Druid Changes Patch 3.1 - Page 30

Pater · 03/06/09, 8:46 PM

Just to confirm -- it does not stack, right?

Focusin · 03/06/09, 8:56 PM

Adoriele, under the certain haste amount, would you say the new rotation would look something like this?

|------PreEclipse------|------Eclipse------|-----------EclipseICD----------|
|------IS-MF-SF*x----|-------W*x-------|---IS&MF(as needed), W*x---|

I find it interesting that, under that haste level, Wrath would become the go-to spell during the EclipseICD- I would think that Starfire would remain the spell to use, since the NG change would seem to benefit Starfire more. Maybe I'm not factoring something in.

Thaeryn · 03/06/09, 9:04 PM

Originally Posted by Pater

Just to confirm -- it does not stack, right?

Correct. Only one iteration of the buff at any one time.

seminarca · 03/06/09, 9:07 PM

Originally Posted by Pater

Just to confirm -- it does not stack, right?

Confirmed that it doesn't stack, but the duration gets refreshed if you proc it again while an old one is still active. Doesn't proc off FFF crits.

edit: Does NOT proc off Lacerate DoT crits, but does proc off crits of the initial application damage.

Cuer · 03/06/09, 9:07 PM

Apart from the ArP change mentioned above, there's another cat DPS stat change:

* Haste Rating: Shamans, Paladins, Druids, and Death Knights now receive 30% more melee haste from Haste Rating.

spiritryu · 03/06/09, 9:25 PM

with the change to Nature's Grace and the shortened CD to Starfall, it sounds like the Glyph of Starfall could be a useful glyph over Insect Swarm. Pretty much a 1min CD passive damage and permanent Nature's Grace. Sounds pretty awesome.

• Adoriele · 03/06/09, 9:30 PM

Originally Posted by Focusin

Adoriele, under the certain haste amount, would you say the new rotation would look something like this?

|------PreEclipse------|------Eclipse------|-----------EclipseICD----------|
|------IS-MF-SF*x----|-------W*x-------|---IS&MF(as needed), W*x---|

I find it interesting that, under that haste level, Wrath would become the go-to spell during the EclipseICD- I would think that Starfire would remain the spell to use, since the NG change would seem to benefit Starfire more. Maybe I'm not factoring something in.

The big issue is that you'll get 3 Wraths per NG, but only 2 SFs. This skyrockets NG's uptime, to the point where it's almost constant. Your rotation for low amounts of haste is correct.

Kelrden · 03/06/09, 9:46 PM

From the patch notes thread on PTR forum

* Insect Swarm: The bonus damage from spellpower on this damage over time ability has been increased significantly to
match similar spells on other classes.

Thaeryn · 03/06/09, 10:02 PM

From a bug post on the US PTR forum: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [BUG] Savage Defense - Technical Flaw

Savage Defense says it affects the next attack, but if 2 or more attacks are received close enough to each other the reduction from a single proc will apply to both.

I can guess the technical reason behind this. The same issue applies to a Warrior's Spell Reflect. But the result in this case is that a Druid's mitigation against multiple mobs will likely be highly dependent on server conditions.

Batguus · 03/06/09, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by Crucial288

Eclipse now gives you a 33% chance of increasing damage done by Wrath by 30% (up from 20%) when you critically hit with Starfire.

Hm, with this and the Nature's Grace change, would wrath eclipse be possibly better?
And if not, any idea by how much is the increase, and how much has the DPS gap gotten smaller by?

I just tried to do some test runs on a dummy but the lag (500+ ms) made it pretty much impossible to get reliable data.

However, on the Nature's Grace change, to put it in concrete terms,
With 619 haste, in moonkin form Im getting:

Live:
Starfire from 2,38 -> 1,98 sec
Wrath from 1,19 -> 0,793 sec

PTR:
Starfire from 2,38 -> 1,98 sec (Oo)
Wrath from 1,19 -> 0,991 sec

mhenrique85 · 03/06/09, 10:15 PM

So, I think for moonkin it ll be better to take soft haste cap for wrath, i think will be 17% haste, then focus on crit??

Wrath -> 1,5x0,83x0,8 = 0,996 ~= 1 seg cast time

we have 5% haste from talents, and 5% haste from totem...

im siting now at 21% haste buffed for raids, what do you guys think, seen that this 4% will be a waste when NG procs for wrath, that i should try to trade this haste for crit, to force more procs??

Crucial288 · 03/06/09, 10:34 PM

From what Im seeing so far testing the 2 different eclipse rotations (each one with the respective idol)
Im getting numbers highly favouring the old rotation, by an amount of up to 600 DPS in favour of the SF rotation.

With my decent but not quite best-in-slot gear I was getting from 3.5k to 4k self buffed on a boss dummy
(which is a lot higher than I get on live, btw) and only 3.1-3.4 with the wrath rotation.

Also, with the wrath rotations the amount of time tested per mana pool is a lot shorter due to the high mana cost,
I guess this wont be a problem in a 25 man, but also the numbers can change a lot in the raids due to much higher crit and haste.

Edit: Might be worth mentioning I didnt use treants nor starfall during any of the tests, the lag is pretty tough to handle so results are not as accurate, and I have much more 'feel' for the SF rotation, so my wrath rotation might not be exactly optimal.

• Adoriele · 03/06/09, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by Batguus

Live:
Starfire from 2,38 -> 1,98 sec
Wrath from 1,19 -> 0,793 sec

PTR:
Starfire from 2,38 -> 1,98 sec (Oo)
Wrath from 1,19 -> 0,991 sec

The Starfire number is correct. 20% haste on SF's base cast time is equal to .5s. All haste sources are mulitiplicative.

Originally Posted by mhenrique85

So, I think for moonkin it ll be better to take soft haste cap for wrath, i think will be 17% haste, then focus on crit??

Wrath -> 1,5x0,83x0,8 = 0,996 ~= 1 seg cast time

we have 5% haste from talents, and 5% haste from totem...

im siting now at 21% haste buffed for raids, what do you guys think, seen that this 4% will be a waste when NG procs for wrath, that i should try to trade this haste for crit, to force more procs??

Your numbers are a bit off, we have 1.03*1.03*1.05 haste from talents and buffs, multiplying the result by 1.2 results in the breakpoint at ~12% haste from gear. Not sure about whether to switch to crit at that point, I remember seeing crit and hit being equal weight in WC, but I don't remember the conditions for that point, namely which side of the breakpoint I was on.

mallhoof · 03/06/09, 10:50 PM

what about the talent trees? Does the spec change any due to IS buff, FF and FFF increased duration (picking up imp FF for the crit bonus), and starfall being buffed from the cooldown? And with the changes to mana regen is intensity or dreamstate the clear front runner? Is owlkin frenzy that much better by adding magic damage to it?

• Hamlet · 03/06/09, 11:08 PM

What's the haste breakpoint where non-Bloodlust NG'd Wrath hits 1s? ( . . . yeah I'm feeling lazy and you've probably computed it already).

It looks to me like Solar Eclipses will be significantly better so long as NG-Wrath remains over 1s, for reasons I posted in the BB. So that lines up with your TC so far. But why the sudden breakpoint as soon as you hit 1s? All that happens there is that haste stops being beneficial on some of your Wraths--it seems it would take a little bit for Lunar cycles to become better again, especially if you start tuning gear around the changed haste value.

Or is it simply that the interference with spell queueing when you dip below 1s destroys the whole cycle?

Random thought: what does this all mean for Embrace of the Spider?