Druid Changes Patch 3.1 - Page 25

Kalaya · 03/02/09, 1:29 AM

Originally Posted by Insertname

does anyone know what the new value of the LB bloom should be after the new changes? The patch notes seem to imply that the bloom will be multiplied by the number of stacks. Here is the quote: "and the heal effect is multiplied by the number of applications". Wowwiki states that the bloom value should be enhanced by 64.6% of your spell power. Assuming that the wiki is correct (don't know that for a fact, first time I've paid attention to the bloom calculation) then at 1800 SP the bloom should be 1800*.646 + 970 (the basic bloom value) = 2132. Therefore if the blooms are multiplied by the number of stacks, the bloom for a 3 stack would be 6398. However, when I try this on the PTR, I get a bloom of 2905 with three stacks. When I try it with 0 SP/feral talents I get a bloom of 970. So it would appear that the Bloom is currently not multiplied by the number of stacks as the PTR notes seem to suggest. If that is the case and it is intended then even letting it bloom would not be very beneficial. Unfortunately I can't test the current bloom value on live as I just re-specced feral. am I simply not looking at this correctly? this is my first time looking at numbers more closely so apologies if I am off.

This change hasn't made it to the PTR yet afaik

Neone · 03/02/09, 1:31 AM

Originally Posted by Xavias

Thats pretty much all it does. What does concern me though is that this change could cause LB to be used even more than before (ie taking up more GCD's), which goes against what Blizzard want with Druid healing (diversified heals). This change could force more pigeonholing of LB because instead of casting LB once every few seconds, you will now be casting it 3 times, than casting it 3 times, than casting it 3 times etc etc. I liked that I could roll a 3-stack LB on a tank or two, and have the GCDs to do other things in between.

I think the main point with this change is to get you to only roll on the targets that need it... for the raid a RG-Rejuv/Lb is probably going to be a good strat

david0925 · 03/02/09, 1:48 AM

Originally Posted by Neone

I think the main point with this change is to get you to only roll on the targets that need it... for the raid a RG-Rejuv/Lb is probably going to be a good strat

I think the main point is giving lifebloom more viability in pvp while not make it a target for cryfest like it had was in TBC. It'll still not be the best idea, assuming you have a good balance of healers in a 25 man, to raid heal as a druid.

kalbear · 03/02/09, 2:13 AM

So i have a question the changes on Imp MoTW states. "and increases your total attributes by1%/2%"

is this effect just for the druid or for everyone you cast Imp MoTW on.

What im getting at here is would this be worth picking up for feral dps 2% total attributes plus the SoTF talent 6%.

I tested it personally, and it is indeed 2% overall to your stats, not to those you cast on.

tlbj6142 · 03/02/09, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by kalbear

I tested it personally, and it is indeed 2% overall to your stats, not to those you cast on.

This explains the extra dodge/crit I see on Live vs PTR. Now that I look at the tooltip, it is obvious that 2/2 iMotW is basically required for all Druids. Though many already pick it without much issue, which is probably why Blizzard decided to buff that talent. So, does this make the HotW nerf a bit less of a nerf? -10% sta on HotW, but +2% sta from iMotW

Candela · 03/02/09, 7:25 PM

Originally Posted by tlbj6142

This explains the extra dodge/crit I see on Live vs PTR. Now that I look at the tooltip, it is obvious that 2/2 iMotW is basically required for all Druids. Though many already pick it without much issue, which is probably why Blizzard decided to buff that talent. So, does this make the HotW nerf a bit less of a nerf? -10% sta on HotW, but +2% sta from iMotW

They should rather remove the tank leather and make us tank in dps leather, like they intended us to... then HotW wouldnt need a nerf at all.

It is (1.02*1.1*1.25)/(1.2*1.25) = 0.935 of the stamina in bear form now compared to live, so a 6.5% loss while gaining 2% agility and strength

nightcrowler · 03/02/09, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Candela

They should rather remove the tank leather and make us tank in dps leather, like they intended us to... t

Tanking lether doesn't exist
Obviosly there are lether more suited for tanking.

fr0d0b0ls0n · 03/03/09, 2:15 AM

We still need different gems/enchants in many slots so we can share equip for Tanking/DPS for MT duty.

I'll love if Blizzard added different enchants to an item with a talent spec change.

Candela · 03/03/09, 7:38 AM

Originally Posted by nightcrowler

Tanking lether doesn't exist
Obviosly there are lether more suited for tanking.

I would call leather items which are made with the intention to be used by bear tanks, and which are by far not the best choice at the same item level for a dps, tank leather.

I don't care if you call it "leather more suited for tanking", it is the same in the end.

Like Boots of Captain Ellis. Or Sharp-Barbed Leather Belt.

If they would change the "leather more suited for tanking" to the same stamina as the "leather more suited for dpsing" and increase the other stats instead, bears would have less stamina already.

Just as an example, taking down the heroic T7 feral set + the both items mentioned above to the stamina level of T7 rogue and "leather more suited for dpsing" items, would lower the base stamina granted by the items from 626 to 517, taking away 109 base stamina, or 109*1.06*1.20*1.25 = ~173 = 1730 hp from a bear, with BoK 1900 hp even.

And this wouldn't make us scale worse with gear than we scale now, like the HotW nerf will do.

nightcrowler · 03/03/09, 7:52 AM

but they want us to scale worst with stamina then we scale now. That's the problem and the solution is not that bad. We will see 2-2.5k less hp on average in our current high end gear. Nothing special.

Candela · 03/03/09, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by nightcrowler

but they want us to scale worst with stamina then we scale now. That's the problem and the solution is not that bad. We will see 2-2.5k less hp on average in our current high end gear. Nothing special.

so is there anything left that we scale "good" with?

dodge has received diminishing returns.

agility->dodge conversion has been nerfed and a flat +dodge% talent was added instead. this might even be a buff at lower content, but past a certain point of gear it makes us scale worse.

armor has been lowered, lowered again, and yet again (granted, we got PotP and will get SD in return).

the main flaw that i see with SD is that compared to block it is on a per "doing-hit"-base instead of a "getting-hit"-base. the faster u hit, the better, thats clear. but the faster the attacker hits, the worse. whenever you can't hit, it's useless. and as soon as you have more than 1 attacker on you the usefulness goes away as well, at a terrible rate.

i've done some uptime calculations for a single attacker, might post them later.

TheNameLessOne · 03/03/09, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by nightcrowler

but they want us to scale worst with stamina then we scale now. That's the problem and the solution is not that bad. We will see 2-2.5k less hp on average in our current high end gear. Nothing special.

"high end" gear generally includes crud like the polar vest and other overly stam heavy items. Outside of threat there isn't any real penalty for using that gear. That's the fundamental problem with druid tanks, they are very poorly designed and still do not actually want rogue gear. Constraining a class by bad itemization doesn't work, all it takes is one or two slip ups to break the bank which is what happened. Now it is debatable whether or not SD (when ever it shows up) finally does enough to actually make druids want rogue gear and punishes them for using polar stuff.

Malazaar · 03/03/09, 1:00 PM

Originally Posted by TheNameLessOne

"high end" gear generally includes crud like the polar vest and other overly stam heavy items. Outside of threat there isn't any real penalty for using that gear. That's the fundamental problem with druid tanks, they are very poorly designed and still do not actually want rogue gear. Constraining a class by bad itemization doesn't work, all it takes is one or two slip ups to break the bank which is what happened. Now it is debatable whether or not SD (when ever it shows up) finally does enough to actually make druids want rogue gear and punishes them for using polar stuff.

No, the way SD works now (theoretically of course) it won't make us take rogue gear, if you have the choice between 20 AP and 1 stamina, 1 stamina will in almost all cases be better for tanking.

Garanthir · 03/03/09, 1:20 PM

I think the reason stam stacking Druids see no "punishment" while tanking comes down to 2 things. Threat and healer mana. If threat was actually an issue then all the full 24 stam gem polar set wearing Druids would have a much harder time tanking. If healer mana ever becomes an issue that would also highlight high stam low avoidance "sponge" gear sets.

I am so glad the Premonition Patchwerk tank tests included a Druid geared for Agi/Dodge. If nothing else it highlights to the masses that Druid tanks do not have to stack stam at the expense of everything else.

Boevis · 03/03/09, 2:51 PM

Really? because it looks to me like Druids should, since the druid in their test was the 2nd worst tank in the lot by their numbers (Lowest AVD, 2nd Highest DTPS, and 2nd shortest lifespan. Perhaps if the druid gemmed for Stam and actually had a normal-for-druids amount of HP instead of being horribly low, his TTL may have been better.