Ashaera

Because thats an even shorter fight.

Loatheb achievement style is good - Only means loosing out on Starfall which doesnt matter all that much.
Loatheb 0spores 4.15 - Ill repeat again, fight duration doesnt affect moonkin dps much unless you go below 2minutes.
Patchwerk 2.33 - Perfect RNG just till heroism landed & there Eclipse just refused to proc so my dps didnt climb above 6k (Was like 5.8k before Hero) - 32% crit on wrath. But oh well next week.

Numbers inflated by PI slave.

 

Kupeludo

For one, chances are your shadow priest is mc'ing, which means you have to keep FF up.

 

Vidandric

Not to mention random spell pushback from Jagged Knives or whatever its called

 

Stigg

This one paragraph is one of the clearest explanations of dot refreshing I've seen.
I think that this will make a big difference for my rotation, and just wanted to highlight it in case it helps someone else.

 

• Arawethion

Heh, thanks. I should note that I've talk to Adoriele about this some and I think he's going to use the 2-IS-per-cycle model in the next WC.

Moonfire is a bit trickier though. There are a few possibilities, assuming you don't refresh MF at all during an Eclipse:
1) 1 MF per cycle, right as Eclipse ends (right after you cast the first IS above). This gives one complete MF (24s) each cycle, for one GCD. The downtime is during Eclipse, however, which hurts a bit.
2) 2 MF's per cycle, essentially refreshed at the same time that you refresh IS. This clips the first one. 100% (very nearly) MF uptime, at the cost of 2 GCD's per cycle.

I haven't seen a detailed comparison yet.

For what it's worth, I think do a wierd thing which usually (1), but sometimes I refresh early during Eclipse if some procs have been slow. I should try watching more carefully.

An annoyance here is that it's really hard to practice the nuances of these things on a target dummy, as your crit rate is so much lower than in a raid.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

polocabbit

So I finally broke the 5k mark, but it was due to a PI by a disc priest. I'm almost positive that I'm still missing something outside of the lucky RNG factor.

Wow Web Stats

There are a few times where I cast 1 or 2 wraths after a SF Eclispe and I got sloppy on a rotation and ended up procing a Wrath Eclipse also. I forgot to use Starfall as well, but from what I've gathered missing Starfall isn't too big of a deal.

I waited to use my speed potion during heroism, but I didn't use one right before the pull and I'm not sure if that would be much of a DPS boost. I saved treants for heroism, but we only had 1 warrior and he was doing Commanding Shout instead of battle because we were working towards the Immortal achievement.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

"Doubt is the thief that often makes us fear to tread where we might have won.” —William Shakespeare

 

myconoid

Ok, I'll bite and post my latest PW data: stasiscl

First time really coming close to 5k. I got lucky on Eclipse procs and it was a good fast kill. Also, shammies finally announced Heroism with enough time for me to drop Trents just in time. No special buffs or gifts from other classes.

Not 100% happy with my DPS yet, but have had crap for luck in terms of drops (no SF idol seen yet after 12 Raz kills..).

Anyways, not looking for tips, just wanted to share.

 

Vyshe

Just wanted to pop in and get a few opinions. I'm happy with my priorities in most situations, but there are four things I'd love some help deciding:

1. IS while under heroism. (when eclipse on CD)
2. spending a few secs wrathing when hero starts, to proc eclipse.
3. put 2 points in Owlkin Frenzy, Brambles or Imp.IS -.- Tried owlkin frenzy but that raid wasn't logged so didn't get any statistics on it, and from math posted on these forums, Brambles seem to win over Frenzy atleast(?) Do Brambles beat Imp.IS?
4. would it be better to use Mark of the War Prisoner than Dying Curse since I can time it with hero? Finally got to hit cap without it again, and thinking about getting the click trinket a try. Sorry if this is answered in the trinket thread.

Despite this I had a really good patch this week Wow Web Stats - 5.4k without PI or similar love from others. not too many wraths to proc stuff, and even got my treants out in time for hero. No BS on them though and didn't have brambles this run I think

ps. I'm resto at the time of posting so armory has no info. I'm usually in a standard full PVE Owl spec with Typhoon, Starfall, 2/2 Gale Winds, full imp.FF, no regen talents etc etc and 2 points floating around undecidedly:/

 

Ashaera

1. Its pretty close, allthough I would recommend not casting IS unless forced to move.
2. Its a gamble, but a risk that feels worth taking. Havnt done any calculations to back my claim up though.
3. Imp IS > brambles > Owl'Frenzy.
4. Dying Curse is a much better trinket than Mark of the Prisoner -- Owl damage is not that amazing during heroism.

 

Vyshe

Thanks a lot! I'll be putting my 2 stray points in imp.IS and not look back.

But I thought we did scale well with Hero? It always feels like a good heroism makes a lot of difference, with eclipse + haste pot and ~1s starfires raining out of the sky. I guess some classes scale even better, but is it really that bad by comparison?

Also, on trinkets: Besides wondering about the War Prisoner trinket, I planned on using my [Illustration of the Dragon Soul] and [Embrace of the Spider]. Am I better off sticking with [Dying Curse] over Embrace too? (617 haste atm, so 1100+ when Embrace procs - fun AoE atleast^^)

I might be putting too much faith in haste and heroism here, but I can't really see myself going actively for crit, and I already sit at 2.8k-2.9k spellpower fully raidbuffed with Dragon Soul + Embrace so there's nothing else to get but more cast time reduction..or is there? *dun dun duuuun*

 

thedopefishlives

Using my newly rewritten Rawr and its estimation of best-in-slot results in ~30% haste from gear, talents, and raid buffs, and an average sustainable DPS of roughly 5k. Heroism nearly doubles the effective haste, yet the gain from such an increase is only ~1k DPS. While that's an admirable increase, I don't doubt for a moment that other classes could probably see better returns. As for trinkets, while I haven't had a chance to prove my own math, my calculations show Illustration+Dying Curse are best-in-slot if you can use even a small fraction of the hit, while Embrace of the Spider takes the #2 spot if you are that far over the hit cap.

 

Ashaera

Using Wrathcalc I find it impossible to build an alliance 9% hit set that includes Dying Curse.
In order to use it I need to swap [Surplus Limb] into either [Accursed Spine] or [Matriarch's Spawn] & then im still only recieving 1.22% hit from [Dying Curse].

When I add my approximated values on [Dying Curse] & [Embrace of the Spider], I only need to utilize around 30-35% of the hasteproc to make my Embrace set better.

But if you can utilize the massive hit on [Dying Curse] then its a very strong trinket (probably even the better than IotDS), in terms of optimal 3.09 gear I just cant imagine a 9% hit set that utilizes enough of the hit to make it worthwhile.

 

thedopefishlives

If you're striving to hit exactly 9% hit, then yeah, it's hard to make it worthwhile. But the proc on Dying Curse is much stronger than the one on Embrace. My best-in-slot list has 9.23% hit and uses Matriarch's Spawn in the offhand rather than Accursed, so that may be part of it, but I do think that the stronger proc from the Curse makes it a stronger overall piece than the Embrace unless you're really over the hit cap.

 

Vyshe

Well, I landed at exactly 236 hit rating (with icewalker on boots), which is why I'm trying to figure out if it's worth dropping Dying Curse or not. My current gear is what I aimed for from the start, except for one item, so I'm trying hard to find ways to optimize it now. I recently sat down and tried to find a way to bypass the 4 set bonus to be able to pick up the head from maly but I couldn't get that right, and keeping tier pants didn't seem right either

So if I'm stacking too much haste (am I? ) would it be worth dropping, say, Wanton Spellcaster legs for Mortal Arrogance for +crit and a minor +sp gain and glue that Dying Curse in place?

btw, I know some value crit higher than I have, but I haven't seen any numbers on when crit > haste this time around. Is there an agreed upon number from the theorycrafters, or perhaps from extensive rawr modeling that I missed?^^

this is what I'm wearing atm:
[Valorous Dreamwalker Cover]
[Valorous Dreamwalker Mantle]
[Valorous Dreamwalker Vestments]
[Valorous Dreamwalker Gloves]
[Wyrmrest Necklace of Power]
[Pennant Cloak]
[Unsullied Cuffs]
[Leash of Heedless Magic]
[Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster]
[Sandals of Crimson Fury] (aiming to replace with [Footsteps of Malygos])
[Band of Channeled Magic]
[Signet of Manifested Pain]

[Torch of Holy Fire]
[Surplus Limb]
[Idol of the Shooting Star]

[Illustration of the Dragon Soul]
[Embrace of the Spider]

(sorry if I'm derailing this thread into yet another "what gear should I wear", but I'm getting some great info here so can't help myself)

 

Ashaera

Your list is equal to my wishlist pre-Ulduar Vyshe. Most of those items are very easy picks as theres no other alternative of the same ilvl.

@Delvalroy - Could you specify what items you are swapping & to what in your best-pre-ulduar list, would love to run some numbers to see if I agree or not.

 

thedopefishlives

I had the [Footsteps of Malygos] in for the feet, [Matriarch's Spawn] for the offhand, and [Dying Curse] for trinket #2. Other than that, I believe that's the exact list I had.

 

• Arawethion

Vyshe's list is precisely the dream setup I've been aiming towards since WLK raiding started. [Cincture of Polarity] is a notable alternative for Horde would like to be hitcapped without Icewalker (and even for other Horde, it's parallel to Leash).

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

thedopefishlives

After doing a little bit more playing around, I would like to retract my previous statements. I found a very slight (~10 DPS) upgrade by doing the following in the three slots in contention:
[Boots of Impetuous Ideals]
[Surplus Limb]
[Embrace of the Spider]

My apologies to those who kept saying I was wrong, because it appears that I was.

[EDIT] Oh, I should add: Best-in-slot neck is, far and away, [Cosmic Lights] off of Sapphiron. That's the other difference I had with the previous setup.

[EDIT2] I was wrong again. Rawr didn't add the Malygos neck to the item list for some reason. Manually adding and gemming it, putting it in the slot, and re-adding the [Footsteps of Malygos] produces yet another DPS increase.

 

• Arawethion

Cosmic Lights vs. Wrymrest neck is another one of those little bits of leeway you can use for hit-cap convenience, like Cincture vs. Leash. They're very, very close, so a person who's already gotten, say, Embrace, Wanton Spellcaster, and Leash can loot and use Wyrmrest without worrying about it too much.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

hevonlee

getting better numbers but not quite where I want to be. I imagine as I have read in other posts that if the fight were shorter my DPS would improve greatly. At any rate I was thrown into this boomkin as our regular guy left the guild and my main was mage that we had plenty of. So overall I'm giving my self a grade of B- considering I have only been doing this for 3 weeks.

PS - I also almost have my dream set complete Pownce

 

Beregon

@Cashy #19

Take a look at your % of damage from Starfire vs Wrath. With only 46% of your damage coming from Starfire it looks like you're still getting Wrath-Eclipse procs. Especially given the Starfire Idols, keeping that ratio high seems very important to maximizing DPS. Every WWS post I've seen over 5k is running 66-70+% of their damage from Starfire.

 

Venomex

Is it possible to get someone to look at this WMO parse and fill me in on what this boomkin in particular is doing wrong.

WoW Meter Online - The Best World of Warcraft Combat Log Analyse System!Fully support Wrath of the Lich King!

Armory is below

The World of Warcraft Armory

 

• Adoriele

< 80% time casting, less if he had WoA. Abysmal IS uptime. Completely ignored his Eclipse procs. Far over the hit cap, and is emphasizing Crit instead of haste, with really low Spellpower. He's using the SFF idol instead of the one from Razuvious.

 

Knoway

Here's tonight's Patchwerk kill, first time I've managed to break 5k. And since it's been mentioned a few times, here's Loatheb since we did the Spore Loser achievement tonight. I didn't pop Treants for fear of messing up our first time doing the achievement, and I also cut things too close and procced the wrong Eclipse twice, so I'd expect a noticeably higher number if I do the fight again.

I plugged my numbers for Patch into Adoriele's sheet (adjusting for giving a mage innervate + keeping IFF up), and it's coming back with 88.9% casting time with 70% IS uptime and 77% MF uptime. Looks like I need to work on keeping dots up.

Loatheb data shows 90.4% casting with 61% IS and 88.9% MF uptimes. Should I be concerned about IS being low?

 

Vyshe

I wouldn't worry about IS at least. If you're not refreshing it during eclipse, and not using it at all during hero (which I feel has been more or less confirmed as a sound strategy^^) then a low IS uptime is to be expected. Even more so for a short fight like Patch where hero time is a large part of the fight. MF uptime seems about as high as it gets, since what little downtime you had was probably mostly due to it falling off right as you start an SF, loosing ~1-2s or so per MF application. On a normal fight there could be some more time lost depending on what order you choose to refresh IS/FF and pop treants/starfall/innervate etc. No big numbers, but with fights <5mins every little thing shows. Gief marathon bosses in Ulduar

One question btw - if I end up accidentaly proccing the "wrong" eclipse - what do ppl usually do? I mostly end up keeping both IS and MF up during wrath eclipse and then switching back to SF, but I'm utterly lost during Hero+wrath eclipse and it's 50/50 if I keep IS or not. Any insight?;D