Druid Changes Patch 3.1 - Page 31

Beregon · 04/15/09, 6:16 PM

Maybe I missed this somewhere, but do buffs cast in one spec go away when switching to another?

Otherwise, looking at the above discussion about picking up Brambles: Would it make sense to pick up Brambles (losing probably Nature's Grace) in my Resto spec and cast thorns on the tank while buffing?

tbsp · 04/15/09, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by Beregon

Maybe I missed this somewhere, but do buffs cast in one spec go away when switching to another?

I have imp:motw in both of my specs. If I buff the raid with GotW, and switch specs, they all lose GotW. I would expect the same to happen with thorns (though I haven't tested it).

antwon87 · 04/15/09, 6:57 PM

I tested thorns with dropping brambles. If I cast thorns while specced into brambles then change to a spec without brambles I lose the bonus damage from brambles.

Roanna · 04/15/09, 7:31 PM

Just a quick question. Is there a bug with bear form armoror our talents, as I went from 36043 pre- 3.1 to 46115 post 3.1 buffed only with improved GoTW?

kalbear · 04/15/09, 9:03 PM

Just a quick question. Is there a bug with bear form armoror our talents, as I went from 36043 pre- 3.1 to 46115 post 3.1 buffed only with improved GoTW?

That's usually a bug in how character copying works, and has to do with logging out in bear form. The quick solution is to die; you'll remove that extra armor.

Spink · 04/15/09, 9:16 PM

Several other classes have been noticing similar things, ie. my paladin alt logged out in crusader aura and I switched to ret aura and I was still benefitting from both. DKs in frost presence were experiencing similar things I believe.

Hyrim · 04/16/09, 2:58 PM

When switching from a spec with full Heart of the Wild to 4/5, I did not lose the extra health - until I shifted out of, and back into Bear form.

Edit - This seems fixed now.

Woodlum · 04/16/09, 8:55 PM

Originally Posted by Erdluf

That delta seems too low. Multiple sources have reported 6.6% scaling (untalented). If you were getting only 5% = 10/200 (talented), you would need something like 6000 SP to get your thorns up to 417 damage.

Assuming (plausible, not tested) that the thorns you cast on others benefits from Master Shapeshifter, Brambles, and the personal benefit from E&M, damage would be

(73+0.066*SP)*1.04*1.75*1.03

and you would hit 417 damage at around 2264 SP. But at that point, adding 200 more SP should add another 24 or 25 to thorns damage.

While the delta seems low, those are the physical numbers that were produced and the specific circumstances detailed in my test case, for what it was worth. I didn't misread the combat log, those are the results. The noted SP total, 2264, was ballpark close to my number for the 417 produced, which you came around to after some assumptions. E&M was a non-factor because I used a normal white attack, which was noted. The test method is very simple and clear, you are probably similarly geared by my estimate and could produce the same results in real time with the OP for guidance. Please verify.

Erdluf · 04/17/09, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Woodlum

While the delta seems low, those are the physical numbers that were produced and the specific circumstances detailed in my test case, for what it was worth. I didn't misread the combat log, those are the results. The noted SP total, 2264, was ballpark close to my number for the 417 produced, which you came around to after some assumptions. E&M was a non-factor because I used a normal white attack, which was noted. The test method is very simple and clear, you are probably similarly geared by my estimate and could produce the same results in real time with the OP for guidance. Please verify.

I can't explain that result. Perhaps blizz reduces the benefit of "transient" spellpower when applied to a long-term buff?

My test results ("tank" was a friendly elite in Icecrown)

Thorns I cast on tank benefit from my SP and Brambles at the time of the cast. He does not benefit from my E&M (3% personnal) or MSS. It doesn't matter if I change spellpower or respec after the cast. My spellpower changes were from gear/form changes, not from trinket procs.

Tested at 1402 and 1909 SP (thorns 290, 348/349): My thorns on tank do (73 + SP*0.066)*1.75

Damage from self-cast thorns depends on my talents at the time I am hit. If I cast thorns in Moonkin, and am in Moonkin when hit, I benefit from Brambles, E&M, and MSS: (73 + SP*.066)*1.75*1.04*1.03.

I did one test where I cast thorns in Moonkin (1402 SP), switched to resto (1218 SP) and my thorns did 166 damage.
166 = 73 + .066*1402
which reflects my SP at the time of the cast, but my lack of talents at the time of the hit.

Vyshe · 04/17/09, 11:57 AM

I'm a bit confused about thorns/brambles right now. I probably missed something obvious.

Last night I took 2/3 brambles and kept thorns up on all of our 3 tanks in Ulduar for bosses, 2 Warriors, 1 Bear. How come the Bear tank has overall higher thorns hits according to meters? What do Bears have that increases thorns damage?

sample numbers (min < avg < max) from wws:

Razorscale: (thorns applied with ~3300 SP, stacked IDS + DC proc)
bear: 422 < 476 < 550
war#1: 402 < 439 < 476
war#2: 401 < 427 < 454

Iron Council: (thorns applied with ~2550 SP)
bear: 336 < 405 < 484
war#1: 274 < 349 < 464
war#2: 274 < 347 < 540 (high max probably due to tanking in a power rune briefly?)

Erdluf · 04/17/09, 12:25 PM

Vyshe,

If your bear tanks the "skull", his target would have almost 100% uptime on E&M, while the other tanks might not see E&M until later. I don't know the Ulduar fights, so I don't know if this is applicable.

I would expect KotJ+Beserk might increase Thorns damage (emphasis on 'max' rather than 'ave'). I don't know if Warriors use something similar.

I suppose it is possible that either Naturalist or Bear-form MSS is affecting Thorns, but from the talent descriptions it doesn't look like they should.

Garanthir · 04/17/09, 1:03 PM

Originally Posted by Vyshe

I'm a bit confused about thorns/brambles right now. I probably missed something obvious.

Last night I took 2/3 brambles and kept thorns up on all of our 3 tanks in Ulduar for bosses, 2 Warriors, 1 Bear. How come the Bear tank has overall higher thorns hits according to meters? What do Bears have that increases thorns damage?

sample numbers (min < avg < max) from wws:

Razorscale: (thorns applied with ~3300 SP, stacked IDS + DC proc)
bear: 422 < 476 < 550
war#1: 402 < 439 < 476
war#2: 401 < 427 < 454

Iron Council: (thorns applied with ~2550 SP)
bear: 336 < 405 < 484
war#1: 274 < 349 < 464
war#2: 274 < 347 < 540 (high max probably due to tanking in a power rune briefly?)

Vyshe, I was looking over our guild's WMO report and saw the same patterns. What's interesting is that our Paladin was higher than me. The Miss % is also interesting. I need to find out the other two tanks stats, I know I gave up a bit of Hit and Expertise for Agi and Stam going in to Ulduar. I should also note I did not have MSS, I was running a "standard" 60/11 tank build.

From Razorscale.

Class	Dmg	Land	Percent	Hits	Avg	Miss
						
Warrior	24,337	69	4%	68	357	1.40%
Druid	41,632	111	5%	108	385	2.70%
Paladin	38,388	99	4%	94	408	5.00%