, 8:59 PM
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