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02/17/09, 11:39 AM
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#151
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Galakrond
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Originally Posted by Protto
Now that Revitalize now effects Wild Growth, it might actually be worth looking at; I just can't figure out which talent points you would sacrifice, and if it is worth that sacrifice. I was thinking Tranquil Spirit or even Living Seed if you don't find yourself using Regrowth very often.
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The more I raid, the more I prefer Rejuvination to Regrowth to spending my extra mana and time not devoted to keeping a LB and a RJ up on the tank(s). I do still use Wild Growth, as well, when the Melee around the tank take an AoE or are generally all losing a bit of health - but is 'Revitalize' going to help Melee DPS and the tank that much? I cannot possibly come up with some crazy function that would tell me average potential DPS/point of rage,energy,runic power - but I do know that during an entire 10 Naxx i gained a whopping total of around 3,000 mana. I would have never missed it in the slightest, and all of the other casters received about the same amount. Because of the dull performance of 'Revitalize' and my waning use of Regrowth, I tried out the Celestial Focus build, taking one point out of my "Oh shi-!" macro intensifier Empowered Touch and I feel that it does a really good job at letting me spread my HoTs out more quickly and letting me use Nourish to greater benefit with my 4-set of t7.
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02/17/09, 12:26 PM
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#152
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Deathwing
Yes, stacking stamina will require you to be healed more, but it will also increase the efficiency of the people healing you, while at the same time giving them much more latitude. See: VW tanking 3 drake sarth with 78k HP.
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Except that its not the 78k health that makes a Voidwalker a viable MT on Sarth3D but that warlock pets Avoidance ability gives it a passive 80% damage reduction on AoE attacks such as his breaths.
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02/17/09, 1:18 PM
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#153
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Bald Bull
Orc Warrior
Black Dragonflight
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Originally Posted by Flavieb
Except that its not the 78k health that makes a Voidwalker a viable MT on Sarth3D but that warlock pets Avoidance ability gives it a passive 80% damage reduction on AoE attacks such as his breaths.
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It's a combination of both. The huge health pool balances all the extra incoming damage VW will take. Yes, I know the 80% AE reduction is the clinching point, but if he had HP comparable to regular tanks, it would be real fun to heal him.
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02/17/09, 2:45 PM
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#154
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Deathwing
It's a combination of both. The huge health pool balances all the extra incoming damage VW will take. Yes, I know the 80% AE reduction is the clinching point, but if he had HP comparable to regular tanks, it would be real fun to heal him.
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Yes, the VW is really nice to tank sarth3d if the warlock keeps it out of incoming flame waves.
Having the VW turn the wrong direction will cause sarth to breathe on the raid, causing an instant wipe. This is so annoying I think it balances out.
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02/18/09, 10:08 AM
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#155
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Dark Iron
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It appears that Innervate is not getting changed in terms of it's coefficient. However, it also appears that the overall nerf to mp5 out of the 5 second rule will not be nearly as bad as some people have been predicting.
In all honesty, I don't see this really changing any resto itemization for the most part(past the DMC: Blue Dragon becoming a much less desirable trinket).
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Originally Posted by ghostcrawler
If you mean these changes will nerf Innervate, yes, it will. On live Innervate can be 120% of your bar, say 25,000 mana. Historically it was more like 75% of your bar, and it should be closer to that with these changes
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Source: MMO-Champion BlueTracker - I don't get the regen nerfs...
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02/18/09, 8:13 PM
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#156
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Glass Joe
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So now that GC has posted some numbers, what will this mean for our healing in 3.1?

-- The amount of base mana regen granted has been reduced 40%. We called this "Spirit" in the notes, since most players associate OOFSR regen with Spirit, but in reality Int factors into the equation as well and we only lowered the constant, not the relative contributions of Int or Spirit. In retrospect, this probably caused more confusion than it alleviated, but mana regeneration is a fairly technical concept.
-- The effects of talents that provide mana regen while casting have been increased by 67%. This includes: Arcane Meditation, Improved Spirit Tap, Intensity, Mage Armor, Meditation, Pyromaniac, and Spirit Tap. For example, Intensity and Meditation are now 17/33/50% mana regen while casting (up from 10/20/30%). For most dps classes who never got much mana from OOFSR in the first place, the results should not be noticeable. Boomkin may be a possible exception because of Innervate, and we'll take a look at that.
-- This should leave mana regeneration while casting (even the contribution of Spirit) relatively unchanged, but reduce mana regeneration while not casting by 40%. (If you don't understand our logic, I suggest you re-read the excellent post I quoted above.)
-- Since paladins don't rely on any of those abilities for mana regeneration, we lowered the healing penalty of Divine Plea to -50%. We are also likely to make Spiritual Attunement provide less mana for non-tanking paladins. We are not touching Illumination for the moment. Nor are we lowering the effects of Replenishment (though as I have suggested, it would be our likely next target if we aren't happy with the results of these changes).
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World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> I don't get the regen nerfs...
I'm still new to analysis but the way I see it, I will essentially be chain-chugging water between fights. I hadn't gotten into any OO5SR regen dancing. As it stands I don't even need to use Innervate in 25 man Naxx, which I feel means I'm not healing ENOUGH, but just how viable is spamming Regrowth when the other healers can pull almost 600 HPS more than you can? (I'm new to a top alliance guild on Bael'Gun so I know I'll get outhealed but yeah).
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02/19/09, 5:50 AM
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#157
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Drashian
We're not quite to that point. Along the same lines as AP vs armor in my last post, while every feral-relevant stat except armor penetration and stamina gives some amount of mitigation in 3.1, none of the are major enough to gem for. In fact Savage Defense boosts agility even higher as the best mitigation stat for us to gem for, because it affects both dodge and "block" now.
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If you're refering to the crit rate added by agility as "block", that's a hard sell to make. A strength gem will consistently provide an extra ~8 damage absorbed, while an agility gem will only increase the chance of proc'ing a shield by ~0.2%. To me, it seem's like the age old discussion of dodge vs. hp. One is reliable survivability and the other isn't (i'm obviously in the HP camp).
I wouldn't be surprised if str/stam overtakes agi/stam as the "best" gem when you dont consider color/set bonuses.
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02/19/09, 6:16 AM
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#158
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Celeras
If you're refering to the crit rate added by agility as "block", that's a hard sell to make. A strength gem will consistently provide an extra ~8 damage absorbed, while an agility gem will only increase the chance of proc'ing a shield by ~0.2%. To me, it seem's like the age old discussion of dodge vs. hp. One is reliable survivability and the other isn't (i'm obviously in the HP camp).
I wouldn't be surprised if str/stam overtakes agi/stam as the "best" gem when you dont consider color/set bonuses.
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He said it boosts it higher. The armor and dodge that agility provides already makes it the best avoidance stat. The added dodge and armor alone will make the shield stronger (higher dodge -> less chance boss takes down the old shield, more armor -> more dmg reduced). On top of that, agility also boosts crit rate. That's just an added perk. 8 damage is nothing when patchwerk-25 hits you for avg 16k. Even a 0.05% added dodge rate would be better if the shield had a 100% uptime.
However, STR gems might replace expertise gems for threat (since the block might be better than avoiding parry-haste).
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02/19/09, 7:33 AM
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#159
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Druid
Runetotem (EU)
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Originally Posted by halmmar
However, STR gems might replace expertise gems for threat (since the block might be better than avoiding parry-haste).
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It's not. Avoiding parry-haste is better than block. Also expertise increase your chance to hit and then your crit (for 2-roll system) and consequently shield up-time.
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02/19/09, 1:00 PM
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#160
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Bald Bull
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It's not. Avoiding parry-haste is better than block. Also expertise increase your chance to hit and then your crit (for 2-roll system) and consequently shield up-time.
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This assumes the majority of the bosses can be parry-hasted in the first place, which is decidedly not the case currently. It also assumes the majority of the bosses will be doing primarily physical damage. If Ulduar is more focused on magic damage (like the hard bosses of T7 were) strength/stam will definitely be better than exp/stam.
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02/20/09, 5:11 AM
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#161
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Druid
Runetotem (EU)
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Originally Posted by kalbear
This assumes the majority of the bosses can be parry-hasted in the first place, which is decidedly not the case currently. It also assumes the majority of the bosses will be doing primarily physical damage. If Ulduar is more focused on magic damage (like the hard bosses of T7 were) strength/stam will definitely be better than exp/stam.
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Atm only faerlina and Patch don't have parry-haste and I don't remember bosses where magical mitigation overcame phisical one (if you suppose to do Saph with FR and KT with interrupts). For istance every time I don't tank Maly and one of our tank dies is because he have taken 2 parryhasted attack, the same holds true for sarth.
As for Ulduar I expect it will be far more focused on tank-phisical damage than magical damage than now, simply because otherwise druids and dks will have too much easier life than paladins and warriors, and I think it's something Blizzard wants to avoid.
Edit: Expertise is also a far better threat stats than Str.
Edit2: Yes, we will see a day when we will gem for Str our tanking kit. Actually I'm expertise hard capped and I have 54% avoidance in a raid environment, so yes probably when we will be expertise capped and we will have around 60-65% avoidance, str will start to be a better stats, but only because we will have enough agi/dodge and expertise per se.
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02/20/09, 5:57 AM
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#162
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King Hippo
Tauren Druid
Twisting Nether (EU)
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Originally Posted by nightcrowler
As for Ulduar I expect it will be far more focused on tank-phisical damage than magical damage than now, simply because otherwise druids and dks will have too much easier life than paladins and warriors, and I think it's something Blizzard wants to avoid.
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Erm, how do you infer that encounters will be mainly physical from a mistaken impression that magical damage benefits Druids/DKs more than Warrior/Paladins? Where do Druids get this awesome magical damage tanking ability from? Massive stamina? You're not making sense.
You may as well say that Ulduar bosses will be mainly physical damage simply because it'll be full of golems and giants, at least that might be more accurate.
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02/20/09, 6:31 AM
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#163
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Druid
Runetotem (EU)
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Originally Posted by Daboran
Erm, how do you infer that encounters will be mainly physical from a mistaken impression that magical damage benefits Druids/DKs more than Warrior/Paladins? Where do Druids get this awesome magical damage tanking ability from? Massive stamina? You're not making sense.
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For DKs I don't think I need to explain.
For Druids, we have more stamina (and we know how much it's important, look at Sarth 3D tanking for example). But we also have more magical mitigation due to:
Savage defender
Barkskin (shield block works only on phisical damage)
Protector of the Pack (12% magical mitigation, warriors have 6%, paladins have none).
A druid takes 20%*12/60 = 4% less magical damage on average due to barkskin + 6% less damage than a warrior from PoP = 10% less magical damage than a warrior and 16% less magical damage than a paladin without counting the new savage defender. Also the magical burst are easyier to heal due to more HP (6-7K more than a similar level warrrior usually).
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02/20/09, 7:02 AM
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#164
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Don Flamenco
Tauren Druid
Neptulon (EU)
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Just a quick correction - for spell damage reduction, paladins have at least 6% (improved righteous fury, not sure if anything else affects it) and Warriors have 16% (defensive stance is 10%, improved defensive changes that to 16%).
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02/20/09, 7:32 AM
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#165
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Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Gorgonnash (EU)
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Originally Posted by nightcrowler
A druid takes 20%*12/60 = 4% less magical damage on average due to barkskin + 6% less damage than a warrior from PoP = 10% less magical damage than a warrior and 16% less magical damage than a paladin without counting the new savage defender.
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Warriors DO have defensive stance, which is a flat 10% damage reduction. On top of that comes imp. defensive stance, which makes it 16% (or rather, 1.1*1.06 = 1.166 = 16.6%).
E: beaten.
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