Moonkin WWS Thread - Page 2

Lilija · 02/06/09, 4:45 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

At what points in your Eclipse cycle do you cast IS?

Never during eclipse proc, however, I still wonder if I should refresh just when previous IS ended or wait for MF to end so I don't have to many breaks in spamming SF.

Most commonly the it looks like this:
IS->MF->wrath (eclipse)->SF (eclipse ends)
(a) if both DoTs run out during eclipse refresh them both and go back to SF spamming till eclipse CD ends
(b) if MF has few seconds to go I keep spamming SF till it ends and then refresh both DoTs

Quite often I have some DoT problem when eclipse CD ends since usually there is few seconds left on IS and I already have to switch to wrath, make 1-2 casts and then refresh IS then again few wraths and refresh MF. Of course depending on eclipse proc, I might not make it to IS refreshing.

EDIT: Oh, there was a feral but no SP ... so yes I did use IFF. I think I am too tired today to calculate anything properly :P

• Hamlet · 02/06/09, 4:58 PM

Originally Posted by Lilija

Never during eclipse proc, however, I still wonder if I should refresh just when previous IS ended or wait for MF to end so I don't have to many breaks in spamming SF.

Most commonly the it looks like this:
IS->MF->wrath (eclipse)->SF (eclipse ends)
(a) if both DoTs run out during eclipse refresh them both and go back to SF spamming till eclipse CD ends
(b) if MF has few seconds to go I keep spamming SF till it ends and then refresh both DoTs

Quite often I have some DoT problem when eclipse CD ends since usually there is few seconds left on IS and I already have to switch to wrath, make 1-2 casts and then refresh IS then again few wraths and refresh MF. Of course depending on eclipse proc, I might not make it to IS refreshing.

EDIT: Oh, there was a feral but no SP ... so yes I did use IFF. I think I am too tired today to calculate anything properly :P

IS refreshing should have nothing to do with MF refreshing. Since you don't refresh IS during Eclipse, it will always be down when Eclipse ends, so you should refresh it immediately (I actually typically wind up casting it with ~1s left on the Eclipse buff). It will then then wear off just as the Eclipse ICD ends, so you can cast it once more right as you start to cast Wrath. You should essentially always have exactly 2 refreshes per Eclipse cycle, and roughly 80% uptime (28s for two casts, in a ~35s cycle).

Blackdns · 02/06/09, 8:16 PM

Mon 02 February
Wow Web Stats
5551 DPS
Thu 05 February
Wow Web Stats
5271 DPS
Since we dont have an paid WWS Acc, these are the 2 latest Kills.
I am to tired to write a few things down, sorry :x

Cashy · 02/06/09, 9:42 PM

Here are my WWS from last patchwerk kill

it's annoying as hell, as i am going with the proc's but still not getting the dps.

Trunderstruck · 02/07/09, 1:58 AM

I note that your raid spent over 3 minutes on killing him, which means that compared to most other WWS-reports here you spend more time without Bloodlust, treants and so on. The reason people like to compare Patchwerk stats is because it's such a short, intensive fight, which means "every little bit counts", and the more time spent without full compliment of buffs means you're falling further behind.

Hard to say any more than that unless you actually link the WWS instead of just provide a screenshot.

Ashaera · 02/07/09, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Trunderstruck

The reason people like to compare Patchwerk stats is because it's such a short, intensive fight, which means "every little bit counts"

No, just no. If there was a stand still & nuke fight that lasted 5+ mins then we would all be comparing that one. Patchwerk is a good measuring point because theres absolutely never any reason to move, its just 100% focus on running your rotation. It sucks that Patchwerk in its Woltk version only lasts 2½min as RNG plays a huge factor in such short fights - Loatheb without spores would be a much better measuring point for any class that doesnt work with aoe abilities, just incase Ulduar brings back real raiding then 4-5 min fights are whats interesting & not the 2 min zergs.

That being said moonkin dps is not affected very much by fight duration (unless they start lasting long enough to go oom), anything between 2½ & 10 minutes is not gonna affect my dps by more than 2-300 on average. Once you start reaching 2minutes the increased heroism uptime starts outperforming 2nd cast of treants though.

Trunderstruck · 02/07/09, 3:28 PM

It might be the best and most available fight to use as a benchmark right now, but I still don't like it, for the very reason you mention yourself.

Angelfire · 02/08/09, 3:54 AM

Hey guys, thought I'd post a Patchwrek of my own, now that I have somewhat decent gear.
Please have a look and tell me what you think, as my DPS was not amazing (I was having lots of issues with getting the correct Eclipse to proc, but I don't think this should matter much?):
Wow Web Stats

Boytaur · 02/08/09, 5:56 AM

Wow Web Stats

5K DPS. Looks like I forgot to cast Trees / Starfall the second time and probably have too many wrath casts.

Calaziar · 02/08/09, 10:28 AM

Just curious why we don't use , say, Razuvious as a benchmark for caster dps?

Ashaera · 02/08/09, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Calaziar

Just curious why we don't use , say, Razuvious as a benchmark for caster dps?

Because thats an even shorter fight.

Loatheb achievement style is good - Only means loosing out on Starfall which doesnt matter all that much.
Loatheb 0spores 4.15 - Ill repeat again, fight duration doesnt affect moonkin dps much unless you go below 2minutes.
Patchwerk 2.33 - Perfect RNG just till heroism landed & there Eclipse just refused to proc so my dps didnt climb above 6k (Was like 5.8k before Hero) - 32% crit on wrath. But oh well next week.

Numbers inflated by PI slave.

Kupeludo · 02/08/09, 11:26 AM

For one, chances are your shadow priest is mc'ing, which means you have to keep FF up.

Vidandric · 02/08/09, 12:25 PM

Not to mention random spell pushback from Jagged Knives or whatever its called

Stigg · 02/08/09, 1:05 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

IS refreshing should have nothing to do with MF refreshing. Since you don't refresh IS during Eclipse, it will always be down when Eclipse ends, so you should refresh it immediately (I actually typically wind up casting it with ~1s left on the Eclipse buff). It will then then wear off just as the Eclipse ICD ends, so you can cast it once more right as you start to cast Wrath. You should essentially always have exactly 2 refreshes per Eclipse cycle, and roughly 80% uptime (28s for two casts, in a ~35s cycle).

This one paragraph is one of the clearest explanations of dot refreshing I've seen.
I think that this will make a big difference for my rotation, and just wanted to highlight it in case it helps someone else.

• Hamlet · 02/08/09, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by Stigg

This one paragraph is one of the clearest explanations of dot refreshing I've seen.
I think that this will make a big difference for my rotation, and just wanted to highlight it in case it helps someone else.

Heh, thanks. I should note that I've talk to Adoriele about this some and I think he's going to use the 2-IS-per-cycle model in the next WC.

Moonfire is a bit trickier though. There are a few possibilities, assuming you don't refresh MF at all during an Eclipse:
1) 1 MF per cycle, right as Eclipse ends (right after you cast the first IS above). This gives one complete MF (24s) each cycle, for one GCD. The downtime is during Eclipse, however, which hurts a bit.
2) 2 MF's per cycle, essentially refreshed at the same time that you refresh IS. This clips the first one. 100% (very nearly) MF uptime, at the cost of 2 GCD's per cycle.

I haven't seen a detailed comparison yet.

For what it's worth, I think do a wierd thing which usually (1), but sometimes I refresh early during Eclipse if some procs have been slow. I should try watching more carefully.

An annoyance here is that it's really hard to practice the nuances of these things on a target dummy, as your crit rate is so much lower than in a raid.